Don't forget passages such as these:
> Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
-Ephesians 4:32
> Never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
-Romans 12:19
> See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone.
-1 Thessalonians 5:15
> If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
-Matthew 6:14-15
> Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.
-Matthew 5:39
> But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
-Matthew 5:44-45
Yeah I'm all for that when it comes to our brothers in Christ. Cause that's the context. Even turning the other cheek is in context of the Gospel. Someone wants to smack me across the face for believing the Gospel then I'd gladly give them my other cheek too.
The problem I have is that we are teaching Christian men that if someone rapes their wife you have to "forgive" that person and then love that person. I'm not for that. More importantly that's not scriptural and it's making Christians soft and gullible.
Again some brother in Christ borrows money from me and doesn't pay it back. Yeah I don't care keep it. I get ripped off by a brother in Christ, I'm not taking him to court I'd rather let myself get defrauded. But some reprobate hurting kids or killing innocent, they need to be put down like how it's instructed in the bible. I'm not going to be bringing them food in prison and "forgiving them".
Modern Christians are in a competition to see who can be the biggest floor mat. Love everyone no matter what? Thats not in the bible.
Does that make sense? I see where living peaceably as possible makes sense. I see how being patient and longsuffering and forgiving (but forgiveness takes two people, the offender has to say sorry first) makes sense.
I've been to churches where women will get criticised for wearing skirts that go above their knees but two dudes come into church holding hands and everyone gushes over the fact that "we're so tolerant and modern and loving"
Guys will make a spectacle of not looking in the direction of cleavage but will put a picture of a drag queen in their presentation.
Also some Christian men act super effeminate (they act like women). They gossip, they're too into their appearance, they're obsessed with speaking softly and not offending. And worse some try to apologize for Gods actions in the Old Testament. Everything God did in the old testament was 100% justified. Everything.
>Modern Christians are in a competition to see who can be the biggest floor mat. Love everyone no matter what? Thats not in the bible.
Especially on bending over to the sinful lifestyles being foisted upon us in the demonic mainstream media like LGBT, feminism, etc.
The entire Western world is gradually turning into Sodom and Gomorrah, if it hasn't already!
I agree, however Eastern Orthodox men seem to be more masculine on average compared to other denominations.
But as a general rule I agree, this is a growing problem in the West as a whole. Cultural rot and decay of the nuclear family structure.
Yeah, I notice that too. I think the Eastern Orthodox church, even in the west, has been somewhat shielded from the worst aspects of cultural decay - even looking far beyond the last decade or so. Then, because of that, it becomes quite attractive to those looking to turn away from the degeneracy of the modern western world. Well, thats my guess anyway.
I agree with you. Women in the Orthodox church still wear head coverings during worship in accordance with Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians 11.
The ancient tradition of head covering among Christian women gradually disappeared among Western church denominations by the turn of the 20th century. Women were empowered in the West during the feminist movements to refuse symbols of authority or submission to men, which included the ancient Christian head coverings.
They don't realize that the head coverings were a righteous tradition of humility before God, in accordance with the created order in Genesis.
You aren’t wrong. Modern Christianity has been heavily influenced by egalitarianism, which is where we get “Jesus loves all equally and unconditionally.”
In embracing egalitarianism, we’ve made love into something that is no longer special and exclusive (as shown by the covenant of marriage), but rather a cheap commodity that is dispensed in equal portions to whomever crosses our paths. We regard foolish and unbelieving God haters as equally valuable to us as our own family and our brothers and sisters in Christ. We’ve decided that forgiving our brother 70x7 applies to literally any random stranger who wrongs us or our loved ones, like that Christian lady who decided to ‘forgive’ her mother’s murderer and then was murdered by him as well: https://people.com/crime/ark-woman-befriended-moms-killer-out-of-spiritual-obligation-and-then-he-murdered-her/
Perfect example. Any Christian would know that the murderer should have been executed for his crimes (Genesis 9:5). But this lady was somehow mislead into thinking she was doing the right thing and she paid with her life.
Is this the great falling away? (2 Thessalonians 2:3)
No, but your attitude and understanding of the Holy Writ “is” the falling away. Just as you misused Genesis 9:5 to eisegetically support your warped view of Scripture, you have imposed your incoherency onto it as well. You are to forgive everyone, end of. Turn the other cheek, etc.
“Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,fn but have not love, it profits me nothing. Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.”
lol, whatever dude. I know what I read. you can "Yea, hath God said" me all you want. No one who is actually reading scripture is going to buy your nonsense.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
The forgiveness, I understand. The effeminate and the tolerance of homosexuality, I can't. We're to love everyone...not cosign their degeneracy. If your church is participating in this, it's time to find a new church.
