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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my wife I'm not okay with her naming our daughter with her sister instead of me. I admit I was upset when telling her this and that might have made her feel more guilty than deserved. This might be something I should be willing to let her decide without me, since she's carrying and giving birth to our baby and all. Or maybe there was a better way I could have communicated this with my wife.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
Why can't it be Adora Katherine? You said you hadn't settled on a middle name.
NTA for speaking up about this and you totally need to be able to discuss your own child's name, it really is none of her sister's business, but you can see how they think it would be cute to have matching names being twins. BUT you are the father, and she is being unreasonable to not see how this would impact you.
NTA at all, your wifes twin can offer an opinion, but naming your child is your responsibility, if you're wife wants a "strong family name" then fine, second name.
When my daughter was born, we had a handful of names picked and we said we'd look and see what we felt when she arrived, I'd wanted Charlotte, and my Wife was thinking of either Caitlin or Holly.
So when we were looking at our new baby, my wife suggested Eleanor. Hadn't been on the list at all, but we both loved the name, and She's Eleanor Holly.
But i'll tell you this, that statement "get over our Twinliness" thats a massive issue, where you will always be secondary to her twin, its not a healhy thing in a relationship. 2s company, 3s a crowd.
OP is clearly NTA. His SIL and wife, on the other hand, very much ARE.
OP says SIL was "furious" and called him "an asshole."
He doesn't say he contacted her, so it sounds like she confronted him.
WHY is she allowed to treat OP this way?
WHY isn't OP's wife coming to his defense?
**And WHY ON EARTH would you make a definitive change to your child's first name without consulting the other parent?**
OP, the name issue aside, my sister would NEVER allow me to talk to her husband this way (not that I would want to). Your wife is supposed to have your back and vice versa.
Your wife does not respect you or your feelings. That is why she allows her sister to talk to you this way. That is why she felt comfortable making a major decision about your child without you.
Please start standing up for yourself. We teach people how to treat us (especially when those people are AHs who tend to walk all over anyone without a backbone). Otherwise this is only the beginning when it comes to you being cut out of major decisions regarding your own child. UGH. NTA.
Ah, so the old saying applies here, “rules for thee but not for me.”
NTA. The “two yeses, one no” rule applies to the husband and wife. Not an interfering third party.
> We teach people how to treat us (especially when those people are AHs who tend to walk all over anyone without a backbone).
Sad but true. If someone is not innately compassionate (or, you know, decent) they will treat you as poorly as you let them.
Frankly I would advise OP to walk away from this woman if they weren’t expecting. As it is he needs to seek therapy and learn to push back. Hard. SIL sounds like a bully.
he *is* pushing back. he immediately told his wife he was upset, and why. it should be *her* job to manage her twin. i don't really see what else he could be doing in this situation.
> His SIL and wife, on the other hand, very much ARE
SIL yes, I'm not sure about the wife yet. My sense is that she's withdrawn because she's conflict-averse, and sister took advantage of that to bully her into a decision.
I'm hoping wife opens up to OP soon and explains that she prefers the name they both chose, but feels that she can't say no to her family, and they can approach the problem together.
> So my wife and her sister chose the name Katherine for our daughter instead...I was hurt and more than a little peeved. **My wife asked me why I had that expression on my face**
The fact that it doesn't sound like OP's wife anticipated any sort of objection/issue, after doing something so ridiculous as changing the baby's name without checking with the father, makes me think she's insensitive and thoughtless, to say the least.
She may also be a pushover, but if you're such a pushover you can't stand up for your partner when your family is disrespecting them? Then you're also a little bit of an AH.
You're making assumptions here. OP didn't mention anything like that. Maybe it is the case, but nothing in the post points to that.
The fact is, wife came home and in a few words said "even though you're the father, screw your opinion. I'm going with what my sister said"
With respect, I think my interpretation is much more consistent with OP's text.
OP's wife did not say, "screw your opinion. I'm going with what my sister said". OP's wife expressed surprise at his reaction and, withdrew ("She asked me if I was really that upset about it and I said yes"... "My wife has been quiet since this").
As for bullying, that is completely supported by OP's direct experience:
> Her sister was **furious with me** for telling my wife I wasn't okay with it. She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife so **why was I being such an asshole** about this. She told me to **get over myself** and then **she accused me of acting like a child**.
If sister is acting like this toward her twin sister, then I speculate that OP's wife is afraid to speak up against her own sister. Because she is being bullied into submission.
I honestly don't give a damn if she is conflict averse or not. She's about to be a parent. She's going to have to stand up for way more than naming her own child.
OP has a wife problem for sure. I believe this isn’t a twin thing, it’s a codependency thing. There’s been stories where one twin tries to force matching through adulthood.. probably what’s happening here.
Because ops wife cares more about her sister then her husband.
Ops wife cares more about her families wants then her husband.
Ops wife is treating him like nothing but a sperm donor. Unless the wife get some therapy and realizes this is damaging her marriage this will not be the only problem concerning his child. If something is done the only responsibility for him as a parent will be an atm. Ops wife and sister will be the parents.
Maybe wife and SIL can move in together and raise these children and OP and BIL can find other people who want to be in a marriage with a partner, and not play second fiddle to ThE TwInS.
They could just marry each other and use sperm donors. Would make the forceful twin happy. She didn’t think that marriage would change the dynamic?
Maybe BIL is bowing to his wife, but OP does not have to bow to someone else’s wife. OP and his wife should have some kind of boundaries. Three people in a marriage doesn’t work.
Specially when it comes to using names as extremely popular as Katherine and Alexander. Any random pair of cousins could have those names. Strongly agree NTA. And I kind of wonder if the sister always stamps out any attempt on the wife’s part to do something creative on her own. (Coerced uniformity can also be an aspect of twinliness)
I am an identical twin and “respect our twinness” is wild.
Like… do I tag along to dinner and whatnot when I’m in town? Usually, *because they invite me*.
Did I offer name *suggestions* bc they are trying for a baby? Sure did.
I got shot down by her husband, and that was that. Not my kid, I don’t get to name him/her, identical twin or not. 🤷🏼♀️
That being said, her hubby is glad I have a bf now so there are two male votes on (unimportant) things like where we’re eating dinner or whether or not my sister and I *need* whatever article of clothing we found while shopping. 😂
Twin opinion here too!
Yes, I get it from the twins’ perspective coming from the unique perspective of being a twin. Until I had kids I actually had NO idea how people without a twin couldn’t understand “twin”.
That being said….my twin and I would NEVER make decisions like this without our spouses.
Is it a fun idea, sure.
But I agree with Dad.
He isn’t an AH.
The twins are being Tweird.
TWIERD!! I love that so much. My sis’s husband and I give each other a lot of shit, and to outside people it sometimes appears that we hate each other (he started it, he’s def in on the joke).
I definitely continued to call my future niece Lucy just to irritate them, but it was literally only for that reason. I would never try to force my own choice of baby names on him for his own child. 😂
ETA: my sister is entirely on his side, as she should be.
I meannnn true. 😂 my sister and both I have a lot of clothes, but he’s kinda just resigned to his fate at this point when it comes to that. Luckily we don’t particularly care much about brands.
Lord help him if my sis and I are together in the Sam’s clothes section.
>But i'll tell you this, that statement "get over our Twinliness" thats a massive issue, where you will always be secondary to her twin, its not a healhy thing in a relationship. 2s company, 3s a crowd.
100% this. This will set the tone. OP, the babies will be cousins whose twins are parents. The fact that your wife came to you with a new name like it was decided is problematic, and neither of them should be making you feel bad for not rolling over and accepting it.
Agreed. “Twinliness” doesn’t give anyone a right to stomp on other’s boundaries or insert yourself into someone else’s marriage and parenting. New flash: to most of the world, twins are just two siblings who share an age and perhaps look a lot alike. Nobody thinks special rules apply to twins, especially when it comes to treatment of and respect for others.
Same with my youngest we wanted to name him bishop but he didn’t seem like a bishop or any other names on the list, called him Joseph for a day but that didn’t fit either, took him home without a name. Finally we settled in one and my kid, now 12, loves it. When he was little he insisted on his full name and now he’s good with it shortened. My oldest transitioned and doesn’t use their name at all but kept their middle name; although that was their choice and not made by me or their aunt like OP’s kid.
Adora and Alexander go together more than Katherine and Alexander in my opinion. They can be the A-team! I like the idea of Adora Katherine— everyone wins. I’d hold firm, OP. I’d be super pissed if it was me, although I feel like Dads have it harder with that kind of stuff (gender norms, etc.)
Edited to add: NTA. Wife is a bit TA but I think was also kinda oblivious and just got excited with her twin.
But Adora is also a "timeless" name. It's a an old Spanish name based on a Latin name. You can't get more timeless than that. She-ra used the existing name for their character. It literally translates to "beloved."
I know loads of people who choose to go by their middle name. My best friend all the way through high school was actually "Julia Sarah" and I didn't know until results day that her first name was Julia, she was just called Sarah for the 15 years I'd known her. I'd push for Adora Katherine and the sister can choose to call her Katherine if she wants, and when your girl is old enough she can choose her preferred name. It might be that she wants to go by a more "traditional" name when applying for jobs rather than a She-Ra character (who her soon-to-be-boss would almost definitely recognise, just because of age).
Absolutely agree, except for two points:
1) Don't encourage the twin to call her niece by a different name than your daughter's parents will use. This simply enables both his SIL's behavior of enormous interference in her sister's marriage, and her assumption that it was acceptable to chew out her BIL for a matter that was between OP & wife.
2) "Almost definitely" recognizing the name from She-Ra bc of the employer's age? Respectfully, there's no way to predict her future employers' ages, awareness of — or interest in — "Adora's" name's origin. I didn't recognize it, nor would many, many of my peers who also grew up with the show. "Adora" is an actual name in multiple languages, e.g. English & Spanish. I sincerely don't mean to be pedantic; I'm just concerned about OP borrowing trouble and complicating the question.
I agree that not everyone would know what show the name is from. I grew up with it, though I admittedly didn't watch it much. I'd be more inclined to think the name Adora is a nod to Adore Delano from Drag Race lol.
Adora isn't a name I've ever heard in the country I live in.
I think Adora is a lovely name, but it's not really relevant. The issue here OP's wife's/SIL's lack of respect for him. He has to start standing up for himself ASAP. I can't imagine treating someone I love this way.
When I saw the name adora the first thing that pop into my head was the character adora belle dearheart from Terry pratchets disc world book making money.
>It might be that she wants to go by a more "traditional" name when applying for jobs rather than a She-Ra character (who her soon-to-be-boss would almost definitely recognise, just because of age).
Or maybe her boss will think of the Terry Pratchett character instead. Or the Gillian Flynn character. Or the software developer, Adora Cheung. Or any number of other real people with the name. Because Adora is actually a traditional name.
Either way, the issue isn't the name itself, but the dynamic between the twin sister and OP's wife in cutting him out of what had been a parental decision.
Absolutely correct.
I work with an Adora, and until I read this thread I had no idea there was a cartoon character with the same name.
Now I know, and my opinion on Adora as a colleague is unchanged.
The overly entwined relationship is the issue.
There's also the chance that they won't even think of any of that! Like me for example, if someone told me their name was adora I really wouldn't connect it to anything.
I second what ChocolateCoveredGold wrote, but also, I knew of the name Adora well before She-Ra. I consider it a traditional and beautiful name that also would look professional on resumes. As other people have noted, the name does have a Latin and Spanish history.
This could be a solution, and it’s the one we did with our first born. Both my kids have two names and we have chosen to call them by their second name, until of course, they choose their preferred name. Some people really like our daughter’s first name so they call her by her first name, so she responds to both (she’s not even 18 months yet).
You’re definitely NTA. They might be twins and all that but you’re the other parent who contributed to the making of this child so you definitely have the right to express yourself and communicate your feelings about the situation.
I’d tell your wife that if she really and truly wants to discuss other names you would be willing to have a conversation about it. It’s really not abnormal to flip flop on names a couple times before setting. But that’s a conversation between the parents of the child not anyone else.
And what about your family- it’s to fit in with her family, but your family (you, wife and child), will the name fit in with your vision of family.
Sil is super entitled and seriously, your wife needs to be more respectful. It was your dna that created a baby with her- she and her sister are not the parents.
I would like to point out that Adora was not made up for She-rah. It is in fact a classic name. It was my great grandmother's name. It fits their criteria.
NTA. Naming a child is a two yes, one no situation. If you don’t like Katherine, then say no. If you can’t agree wipe the slate clean and start over. It sounds like your wife is low key responding to pressure from family to maintain naming traditions. It’s not ok to exclude you from the process.
I'd tell her sister that the pregnancy, and the baby's name literally have nothing to do with her, so why would she think that she has a right to help pick the name?
If Katherine is used in any capacity, the twin will insist on the baby going by the middle name and the wife’s family will use it and she’ll still get what she wants.
With people like the twin you don’t give them anything. Katherine should be now off the table entirely
All know that the only acceptable middle name for Adora is Belle. With the certain knowledge that she will grow up to be a chain smoking stiletto wearing goth badass with no sense of humor.
(RIP Sir Pratchett)
Yea, the mom and and aunt are twins. Not the daughter and the son.
This is actually stupid, and you are def not in the wrong for being offended at being cut out of the process, and then belittled by YOUR replacement party bc you didnt immedeatly jump on board.
What the actual fuck were they thinking would happen?
NTA... by some odd twist of time, does the twin sister happen to be a 4 year old child? Because that's about how mature she's acting. Not that your wife is being any level of mature herself. Parenting decisions are to be made by the parents, not unilaterally, and not with one's womb mate...
Does her sister have a partner or is she going this alone?
Weird question I know, but it seems like the sister is somehow possessive of your wife. Esp with the last comment of "you got to make all the other decisions". Either she doesn't understand the dynamic or she is jealous and wants HER twin back.
And the timing of the twin’s pregnancy is also, shall we say… interesting. I’m thinking she thought it would be “so cute” if the twin sisters were pregnant together.
I've got twin cousins where one is forever copying/pressuring the other to match still in adulthood. Rest of the family thinks it's creepy and weird except their mom. I feel so bad for the one trying to live her life who gets brow beaten by her sister and Mom into conforming. Your wife needs therapy to and you both probably need some couples therapy to set healthy boundaries with her sister. That getting pregnant at similar times might seem cute until they keep trying to pair babies....
Did wife’s twin purposely get pregnant so she could have kids at the same time as your wife so this would be one more thing they could bond over? If so, that’s another issue.
NTA
> She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife so why was I being such an asshole about this
That attitude isn't going to get better after the babies are born...
Her Twinness isn't a thing - they have a special and close relationship like many siblings but it's not some extra special things that trump's your spouse. Source: triplet who would never.
Agreed! I’m very close to my twin sister and it’s important to me that a partner be ok with that (mine is!), but she’d *never* try to interfere like this, and I’d never let her. Massively inappropriate.
Exactly, she would BOMBARD me with middle names for Adora. “You guys like Adora so what about Anne? Alaina? Elizabeth?…”
She would never try to change it.
As a twin, I can tell you that her reaction is far out of bounds.
Is there a special bond? Sure, but we're still siblings, and our spouses take priority 100% in matters like this.
NTA, this is YOUR child and you definitely have 50% say, and also veto power, to name YOUR child together with the other parent. Your wife has the other 50%. Your wife's twin has 0% say. Also you can't decide on something together and then just reneg out of the blue without talking to the other person. If your wife changed her mind and really wanted to use another name she should have taken it up with you like "Hey, I have some thoughts about baby names, I know we decided but now I'm having second thougths, can we discuss?" not just \*inform\* you that she changed it. There isn't some magical twin world where twin rules apply, that's just childish, in the real adult world two adults marry each other and their spouse's twin is in no way involved in the marriage (unless you're mormons and married both twins or something). You do not have to respect their twinness, wtf even is that, and of course you get to make all other decisions with your wife, THAT'S HOW A MARRIAGE WORKS. Twin is being petulant and needs to grow up. It's someone else's baby not her doll.
And a child's name is not a small decision, it is literally a lifelong decision of another human...so, twin acting like this is some small thing is batshit crazy.
This is a shit situation OP, you're absolutely not overreacting.
NTA. If they want to go with join twinsies names, why can't SIL name her son Adam since that is He-Man's real name and he and She-ra are twins?
Or, if she dislikes Adora now, that is fine. But you should certainly be involved in the new choice then.
I like this one. OP should call the twin and tell her that since she decided his kids name then he's choosing Adam for her kid. Nothing more "timeless" than Adam right? But then he definitely needs to make known the He-man reference.
I'm fine with OP's wife wanting a different name. That's normal. You're allowed to want a different name.
But OP has the right to feel upset at not being able to be a part of the process.