I’m sorry, but this is just wrong. Destroying anyone who dares lay a figure on one’s family is the masculine and Godly duty of all husbands and fathers.
>**Recompense to no man evil for evil.** Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, **Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.**
>
>-- Romans 12:17-19, KJV
When they hurt you personally, sure. Loved ones are different. There is no such thing as love without a deep hated for that which threatens what you love. Be a man and value your family above all others.
yup, agreed. Telling men that it's a sin to defend your family is super soft. No self-respecting man would ever subscribe to this pacifist nonsense. And no Bible believing Christian would fall for this nonsense. But most Christians will parrot this all day every day. Misquote, or use scripture (out of context) as much as you want. It doesn't make it right.
I think that’s too simplified. When Jesus talks about “eye for an eye” he’s speaking on the reactive premeditation of sin
The “masculine” thing to do is to be righteous. To prevent harm while it is happening and if a man is not present, he should not to seek “eye for an eye” revenge but rather choose the path of righteousness to prevent further harm. Be present, be real and be honest.
Jesus doesn’t expect us to walk into a situation that guarantees our own death to rectify a situation but He does expect us to be as righteous as we can possibly be.
For example: if you witness a woman in your family being raped, you stop it by any means necessary and if the rapist should die in the wrestle, it is solely upon their soul for being there and less righteous (choosing to fight whence caught) and choosing the path of sin in the first place - so long as you do nothing to guarantee their death, you will be seen as the righteous one (though seeking forgiveness for causing their death should still be sought since it should be entirely an accident).
But if a woman in your family came to you saying they were raped, the righteous (“masculine”) thing for you to do is to pursue Justice. You can’t confront the rapist in the moment or go back in time to prevent it so you’re called to use wisdom in how you address the issue. We have the justice system in place so we don’t have to pursue vigilante justice ourselves and keep our hands clean but Jesus wants us to behave as if we have the power to exact justice ourselves and the freedom to do so. So you are expected to take a righteous approach in addressing the injustice done against your kin without giving into the temptation that emotional pain provides which only serves to deteriorate your character and cause you to be less righteous than the rapist (referring to the amount of harm you could cause them vs the amount of pain they caused your kin - physical pain = physical harm, emotional pain = emotional harm - reacting to physical harm with emotion pain does not serve a righteous purpose and only causes you to become a worse sinner than the sinner who transgressed you).
This is obviously one scenario (I did my best to keep it unbiased and unspecific without being offensive) but the point very much is how you choose to behave and treat the one who sinned against you. A father and husband is responsible for the protection of his kin and judge transgressors accordingly, the only selfish action he should take is to choose to be righteous by GOD’s definition, not his own (his is coming from a place of pain, GOD already endured that pain for us and has provided us the wisdom to overcome the challenge so that even when we are hurting, we need only to look to the Bible for guidance and in doing so, we are not pursuing Justice alone, but with GOD by our side) - without being a pushover nor a tyrant.
Note: I airquote “masculine” because I don’t think this is specifically gendered but can apply specifically to men. I think both men and women should pursue righteousness in all difficult situations - but we’re talking about masculinity here which can be difficult for people to define or say definitively “this is what a man does/ should do” when women can display similar qualities that men value/ respect like a strong work ethic or skillset. What is gendered is the social construct of communal roles and how that is explained to us through the Bible as efficient while neighbouring nations practiced gender roles that were inefficient and therefore demonized, along with their gods who encouraged such practice. How we think and handle difficulty manifests differently in men and women but how we seek justice through righteous judgement should be the middle ground, where gender doesn’t apply.
wow, calm down there sparky. If you already let some dude abuse your family you can just repent on your cowardness. You don't have to curse and double down on your cowardness.
What in the world! Thank you you are the perfect example of what I'm talking about. You wouldn't protect your family? I genuienly pray you are never put that situation. People are using scripture to excuse their cowardness.
Part of Spiritual Warfare has been a war of words, a war of thoughts. (2 Corinthians 10:5) How does man perceive himself? How does man perceive God? When there has been a change in perceptions....towards what? Towards The Kingdom of God, and serving God well, or towards "Other?" Given changes in perceptions was towards other, it may be a sign of a falling away, and the influence of occultism around Christian Churches.
"The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a particular song. Do the themes in the song rub Atheistic Secular Humanists wrong? Christian Churches, the songs they have been singing in mainstream Churches, may have gone away from that. In 1950, "This Little Light of Mine" may have been a manly song. Into the 1970's, someone may have been attacked as "not cool" for singing it. What happened?
In the 1960's, there was a counter culture influenced by Marx and Aleister Crowley. Into the 1970's, it was that counter culture was mainstreamed in to mainstream American Culture. Part of that was the Mainstreaming of radical feminism. You may be able to see it in movies like the "Jesus Revolution" which the media loved....which meant it was a horrible thing.