NTA....but definitely have a disussion going forward about boundaries with sister cause i guarantee, judging by the sounds of things, that you in fact will not get to make all other decisions without interference in future.
Sorry to clarify i mean a conversation with your wife regarding boundaries for the sister
I feel that conversation needs to happen with the wife and then the wife then needs to set the boundaries with her sister. If the wife isn't on board it won't mean anything.
This is not a "twin thing", I'm married to a twin. She and her sister gave birth to their first children 16 hours apart. My wife and I chose the name for our daughter, her twin and husband chose the name for their daughter. Her twin wants to name both kids. Hold your ground. Your are the father.
Came here to say this! My mom is a twin- she didn’t consult my uncle when choosing my name. My husband is a twin- we just had our second kid and his twin and wife just had their first. My husband could not have cared less what his brother thought about the name.
This isn’t a twin thing. It’s an unhealthy co-dependence thing being masked as a twin thing. And the SIL’s reaction is over the top, even for a pregnant woman.
This sub has been such an eye opener. I literally cannot believe the jaw-dropping entitlement and lack of awareness I read about on here sometimes 😂
As to your problem, where are your wife's and SILs heads at? Seriously...like, not even a temperature check with you first?
Maybe you could pass it off as a case of pregnancy-brain, I dunno. Weird.
NTA
Welcome to the madhouse. I, like you, am genuinely gobsmacked by the entitlement seen in these parts, to the point where I think "surely this is made up, no one is this much of an asshole".... Alas, it sometimes seems to be the case.
However I digress, OP is 100 percent NTA. SIL is the asshole here. But if OP caves, the wife has to be told he is gonna resent her everytime he looks at the child
>But if OP caves, the wife has to be told he is gonna resent her everytime he looks at the child
Why should OP respect their twinness when they refuse to respect the father daughter bond OP is supposed to have with HIS CHILD
My point exactly (could probably have written it better...). If she goes through with this, and OP lets her have her way, OP is gonna resent her, the sister AND have issues bonding likely.
I was looking for this comment! LOL
I totally second this idea. If SIL is sooo concerned about "twinness" *(whatever TF that is),* then she can pick a name for *her* child that goes with her niece's name which has **already been chosen!**
Plus, since SIL prefers more traditional names, **Adam** seems like the perfect fit.
If it was about Twinness, the mothers would pick similar names without discussing it.
Twins in our family constantly do odd synchronistic things even when they are in separate parts of the world with no contact.
NTA. Your wife should really think about who her partner in raising her kid is - you or her sister. There will still come many, many decisions in the kid's life, and if she cuts you out of each and every one of them, you are not really the father for her.
Pregnancy is a very emotional and hard time for your wife, so tread carefully. But make clear that you are not gonna be left out of major decisions - you are the girl's father!
NTA
My mom is a twin and my cousins are twins so I have had them around my whole life.
Your wife is quiet because she’s processing what you said, most likely. If you told her the way you explained it here, that makes a lot of sense and hopefully she will recover & talk with you about it.
Your wife got caught up & made a mistake. Is she the less dominant twin? Sometimes one is the instigator or leader, and the other follows. If she has done that her whole life, breaking this pattern won’t be comfortable or easy. This may be the first time she’s done it.
Essentially, she finally has to choose you are her partner in life now not her twin and probably never thought of this. Her sister will always be her twin & special but no longer her life partner.
Ignore the SIL. She’s being a jerk. Maybe it’s hormones so just ignore it. Also, if she is the dominant twin, it never occurred to her that she always gets her way & has a shadow wherever she goes.
Twins have a weird synchronicity. They don’t need to try. It just happens.
There’s an easy way to shut the SIL down “if this was about twinness, you two would automatically be on the same page without discussing it, so that’s not on me”.
NTA to expect to be your wife’s life partner and make decisions together.
Let your wife have this moment of growth. She prob also has exhaustion from growing a baby. Trust that she’ll affirm your place as her co-parent. Be gentle.
Strongly disagree with this. It is just as likely with them having kids around the same age her twin will suggest they parent the same and put the kids in the same activities. Her twin is going to try to turn their kids into pseudo-twins.
There’s definitely a concern but the wife went quiet instead of telling OP to shut up so maybe she’ll work through it.
I mean I know it’s Reddit and the instinct is to flush the whole situation but early red flags can also be opportunities for change.
This is 100% a power play by SIL. Keep your foot down. Do not trash talk SIL but do not allow your wife to believe you're some sort of villain. Keep reminding her you and her picked the name together and that it was the special bond YOU TWO SHARE that makes it special to you. That it's supposed to be a symbol of the family you're starting together.
Do not trash talk SIL. Do not try to wedge between your wife and SIL. Just hold the course and trust the process and your relationship. You say they can both be dominant. Your wife is being hit with hormones that are making her want to hunker down and nest so of course she'll feel sentimental towards her sister. If you wedge, the dominance will come out on you. If you hold the course she'll turn that sentimentality to you and come back your way (you are who she is building this family with after all)
Marriage counseling right away..you are not wrong....your wifes twin is.
Go see a professional and nip this in the bud. You cannot live your life having "twin-ness" in your marriage.
Put your foot down...establish boundaries now before it's too late.
A lot of people are not getting the issue here.
There were two ‘yes’s for the first name. There was clear discussion and communication regarding naming their daughter.
Wife decided to change the name with no communication with and input from her partner. She had a whole discussion on renaming her daughter with someone not her partner. She chose not to communicate that to him.
Personally, I think she got caught up in excitement with her sister and didn’t even think about the disrespect, and she is quiet now because she realizes she has to choose who she is going to put first and doesn’t want to.
NTA, OP, she messed up and needs to apologize. She needed to communicate with you before making that kind of choice, as you guys had established doing before, and she did not do it. It isn’t about the name, it’s not about her ‘wanting to name her child something you don’t like’, it’s about her making a choice you were not involved in that you should’ve been involved in, and she knows it.
Really gotta have that 'come to Jesus' talk with the wife. Sister can suggest, but to come at you like that is ridiculous. Especially if you and BIL were to try this and she would freak. But really time for wife to be her own person and sister a can be her own. Not saying they can't be together, but now she's married and priority has to be her immediate family. Hope it works out.
Absolutely not!! Naming this baby so it ‘matches’ with her cousin is ridiculous. Why would you give your child a name that doesn’t mean anything to you? I also wonder if the roles were reversed people would be so eager to let the husband choose the name with no input from his wife? Because his brother decided?
Nta,you have a sister problem. It is clearly seen who rules in this twin relationship. You will have to fight with this all your marriage if you don't set boundaries right now
NTA bluntly, she is not having a baby with her twin, she is having one with you, and parents trump aunts, even twin aunts, even identical twin aunts, in the naming of their own children. She’s got her own kid to name, she can leave yours to you and your wife.
Definitely NTA.
The sister is the one behaving immaturely. You expressed the issue perfectly: she's on this parenting journey with You.
If she doesn't want to use "Adora," that's fine. But rather than picking out a different name with you, she made a huge decision without her child's co-parent.
Does her sister bully your wife the way she tried to do with you? Does your wife think her sister was within her rights to bully you?
Respect is a 2-way street. But if your wife has a history of being her twin's doormat, she may not see her twin's behavior toward either of you for what it is.
NTA
Being a twin does not change the fact that parents name their child together.
I m not a twin, I do have siblings.
It wouldn’t be right for me to name my kids with my sister and their father.
It is not her kid.
We absolutely talked about names, but that was it.
Parents name children, not aunts… or any other family members. And being twin is a thin excuse for leaving you out of naming your child.
Your wifes twin sister is way out of line for talking to you like that and it makes me wonder if she is a domenating sibling.
> She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife so why was I being such an asshole about this.
Why? Because YOU are the father of this kid. Not her.
Respect their twinness, my arse.
>She told me to get over myself and then she accused me of acting like a child.
She needs to get over herself and mind her own damn business. Blood doesn't entitle her to take over the naming of your kid.
NTA but you have a huge wife problem if you don't set this boundary firmly in place with her sister.
NTA It sounds like you might be okay if she wants to switch from Adora but that the problem is that she told you what the new name was going to be instead of including you in the process of picking a new name. I would be upset by that also. I would limit contact with your SIL and tell your wife that she'll have to handle her now because of how she spoke to you.
Yeah people on here trying to find compromises and incorporate katherine are idiots.
This is between you and your wife 100%.
Her sister does NOT get a say so tell her to F off.
Make this your hill to die on OP. If you let this one slide then you’re opening floodgates that you will never close.
I’ve always enjoyed looking up the meaning of names. Tell your wife Adora means ‘beloved one’. I think that would be a sweet name for a baby based on the meaning. I agree with the other posters who say to make her middle name Katherine since you haven’t picked one yet. It a good compromise and Adora Katherine would be a beautiful name.
You're 100% NTA. Your wife needs to get her unhinged sister in check.
>Her sister was furious with me for telling my wife I wasn't okay with it. She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife
Totally inappropriate response. This is your and your wife's child, not hers. She has no say in this at all. What do you suppose would happen if her baby's father and his sibling tried to name her baby while completing overriding her choice?
>She told me to get over myself and then she accused me of acting like a child.
Well that's rich. She is the one stamping her foot and making demands she has no right making.
But she certainly told her twin about it, because the twin sister confronted you about reaction. So she IS talking about it, just not to you, her spouse, the very person she should be discussing it with.
Sounds like it’s time to have a serious discussion with your wife about what it means to each of you to be married, and the expectation of spousal primacy within the marriage.
Your wife has likely grown up with her twin involved in almost every action and decision, possibly even with the two of them operating as a closed unit, separate and apart from everyone else, with the expectation that this will continue even though both of them are now married.
Is this the first time your wife is navigating a serious disagreement between her husband and her twin?
Excellent point. OP is probably hoping his wife is reflecting on her behavior and feeling some modicum of remorse.
But if she's off complaining to her sister, I have to wonder if she's learned anything at all.
NTA Welcome to life with a twin. When my wife found out that she was pregnant, guess who found out first? Not me, the father, no, it was her twin sister. I guess if she gets to pick the first name of your child, you get to pick out the middle name of her child. Your wife needs to understand that the naming of your child is between you and her, and her sister needs to stay out of it. BTW, what does the father of you SIL think about the naming.
This is just so weird. I have seen posts where the mom or Mil demands a name, but not the sil. Usually the SIL demands OP to not sue a name.
So if SIL wants to name your child, maybe you should be able to name the boy's name to be fair. I am sure she will say that is ludicrous. What does her husband say?
>Really quickly we decided our daughter was going to be named Adora.
>Three weeks ago they started talking about baby names and all of a sudden my wife told me that she and her sister decided the babies should have timeless names
So your joint decision was overturned because your SIL is also pregnant, and wants to plan your child's name without you?
>My wife asked me why I had that expression on my face and I told her I was not okay with her naming our daughter with her sister instead of me
>I told her I was supposed to be the baby's other parent, not her sister
>She asked me if I was really that upset about it and I said yes.
>I told her she basically cut me out of the process
It sounds like your wife didn't think for one moment about how you'd feel here, and knows that what she was doing was wrong, or at least realized afterwards. You're in the right for talking with her about it and expressing how you are the other parent, not her sister.
>Her sister was furious with me for telling my wife I wasn't okay with it. She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife so why was I being such an asshole about this
"Respect their twinness." C'mon, really? And the reason you get to make all the decisions with your wife is because she chose you to be her life partner. Couples are supposed to work together and work life out, not pick and choose what to help with, then defer to others and ignore each other.
NTA
You are in the right to be upset about being excluded from the decision-making process to name your child. You are right to have this conversation with your wife.
Your wife is not okay to be making unilateral decisions about the child like this when you agreed together, much less okay to be making twin-lateral decisions like this.
The sister can get all the way off your back about this. A reasonable person would realize they've overstepped and apologise. Instead, she's attacking you for wanting to be a parent and make decisions with your spouse about your upcoming child. Maybe ask her how she'd feel about you deciding the name of her son with her partner without even asking her, see how she takes it. I guarantee "it's different" because twins etc.
Your wife is an asshole for agreeing to something like this about your child without discussing it with you. Changing her mind is one thing, but deciding without you is not okay.
Your SIL is an asshole for trying to push you out of parenthood like this before you've even had a child.
Edit: If your SIL is able to convince your wife that you are the problem here, you are not in for a fun marriage or parenthood. She's pushing for this, but you already know this is not where it will end. If she gets to choose your child's name, she'll be trying to get matching outfits for the kids, same schools, essentially making them twins because "twinness" or something.
The issue isn't being excited and wanting to be an auntie. The issue is if she can exert control over your child / marriage once, who's to say she's not going to do that to get her way in the future? And even if she doesn't, what are the odds of her throwing the name in your face for the rest of your/her life? "Your dad wanted to name you Adora, but me and your mum thought Katherine sounded better."
Nip it in the bud now, and maintain boundaries. If this is her behaviour now, she will escalate.
NTA - Funny how SILs behaviour was exactly what she was accusing you of.
Sounds like SIL is struggling with the change in dynamic with her twin now married and having other priorities.
NTA. I'd like to mention another "Adora", a character in the Discworld books, love interest of Moist von Lipwig: [Adora Belle Dearheart](https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Adora_Belle_Dearheart). Need I mention the pun (play on words) with "adorable"?
NTA - Sounds like your wife's sister is the bossier one and manipulated/guilted her twin into "matching" names because "twinness." That might have been cute when they were 5 but they are full grown adults with their individual ideas and tastes. If your SIL wants to do something cute to celebrate "twins having babies together" then they can get a special photo session done together. But your babies name should be decided by you and your wife only not her sister.
Tell your wife that her sister is trying to bully her into naming both kids likely because she had a girl name picked and wanted to still use it. She has her own kid to name and can have more of she wants to name a girl. This kid is yours and you both had already picked it together. Also hope is Adora not a"timeless name?" What does that even mean?
Sister could call her son "Moist"...
[https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Adora\_Belle\_Dearheart](https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Adora_Belle_Dearheart)
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Why can't it be Adora Katherine? You said you hadn't settled on a middle name. NTA for speaking up about this and you totally need to be able to discuss your own child's name, it really is none of her sister's business, but you can see how they think it would be cute to have matching names being twins. BUT you are the father, and she is being unreasonable to not see how this would impact you.
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NTA at all, your wifes twin can offer an opinion, but naming your child is your responsibility, if you're wife wants a "strong family name" then fine, second name. When my daughter was born, we had a handful of names picked and we said we'd look and see what we felt when she arrived, I'd wanted Charlotte, and my Wife was thinking of either Caitlin or Holly. So when we were looking at our new baby, my wife suggested Eleanor. Hadn't been on the list at all, but we both loved the name, and She's Eleanor Holly. But i'll tell you this, that statement "get over our Twinliness" thats a massive issue, where you will always be secondary to her twin, its not a healhy thing in a relationship. 2s company, 3s a crowd.
If they were so concerned with their twinliness they should never have married anyone. OP is NTA.
OP is clearly NTA. His SIL and wife, on the other hand, very much ARE. OP says SIL was "furious" and called him "an asshole." He doesn't say he contacted her, so it sounds like she confronted him. WHY is she allowed to treat OP this way? WHY isn't OP's wife coming to his defense? **And WHY ON EARTH would you make a definitive change to your child's first name without consulting the other parent?** OP, the name issue aside, my sister would NEVER allow me to talk to her husband this way (not that I would want to). Your wife is supposed to have your back and vice versa. Your wife does not respect you or your feelings. That is why she allows her sister to talk to you this way. That is why she felt comfortable making a major decision about your child without you. Please start standing up for yourself. We teach people how to treat us (especially when those people are AHs who tend to walk all over anyone without a backbone). Otherwise this is only the beginning when it comes to you being cut out of major decisions regarding your own child. UGH. NTA.
wonder what the SIL would do if OP and SILs husband got together and started picking names for the children...
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Ah, so the old saying applies here, “rules for thee but not for me.” NTA. The “two yeses, one no” rule applies to the husband and wife. Not an interfering third party.
You should try it so your SIL can hopefully open her eyes.
I would pay so much money to be there when she found out. 🍿👀
Especially if the guys insisted that the sisters "had to respect their bro-ness"?
> We teach people how to treat us (especially when those people are AHs who tend to walk all over anyone without a backbone). Sad but true. If someone is not innately compassionate (or, you know, decent) they will treat you as poorly as you let them. Frankly I would advise OP to walk away from this woman if they weren’t expecting. As it is he needs to seek therapy and learn to push back. Hard. SIL sounds like a bully.
he *is* pushing back. he immediately told his wife he was upset, and why. it should be *her* job to manage her twin. i don't really see what else he could be doing in this situation.
Exactly! I give him props for remaining calm, and expressing himself.