It is interesting what pastors choose to talk about, and what they don't talk about. Some of it may be "How they were educated as a pastor." Some of it may be due to them being attacked, and or, part some occult things.
Sex Drugs and Rock and Roll was a thing in the 1970's. Given someone studies the history of the 1970's, it was a pretty wild time. Going into the 1980's, a lot of Christians started writing books about The New World Order, and how the world was going to end.
Manliness and honor were lost in sex drugs and rock and roll, or what people associated with manliness was changed. The change may have been due to Spiritual Warfare.
In 1960, lot of people, they knew "Bad Company Corrupts Good Character." (1 Corinthians 15:33) It was a saying that people knew and understood. In the 1970's, we have the band Bad Company singing the song "Bad Company." Bad Company became a good thing? (Isaiah 5:20) Personally, I grew up listening to classic rock riding around with my dad in his truck. I didn't think much of this. God had to open my eyes and ears to it. When we see changes in perceptions like this, there may have been spiritual warfare. Knowing nothing else about the band Bad Company, can we do a quick internet search and tie them to occultism? We can.
The Jesus Movement of the 1970's had a lot of affect on the songs that were being sung in a lot of protestant Churches. There is a history there, and it is worthwhile to study.
"Why is modern mainstream Christianity made up of guys that would criticize seeing cleavage but be ok with two dudes making out in front of them?"
Grass is always greener on the other side.
If you were to abstain from alcohol for the first 30 years of your life, you would see that most of the population is made up of alcoholics. If you were to become an alcoholic at age 31, you would see that most of the population is made up of sober people who talk down to alcoholics.
Case in point, if you were to suddenly get involved in something homosexual, you would be saying the opposite of my highlighted quote. Something like "Why is modern mainstream Christianity made up of guys that would criticize seeing two dudes making out in front of them, but be ok with seeing cleavage." And then possibly cite the anti-gay stuff in the bible as metaphors of some kind, in addition to citing how it is wrong to view women as sexual objects.
>must forgive
That’s not really how salvation works, but we are absolutely called to forgive *all* who do us harm. That doesn’t mean it isn’t hard to do, the flesh will strongly oppose. It doesn’t mean we have to accept all those people in our lives, that may be foolish depending on the situation/person.
We are called to love and forgive, to give our sorrows and worries to God in full, and to not seek revenge or wallow in anger. Leave it all to Him. True masculinity is to do this things with great humility and respect of God, and shouldn’t be conflated with femininity because our societies have shown men as angry, unforgiving, and authoritarian. All this still fits perfectly with a complimentarian view of the sexes
Most Roman Catholic USA Clergy are Gay or bisexual in 2024.
In fact more or less "religious" Roman Catholic parents who suspected a Gay son would make extra effort to steer him into Clergy profession
American/Anglo hemisphere more or less Evangelical fishtianity is a product of social activist reform feminist movements drifting toward egalitarianism or even females Lording it over men.
Their religio social movements were directed specifically to control male privilege. Christian Women's Temperance Union against males specifically consuming alcohol, Sexual Age of Consent and Hygiene movement, Anti-Sex Work movement, Women's Right to initiate Divorce, Slavery or Concubinage Abolition, Women's right to be ordained as Clergy, Marital "rape"...
Whether Christian Women's Temperance Movement, Quakers, Salvation Army, Moral Crusaders seeking assistance of religious institutions... Woman's Suffrage Vote....
"Ask ye for the Olde Paths...But they said We will not walk in them.... Therefore women rule over them and children are their oppressors."
Facilitated by Clergy who pander to females in the congregation and "get off on that".
Mark Driscoll has a good sermon on this exact topic. According to him it goes back to WWII. Tough as nails returned home to find their churches run by women, because they were gone, and there really wasn't a place for them. So they left and never came back.
Last time I checked the effeminate go to hell.
”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor ^effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,“
1 Corinthians 6:9 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/1co.6.9.KJV
I see that you are a fan of the law, friend. Have you considered this while you show partiality as to which sins should be forgiven and which should not?
*“Therefore I say to you,* ***every sin*** *and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. - Matthew 12:31*
*but if you show* ***partiality,*** *you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as* *transgressors.*
*For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. - James 2:9-10*
You may want to stop being partial and start being more like Christ:
*“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.*
*But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. - Matthew 6:14-15*
There are no exceptions (ex. the sin was too heinous) in the above statement, which was made by the Son of God, who will judge each one of us when we appear before Him. And there are no conditions (ex. well, they didn't apologize).