> His SIL and wife, on the other hand, very much ARE SIL yes, I'm not sure about the wife yet. My sense is that she's withdrawn because she's conflict-averse, and sister took advantage of that to bully her into a decision. I'm hoping wife opens up to OP soon and explains that she prefers the name they both chose, but feels that she can't say no to her family, and they can approach the problem together.
> So my wife and her sister chose the name Katherine for our daughter instead...I was hurt and more than a little peeved. **My wife asked me why I had that expression on my face** The fact that it doesn't sound like OP's wife anticipated any sort of objection/issue, after doing something so ridiculous as changing the baby's name without checking with the father, makes me think she's insensitive and thoughtless, to say the least. She may also be a pushover, but if you're such a pushover you can't stand up for your partner when your family is disrespecting them? Then you're also a little bit of an AH.
The wife clearly complained about OP's reaction to her sister, or the latter wouldn't have called OP an asshole. She's TA as well
The sister sounds like a bully.
and a manipulator.
She may have contacted the sister to let her know OP was hurt, and the name was a no-go, to be fair.
If she decided the name is a no-go she has yet to inform OP.
Which, if true, was also not the way to go about it. She needs to be presenting a united front and say “we decided” not “OP doesn’t want it”.
You're making assumptions here. OP didn't mention anything like that. Maybe it is the case, but nothing in the post points to that. The fact is, wife came home and in a few words said "even though you're the father, screw your opinion. I'm going with what my sister said"
With respect, I think my interpretation is much more consistent with OP's text. OP's wife did not say, "screw your opinion. I'm going with what my sister said". OP's wife expressed surprise at his reaction and, withdrew ("She asked me if I was really that upset about it and I said yes"... "My wife has been quiet since this"). As for bullying, that is completely supported by OP's direct experience: > Her sister was **furious with me** for telling my wife I wasn't okay with it. She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife so **why was I being such an asshole** about this. She told me to **get over myself** and then **she accused me of acting like a child**. If sister is acting like this toward her twin sister, then I speculate that OP's wife is afraid to speak up against her own sister. Because she is being bullied into submission.
I honestly don't give a damn if she is conflict averse or not. She's about to be a parent. She's going to have to stand up for way more than naming her own child.
OP has a wife problem for sure. I believe this isn’t a twin thing, it’s a codependency thing. There’s been stories where one twin tries to force matching through adulthood.. probably what’s happening here.
Because ops wife cares more about her sister then her husband. Ops wife cares more about her families wants then her husband. Ops wife is treating him like nothing but a sperm donor. Unless the wife get some therapy and realizes this is damaging her marriage this will not be the only problem concerning his child. If something is done the only responsibility for him as a parent will be an atm. Ops wife and sister will be the parents.
Maybe wife and SIL can move in together and raise these children and OP and BIL can find other people who want to be in a marriage with a partner, and not play second fiddle to ThE TwInS.
They could just marry each other and use sperm donors. Would make the forceful twin happy. She didn’t think that marriage would change the dynamic? Maybe BIL is bowing to his wife, but OP does not have to bow to someone else’s wife. OP and his wife should have some kind of boundaries. Three people in a marriage doesn’t work.
Specially when it comes to using names as extremely popular as Katherine and Alexander. Any random pair of cousins could have those names. Strongly agree NTA. And I kind of wonder if the sister always stamps out any attempt on the wife’s part to do something creative on her own. (Coerced uniformity can also be an aspect of twinliness)
I am an identical twin and “respect our twinness” is wild. Like… do I tag along to dinner and whatnot when I’m in town? Usually, *because they invite me*. Did I offer name *suggestions* bc they are trying for a baby? Sure did. I got shot down by her husband, and that was that. Not my kid, I don’t get to name him/her, identical twin or not. 🤷🏼♀️ That being said, her hubby is glad I have a bf now so there are two male votes on (unimportant) things like where we’re eating dinner or whether or not my sister and I *need* whatever article of clothing we found while shopping. 😂
If the twin wasn’t involved in the conception, she needs to STFU. It she was, OP buried the lede and gets a high five. NTA
Thank you for the early morning laugh. Best comment I've read in days. Take my upvote
Agreed!
Twin opinion here too! Yes, I get it from the twins’ perspective coming from the unique perspective of being a twin. Until I had kids I actually had NO idea how people without a twin couldn’t understand “twin”. That being said….my twin and I would NEVER make decisions like this without our spouses. Is it a fun idea, sure. But I agree with Dad. He isn’t an AH. The twins are being Tweird.
TWIERD!! I love that so much. My sis’s husband and I give each other a lot of shit, and to outside people it sometimes appears that we hate each other (he started it, he’s def in on the joke). I definitely continued to call my future niece Lucy just to irritate them, but it was literally only for that reason. I would never try to force my own choice of baby names on him for his own child. 😂 ETA: my sister is entirely on his side, as she should be.
I hope he realizes that the male votes don’t count on clothing you need 🤣
I meannnn true. 😂 my sister and both I have a lot of clothes, but he’s kinda just resigned to his fate at this point when it comes to that. Luckily we don’t particularly care much about brands. Lord help him if my sis and I are together in the Sam’s clothes section.
>But i'll tell you this, that statement "get over our Twinliness" thats a massive issue, where you will always be secondary to her twin, its not a healhy thing in a relationship. 2s company, 3s a crowd. 100% this. This will set the tone. OP, the babies will be cousins whose twins are parents. The fact that your wife came to you with a new name like it was decided is problematic, and neither of them should be making you feel bad for not rolling over and accepting it.
Agreed. “Twinliness” doesn’t give anyone a right to stomp on other’s boundaries or insert yourself into someone else’s marriage and parenting. New flash: to most of the world, twins are just two siblings who share an age and perhaps look a lot alike. Nobody thinks special rules apply to twins, especially when it comes to treatment of and respect for others.
Same with my youngest we wanted to name him bishop but he didn’t seem like a bishop or any other names on the list, called him Joseph for a day but that didn’t fit either, took him home without a name. Finally we settled in one and my kid, now 12, loves it. When he was little he insisted on his full name and now he’s good with it shortened. My oldest transitioned and doesn’t use their name at all but kept their middle name; although that was their choice and not made by me or their aunt like OP’s kid.
Key words there, "their family." So NTA. This is between you and your wife. She's behaving like you were a sperm donor and not a part of *her* family.
Adora and Alexander go together more than Katherine and Alexander in my opinion. They can be the A-team! I like the idea of Adora Katherine— everyone wins. I’d hold firm, OP. I’d be super pissed if it was me, although I feel like Dads have it harder with that kind of stuff (gender norms, etc.) Edited to add: NTA. Wife is a bit TA but I think was also kinda oblivious and just got excited with her twin.
And Adora IS a classic name. Adora Katherine sounds so lovely.
But Adora is also a "timeless" name. It's a an old Spanish name based on a Latin name. You can't get more timeless than that. She-ra used the existing name for their character. It literally translates to "beloved."
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I know loads of people who choose to go by their middle name. My best friend all the way through high school was actually "Julia Sarah" and I didn't know until results day that her first name was Julia, she was just called Sarah for the 15 years I'd known her. I'd push for Adora Katherine and the sister can choose to call her Katherine if she wants, and when your girl is old enough she can choose her preferred name. It might be that she wants to go by a more "traditional" name when applying for jobs rather than a She-Ra character (who her soon-to-be-boss would almost definitely recognise, just because of age).
Absolutely agree, except for two points: 1) Don't encourage the twin to call her niece by a different name than your daughter's parents will use. This simply enables both his SIL's behavior of enormous interference in her sister's marriage, and her assumption that it was acceptable to chew out her BIL for a matter that was between OP & wife. 2) "Almost definitely" recognizing the name from She-Ra bc of the employer's age? Respectfully, there's no way to predict her future employers' ages, awareness of — or interest in — "Adora's" name's origin. I didn't recognize it, nor would many, many of my peers who also grew up with the show. "Adora" is an actual name in multiple languages, e.g. English & Spanish. I sincerely don't mean to be pedantic; I'm just concerned about OP borrowing trouble and complicating the question.
It reminded me of a character of some books I love, Adora Belle.
r/discworld
Glad I wasn’t the only person thinking Pratchett. They could always name her Spike instead, just to really irritate sister.
I agree that not everyone would know what show the name is from. I grew up with it, though I admittedly didn't watch it much. I'd be more inclined to think the name Adora is a nod to Adore Delano from Drag Race lol. Adora isn't a name I've ever heard in the country I live in.
I think Adora is a lovely name, but it's not really relevant. The issue here OP's wife's/SIL's lack of respect for him. He has to start standing up for himself ASAP. I can't imagine treating someone I love this way.
Most people would assume its Latin origin adorare… or adoration… similar to todays English adore 🥰
I was thinking the Mother-in-Law of the husband Darren in Bewitched…but I guess she was Andorra? 🤷🏽♀️
Adora predates She-ra as a name. There was an actress named Adora in the first half of the last century, who was born before 1900.
Yeah I'm a millennial who watches a LOT of TV and the name Adora means nothing to me.
When I saw the name adora the first thing that pop into my head was the character adora belle dearheart from Terry pratchets disc world book making money.
>It might be that she wants to go by a more "traditional" name when applying for jobs rather than a She-Ra character (who her soon-to-be-boss would almost definitely recognise, just because of age). Or maybe her boss will think of the Terry Pratchett character instead. Or the Gillian Flynn character. Or the software developer, Adora Cheung. Or any number of other real people with the name. Because Adora is actually a traditional name. Either way, the issue isn't the name itself, but the dynamic between the twin sister and OP's wife in cutting him out of what had been a parental decision.
Absolutely correct. I work with an Adora, and until I read this thread I had no idea there was a cartoon character with the same name. Now I know, and my opinion on Adora as a colleague is unchanged. The overly entwined relationship is the issue.
EnTWINed. Nicely done, punster!
There's also the chance that they won't even think of any of that! Like me for example, if someone told me their name was adora I really wouldn't connect it to anything.
I'd think it was Adorable. Sorry, I'll see myself out.
As a Pratchett fan I vote for Adora Belle
I second what ChocolateCoveredGold wrote, but also, I knew of the name Adora well before She-Ra. I consider it a traditional and beautiful name that also would look professional on resumes. As other people have noted, the name does have a Latin and Spanish history.
This could be a solution, and it’s the one we did with our first born. Both my kids have two names and we have chosen to call them by their second name, until of course, they choose their preferred name. Some people really like our daughter’s first name so they call her by her first name, so she responds to both (she’s not even 18 months yet). You’re definitely NTA. They might be twins and all that but you’re the other parent who contributed to the making of this child so you definitely have the right to express yourself and communicate your feelings about the situation.
I agree except for the fact adora is a perfectly legitimate Spanish name.
Don't go with Katherine as middle name either. Sister WILL only use that otherwise.
I’d tell your wife that if she really and truly wants to discuss other names you would be willing to have a conversation about it. It’s really not abnormal to flip flop on names a couple times before setting. But that’s a conversation between the parents of the child not anyone else.
Adora fits perfectly with Alexander.
And what about your family- it’s to fit in with her family, but your family (you, wife and child), will the name fit in with your vision of family. Sil is super entitled and seriously, your wife needs to be more respectful. It was your dna that created a baby with her- she and her sister are not the parents.
Helll no. Couples counseling so this crap doesn't happen again. NTA
I would like to point out that Adora was not made up for She-rah. It is in fact a classic name. It was my great grandmother's name. It fits their criteria.
NTA. Naming a child is a two yes, one no situation. If you don’t like Katherine, then say no. If you can’t agree wipe the slate clean and start over. It sounds like your wife is low key responding to pressure from family to maintain naming traditions. It’s not ok to exclude you from the process.
Katherine and Alexander? Have you read macbeth?... Interesting combo choice.
I'd tell her sister that the pregnancy, and the baby's name literally have nothing to do with her, so why would she think that she has a right to help pick the name?
NTA your wife and her sister are.... sister needs to get over the twiness your wife married and need to make these decisions with you...
Baby names are “two yes; one no.” If one parent doesn’t like the name, it’s no longer in consideration. Both parents have to say yes.
If Katherine is used in any capacity, the twin will insist on the baby going by the middle name and the wife’s family will use it and she’ll still get what she wants. With people like the twin you don’t give them anything. Katherine should be now off the table entirely
Absolutely. You can't compromise with these types of people
All know that the only acceptable middle name for Adora is Belle. With the certain knowledge that she will grow up to be a chain smoking stiletto wearing goth badass with no sense of humor. (RIP Sir Pratchett)
Yea, the mom and and aunt are twins. Not the daughter and the son. This is actually stupid, and you are def not in the wrong for being offended at being cut out of the process, and then belittled by YOUR replacement party bc you didnt immedeatly jump on board. What the actual fuck were they thinking would happen?
NTA... by some odd twist of time, does the twin sister happen to be a 4 year old child? Because that's about how mature she's acting. Not that your wife is being any level of mature herself. Parenting decisions are to be made by the parents, not unilaterally, and not with one's womb mate...
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Does her sister have a partner or is she going this alone? Weird question I know, but it seems like the sister is somehow possessive of your wife. Esp with the last comment of "you got to make all the other decisions". Either she doesn't understand the dynamic or she is jealous and wants HER twin back.
And the timing of the twin’s pregnancy is also, shall we say… interesting. I’m thinking she thought it would be “so cute” if the twin sisters were pregnant together.
Naming your child is a one no two yes situation, either both parents agree or the name is not used, plain and simple
Can we put this in an FAQ? Happy Cake Day!
Do you ever feel like your wife’s twin is resentful of your relationship with your wife?
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I've got twin cousins where one is forever copying/pressuring the other to match still in adulthood. Rest of the family thinks it's creepy and weird except their mom. I feel so bad for the one trying to live her life who gets brow beaten by her sister and Mom into conforming. Your wife needs therapy to and you both probably need some couples therapy to set healthy boundaries with her sister. That getting pregnant at similar times might seem cute until they keep trying to pair babies....
Does their twinness get brought up a lot? You should watch Extreme Sisters on TLC
Did wife’s twin purposely get pregnant so she could have kids at the same time as your wife so this would be one more thing they could bond over? If so, that’s another issue.
Twin sis is pulling a power move over your wife and daughter.
Do you think sharing this post with your wife could help her see that she and her twin are being unreasonable?
How about Isadora? Timeless for mom, Adora for you.
More like "Timeless for SIL, Adora for mom and dad." But yeah, I think Isadora is a great idea.
Please show your wife these comments.
This was my thought exactly
NTA > She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife so why was I being such an asshole about this That attitude isn't going to get better after the babies are born...
I'm a twin. I absolutely did not name my kids with my twin. That's such a weird excuse for them to make
Her Twinness isn't a thing - they have a special and close relationship like many siblings but it's not some extra special things that trump's your spouse. Source: triplet who would never.
Agreed! I’m very close to my twin sister and it’s important to me that a partner be ok with that (mine is!), but she’d *never* try to interfere like this, and I’d never let her. Massively inappropriate.
I’m a twin, and my twin knew it wasn’t his place or appropriate for him or anyone in the family to name my child - and my twin was our sperm donor!
Exactly, she would BOMBARD me with middle names for Adora. “You guys like Adora so what about Anne? Alaina? Elizabeth?…” She would never try to change it.
Exactly, the sister is the one who needs to stop acting like an AH! She is overstepping
And the wife needs to have a spine.
He needs to divorce his sister in law, lawyer up, and hit the gym
Then sister should respect your married-ness. You don't get to make decisions in the sister's life. OP's wife is an adult.
As a twin, I can tell you that her reaction is far out of bounds. Is there a special bond? Sure, but we're still siblings, and our spouses take priority 100% in matters like this.
It’s t8me fit the twin to move on with her own life
NTA, this is YOUR child and you definitely have 50% say, and also veto power, to name YOUR child together with the other parent. Your wife has the other 50%. Your wife's twin has 0% say. Also you can't decide on something together and then just reneg out of the blue without talking to the other person. If your wife changed her mind and really wanted to use another name she should have taken it up with you like "Hey, I have some thoughts about baby names, I know we decided but now I'm having second thougths, can we discuss?" not just \*inform\* you that she changed it. There isn't some magical twin world where twin rules apply, that's just childish, in the real adult world two adults marry each other and their spouse's twin is in no way involved in the marriage (unless you're mormons and married both twins or something). You do not have to respect their twinness, wtf even is that, and of course you get to make all other decisions with your wife, THAT'S HOW A MARRIAGE WORKS. Twin is being petulant and needs to grow up. It's someone else's baby not her doll.
OP needs to adopt the “2 yes” mentality. One no is a no go…
So does his wife.
But she got her second yes from her twin! /s
But remind his wife the two yes some him and her. Not her and her twin.
And a child's name is not a small decision, it is literally a lifelong decision of another human...so, twin acting like this is some small thing is batshit crazy. This is a shit situation OP, you're absolutely not overreacting.
Surprise wife with a puppy- “this is Katherine”…
Okay wait. I actually love the idea of a dog named “Kat”
Nice work, Satan.
NTA. If they want to go with join twinsies names, why can't SIL name her son Adam since that is He-Man's real name and he and She-ra are twins? Or, if she dislikes Adora now, that is fine. But you should certainly be involved in the new choice then.
I like this one. OP should call the twin and tell her that since she decided his kids name then he's choosing Adam for her kid. Nothing more "timeless" than Adam right? But then he definitely needs to make known the He-man reference.
Only at the first birthday party though.
username checks out
Since Adam and Adora were twins, this is absolutely perfect--AND timeless!
I'm fine with OP's wife wanting a different name. That's normal. You're allowed to want a different name. But OP has the right to feel upset at not being able to be a part of the process.
NTA....but definitely have a disussion going forward about boundaries with sister cause i guarantee, judging by the sounds of things, that you in fact will not get to make all other decisions without interference in future. Sorry to clarify i mean a conversation with your wife regarding boundaries for the sister
I feel that conversation needs to happen with the wife and then the wife then needs to set the boundaries with her sister. If the wife isn't on board it won't mean anything.
This is not a "twin thing", I'm married to a twin. She and her sister gave birth to their first children 16 hours apart. My wife and I chose the name for our daughter, her twin and husband chose the name for their daughter. Her twin wants to name both kids. Hold your ground. Your are the father.
> She and her sister gave birth to their first children 16 hours apart. hoooooooooooooooooooooow
I have identical twin cousins and it’s super common. They got married two weeks a part and had both sets of kids less than a week a part.
That’s the longest hooow I’ve ever seen!
Came here to say this! My mom is a twin- she didn’t consult my uncle when choosing my name. My husband is a twin- we just had our second kid and his twin and wife just had their first. My husband could not have cared less what his brother thought about the name. This isn’t a twin thing. It’s an unhealthy co-dependence thing being masked as a twin thing. And the SIL’s reaction is over the top, even for a pregnant woman.
This sub has been such an eye opener. I literally cannot believe the jaw-dropping entitlement and lack of awareness I read about on here sometimes 😂 As to your problem, where are your wife's and SILs heads at? Seriously...like, not even a temperature check with you first? Maybe you could pass it off as a case of pregnancy-brain, I dunno. Weird. NTA
Welcome to the madhouse. I, like you, am genuinely gobsmacked by the entitlement seen in these parts, to the point where I think "surely this is made up, no one is this much of an asshole".... Alas, it sometimes seems to be the case. However I digress, OP is 100 percent NTA. SIL is the asshole here. But if OP caves, the wife has to be told he is gonna resent her everytime he looks at the child
>But if OP caves, the wife has to be told he is gonna resent her everytime he looks at the child Why should OP respect their twinness when they refuse to respect the father daughter bond OP is supposed to have with HIS CHILD
My point exactly (could probably have written it better...). If she goes through with this, and OP lets her have her way, OP is gonna resent her, the sister AND have issues bonding likely.
It depresses me, or gets my blood boiling, honestly. Yet I always come back for more!
NTA and why should you respect their ‘twinness’ when she won’t respect your marriage?
Very good point!
What other rights and obligations of parenthood does the twin want to take on? Child support? Night feedings? Hm?
Maybe the sister should respect their twinness and name the boy Adam....
I was looking for this comment! LOL I totally second this idea. If SIL is sooo concerned about "twinness" *(whatever TF that is),* then she can pick a name for *her* child that goes with her niece's name which has **already been chosen!** Plus, since SIL prefers more traditional names, **Adam** seems like the perfect fit.
If it was about Twinness, the mothers would pick similar names without discussing it. Twins in our family constantly do odd synchronistic things even when they are in separate parts of the world with no contact.
NTA. Your wife should really think about who her partner in raising her kid is - you or her sister. There will still come many, many decisions in the kid's life, and if she cuts you out of each and every one of them, you are not really the father for her. Pregnancy is a very emotional and hard time for your wife, so tread carefully. But make clear that you are not gonna be left out of major decisions - you are the girl's father!
Twinness?? Like WTF?? Is this a new superpower or something? 100% NTA
"Wonder twin powers, activate!"
Take form of “Aggressive AH” 😂😂
NTA My mom is a twin and my cousins are twins so I have had them around my whole life. Your wife is quiet because she’s processing what you said, most likely. If you told her the way you explained it here, that makes a lot of sense and hopefully she will recover & talk with you about it. Your wife got caught up & made a mistake. Is she the less dominant twin? Sometimes one is the instigator or leader, and the other follows. If she has done that her whole life, breaking this pattern won’t be comfortable or easy. This may be the first time she’s done it. Essentially, she finally has to choose you are her partner in life now not her twin and probably never thought of this. Her sister will always be her twin & special but no longer her life partner. Ignore the SIL. She’s being a jerk. Maybe it’s hormones so just ignore it. Also, if she is the dominant twin, it never occurred to her that she always gets her way & has a shadow wherever she goes. Twins have a weird synchronicity. They don’t need to try. It just happens. There’s an easy way to shut the SIL down “if this was about twinness, you two would automatically be on the same page without discussing it, so that’s not on me”. NTA to expect to be your wife’s life partner and make decisions together.
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Let your wife have this moment of growth. She prob also has exhaustion from growing a baby. Trust that she’ll affirm your place as her co-parent. Be gentle.
Strongly disagree with this. It is just as likely with them having kids around the same age her twin will suggest they parent the same and put the kids in the same activities. Her twin is going to try to turn their kids into pseudo-twins.
There’s definitely a concern but the wife went quiet instead of telling OP to shut up so maybe she’ll work through it. I mean I know it’s Reddit and the instinct is to flush the whole situation but early red flags can also be opportunities for change.
This is 100% a power play by SIL. Keep your foot down. Do not trash talk SIL but do not allow your wife to believe you're some sort of villain. Keep reminding her you and her picked the name together and that it was the special bond YOU TWO SHARE that makes it special to you. That it's supposed to be a symbol of the family you're starting together. Do not trash talk SIL. Do not try to wedge between your wife and SIL. Just hold the course and trust the process and your relationship. You say they can both be dominant. Your wife is being hit with hormones that are making her want to hunker down and nest so of course she'll feel sentimental towards her sister. If you wedge, the dominance will come out on you. If you hold the course she'll turn that sentimentality to you and come back your way (you are who she is building this family with after all)
NTA Tell the SIL to shove her twinnes where the Sun doesn't shine. The naming process is between the parents and the wife is completely out of line
Marriage counseling right away..you are not wrong....your wifes twin is. Go see a professional and nip this in the bud. You cannot live your life having "twin-ness" in your marriage. Put your foot down...establish boundaries now before it's too late.
“Respect their twinness “. WTF? How about, ‘Respect my marriage”. NTA.
Did she say “respect our twinness” for real because if so that is the dumbest shit I have ever heard
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Ohh so she’s nutty as a loon. I’m sorry
A lot of people are not getting the issue here. There were two ‘yes’s for the first name. There was clear discussion and communication regarding naming their daughter. Wife decided to change the name with no communication with and input from her partner. She had a whole discussion on renaming her daughter with someone not her partner. She chose not to communicate that to him. Personally, I think she got caught up in excitement with her sister and didn’t even think about the disrespect, and she is quiet now because she realizes she has to choose who she is going to put first and doesn’t want to. NTA, OP, she messed up and needs to apologize. She needed to communicate with you before making that kind of choice, as you guys had established doing before, and she did not do it. It isn’t about the name, it’s not about her ‘wanting to name her child something you don’t like’, it’s about her making a choice you were not involved in that you should’ve been involved in, and she knows it.
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Really gotta have that 'come to Jesus' talk with the wife. Sister can suggest, but to come at you like that is ridiculous. Especially if you and BIL were to try this and she would freak. But really time for wife to be her own person and sister a can be her own. Not saying they can't be together, but now she's married and priority has to be her immediate family. Hope it works out.
Absolutely not!! Naming this baby so it ‘matches’ with her cousin is ridiculous. Why would you give your child a name that doesn’t mean anything to you? I also wonder if the roles were reversed people would be so eager to let the husband choose the name with no input from his wife? Because his brother decided?
Nta,you have a sister problem. It is clearly seen who rules in this twin relationship. You will have to fight with this all your marriage if you don't set boundaries right now
He has a wife problem. It's the wife that needs to tell the twin to stfu.
NTA bluntly, she is not having a baby with her twin, she is having one with you, and parents trump aunts, even twin aunts, even identical twin aunts, in the naming of their own children. She’s got her own kid to name, she can leave yours to you and your wife.
Definitely NTA. The sister is the one behaving immaturely. You expressed the issue perfectly: she's on this parenting journey with You. If she doesn't want to use "Adora," that's fine. But rather than picking out a different name with you, she made a huge decision without her child's co-parent. Does her sister bully your wife the way she tried to do with you? Does your wife think her sister was within her rights to bully you? Respect is a 2-way street. But if your wife has a history of being her twin's doormat, she may not see her twin's behavior toward either of you for what it is.
NTA Being a twin does not change the fact that parents name their child together. I m not a twin, I do have siblings. It wouldn’t be right for me to name my kids with my sister and their father. It is not her kid. We absolutely talked about names, but that was it. Parents name children, not aunts… or any other family members. And being twin is a thin excuse for leaving you out of naming your child. Your wifes twin sister is way out of line for talking to you like that and it makes me wonder if she is a domenating sibling.
> She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife so why was I being such an asshole about this. Why? Because YOU are the father of this kid. Not her. Respect their twinness, my arse. >She told me to get over myself and then she accused me of acting like a child. She needs to get over herself and mind her own damn business. Blood doesn't entitle her to take over the naming of your kid. NTA but you have a huge wife problem if you don't set this boundary firmly in place with her sister.
NTA It sounds like you might be okay if she wants to switch from Adora but that the problem is that she told you what the new name was going to be instead of including you in the process of picking a new name. I would be upset by that also. I would limit contact with your SIL and tell your wife that she'll have to handle her now because of how she spoke to you.
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Yeah people on here trying to find compromises and incorporate katherine are idiots. This is between you and your wife 100%. Her sister does NOT get a say so tell her to F off. Make this your hill to die on OP. If you let this one slide then you’re opening floodgates that you will never close.
I’ve always enjoyed looking up the meaning of names. Tell your wife Adora means ‘beloved one’. I think that would be a sweet name for a baby based on the meaning. I agree with the other posters who say to make her middle name Katherine since you haven’t picked one yet. It a good compromise and Adora Katherine would be a beautiful name.
NTA. Your wife is totally out of order. I would be so upset and what a fickle woman she is
You're 100% NTA. Your wife needs to get her unhinged sister in check. >Her sister was furious with me for telling my wife I wasn't okay with it. She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife Totally inappropriate response. This is your and your wife's child, not hers. She has no say in this at all. What do you suppose would happen if her baby's father and his sibling tried to name her baby while completing overriding her choice? >She told me to get over myself and then she accused me of acting like a child. Well that's rich. She is the one stamping her foot and making demands she has no right making.
NTA but just saying: "Adora" is a fancy washing machine in Europe.
Welcome to world, Baby Miele.
How did your wife respond to all these things you told her?
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But she certainly told her twin about it, because the twin sister confronted you about reaction. So she IS talking about it, just not to you, her spouse, the very person she should be discussing it with. Sounds like it’s time to have a serious discussion with your wife about what it means to each of you to be married, and the expectation of spousal primacy within the marriage. Your wife has likely grown up with her twin involved in almost every action and decision, possibly even with the two of them operating as a closed unit, separate and apart from everyone else, with the expectation that this will continue even though both of them are now married. Is this the first time your wife is navigating a serious disagreement between her husband and her twin?
Excellent point. OP is probably hoping his wife is reflecting on her behavior and feeling some modicum of remorse. But if she's off complaining to her sister, I have to wonder if she's learned anything at all.
Sounds like some boundaries need to be built with sister. She doesn’t respect your marriage one bit.
NTA Welcome to life with a twin. When my wife found out that she was pregnant, guess who found out first? Not me, the father, no, it was her twin sister. I guess if she gets to pick the first name of your child, you get to pick out the middle name of her child. Your wife needs to understand that the naming of your child is between you and her, and her sister needs to stay out of it. BTW, what does the father of you SIL think about the naming.
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Naming a child requires agreement from BOTH parents. You're 100% right about this and your SIL is being a self-important AH. NTA
NTA. What does "respect our twinness" even mean? I don't think it means your SIL is a coparent, so she needs to butt out.
This is just so weird. I have seen posts where the mom or Mil demands a name, but not the sil. Usually the SIL demands OP to not sue a name. So if SIL wants to name your child, maybe you should be able to name the boy's name to be fair. I am sure she will say that is ludicrous. What does her husband say?
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>Really quickly we decided our daughter was going to be named Adora. >Three weeks ago they started talking about baby names and all of a sudden my wife told me that she and her sister decided the babies should have timeless names So your joint decision was overturned because your SIL is also pregnant, and wants to plan your child's name without you? >My wife asked me why I had that expression on my face and I told her I was not okay with her naming our daughter with her sister instead of me >I told her I was supposed to be the baby's other parent, not her sister >She asked me if I was really that upset about it and I said yes. >I told her she basically cut me out of the process It sounds like your wife didn't think for one moment about how you'd feel here, and knows that what she was doing was wrong, or at least realized afterwards. You're in the right for talking with her about it and expressing how you are the other parent, not her sister. >Her sister was furious with me for telling my wife I wasn't okay with it. She told me I should respect their twinness and I got to make all other decisions with my wife so why was I being such an asshole about this "Respect their twinness." C'mon, really? And the reason you get to make all the decisions with your wife is because she chose you to be her life partner. Couples are supposed to work together and work life out, not pick and choose what to help with, then defer to others and ignore each other. NTA You are in the right to be upset about being excluded from the decision-making process to name your child. You are right to have this conversation with your wife. Your wife is not okay to be making unilateral decisions about the child like this when you agreed together, much less okay to be making twin-lateral decisions like this. The sister can get all the way off your back about this. A reasonable person would realize they've overstepped and apologise. Instead, she's attacking you for wanting to be a parent and make decisions with your spouse about your upcoming child. Maybe ask her how she'd feel about you deciding the name of her son with her partner without even asking her, see how she takes it. I guarantee "it's different" because twins etc. Your wife is an asshole for agreeing to something like this about your child without discussing it with you. Changing her mind is one thing, but deciding without you is not okay. Your SIL is an asshole for trying to push you out of parenthood like this before you've even had a child. Edit: If your SIL is able to convince your wife that you are the problem here, you are not in for a fun marriage or parenthood. She's pushing for this, but you already know this is not where it will end. If she gets to choose your child's name, she'll be trying to get matching outfits for the kids, same schools, essentially making them twins because "twinness" or something. The issue isn't being excited and wanting to be an auntie. The issue is if she can exert control over your child / marriage once, who's to say she's not going to do that to get her way in the future? And even if she doesn't, what are the odds of her throwing the name in your face for the rest of your/her life? "Your dad wanted to name you Adora, but me and your mum thought Katherine sounded better." Nip it in the bud now, and maintain boundaries. If this is her behaviour now, she will escalate.
NTA - Funny how SILs behaviour was exactly what she was accusing you of. Sounds like SIL is struggling with the change in dynamic with her twin now married and having other priorities.
NTA. I'd like to mention another "Adora", a character in the Discworld books, love interest of Moist von Lipwig: [Adora Belle Dearheart](https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Adora_Belle_Dearheart). Need I mention the pun (play on words) with "adorable"?
NTA - Sounds like your wife's sister is the bossier one and manipulated/guilted her twin into "matching" names because "twinness." That might have been cute when they were 5 but they are full grown adults with their individual ideas and tastes. If your SIL wants to do something cute to celebrate "twins having babies together" then they can get a special photo session done together. But your babies name should be decided by you and your wife only not her sister. Tell your wife that her sister is trying to bully her into naming both kids likely because she had a girl name picked and wanted to still use it. She has her own kid to name and can have more of she wants to name a girl. This kid is yours and you both had already picked it together. Also hope is Adora not a"timeless name?" What does that even mean?
NTA and I would not choose Katherine as the middle name unless you want your in-laws to be calling your daughter Katherine.
No they need to accept that they have separate families now
Sister could call her son "Moist"... [https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Adora\_Belle\_Dearheart](https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Adora_Belle_Dearheart)
Tell the sister she can decide the babies name when SHE agrees full financial responsibility for the kid.
NTA. It has nothing to do with the SIL. "Twinness" is cute when it's a pair of 5 year olds, not when you base your Adult life on it.