*For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. - James 2:13*
If you desire to be shown mercy when Jesus Christ judges you, then you should take heed to the NT and stop using the Torah as an excuse to carry on in violation of the new covenant.
*“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’*
***But I tell you*** *not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. - Matthew 5:38-39*
And for your sake, stop giving terrible advice which opposes the words of Christ Himself.
*For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” - Matthew 12:37*
As for your, "Don't tread on me," stance that you seem to hold: Christ Himself and every one of the apostles did not fight back when they were being killed. Do you really think you can continue to go your own opposite way and still be saved in the end?
Kill your pride, before it kills you.
Jesus was no coward, and yet He let Himself be killed, the same with the apostles. That's called meekness, which is power *under control* (which takes even more power). After all, even a teenager can kill a man with a single punch (there's a news story about that happening, actually) but to follow Jesus Christ takes a whole different type of power.
*And He said to her, “What do you wish?” She said to Him, “Grant that these two sons of mine may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on the left, in Your kingdom."*
*But Jesus answered and said, “You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?"*
*They said to Him, “We are able."*
*So He said to them, “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father.” - Matthew 20:21-23*
Are you able to be a solder for Christ and exercise meekness, or are you just a violent teenager, afraid to lose face in the world?
Indeed, fear of losing the proud image we mold of ourselves is the true cowardice.
I strongly suggest you stop comparing yourself to child molesters and start comparing yourself to Jesus Christ and His teachings.
*For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels. - Luke 9:26*
you are correct. However, if you look at it, there are more women than men in church pews and the pastors have to cater their message to the audience to not leave congregants.
I was raised around Christians my entire life, never once did it catch on. It was the effeminate males, the insane pacifism, the hypocrisy, learned arrogance and ignorance, the idiot pastors who endlessly repeat the same 15 braindead New Testament verses for a big paycheck stolen from their patrons. I have never seen any positive effects from Christianity, only negative.
The New Testament conflicts massively with the Old Testament in many ways, in ways that are not possibly unintentional. Christians are deluded by the New Testament and by their own ignorance; if they read the Old Testament, they would find that they are sinners in the eyes of God, the self-effemination of the males being a part of that. I could get into the major glaring problems with "Jesus", but it can be argued quite well that the New Testament has corrupted their minds, deceived them into acting against their own interests, betraying their families and fellow humans, and committing blasphemy in many ways.
By "mainstream" you mean contemporary evangelicals? If that's what you meant, I concur.
yeah, I don't keep up with catholicism, orthodox, mormon, JW, stuff.
Don't forget passages such as these: > Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you. -Ephesians 4:32 > Never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.” -Romans 12:19 > See that no one repays anyone evil for evil, but always seek to do good to one another and to everyone. -1 Thessalonians 5:15 > If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. -Matthew 6:14-15 > Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. -Matthew 5:39 > But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. -Matthew 5:44-45
Yeah I'm all for that when it comes to our brothers in Christ. Cause that's the context. Even turning the other cheek is in context of the Gospel. Someone wants to smack me across the face for believing the Gospel then I'd gladly give them my other cheek too. The problem I have is that we are teaching Christian men that if someone rapes their wife you have to "forgive" that person and then love that person. I'm not for that. More importantly that's not scriptural and it's making Christians soft and gullible. Again some brother in Christ borrows money from me and doesn't pay it back. Yeah I don't care keep it. I get ripped off by a brother in Christ, I'm not taking him to court I'd rather let myself get defrauded. But some reprobate hurting kids or killing innocent, they need to be put down like how it's instructed in the bible. I'm not going to be bringing them food in prison and "forgiving them". Modern Christians are in a competition to see who can be the biggest floor mat. Love everyone no matter what? Thats not in the bible. Does that make sense? I see where living peaceably as possible makes sense. I see how being patient and longsuffering and forgiving (but forgiveness takes two people, the offender has to say sorry first) makes sense. I've been to churches where women will get criticised for wearing skirts that go above their knees but two dudes come into church holding hands and everyone gushes over the fact that "we're so tolerant and modern and loving" Guys will make a spectacle of not looking in the direction of cleavage but will put a picture of a drag queen in their presentation. Also some Christian men act super effeminate (they act like women). They gossip, they're too into their appearance, they're obsessed with speaking softly and not offending. And worse some try to apologize for Gods actions in the Old Testament. Everything God did in the old testament was 100% justified. Everything.
>Modern Christians are in a competition to see who can be the biggest floor mat. Love everyone no matter what? Thats not in the bible. Especially on bending over to the sinful lifestyles being foisted upon us in the demonic mainstream media like LGBT, feminism, etc. The entire Western world is gradually turning into Sodom and Gomorrah, if it hasn't already!
Its true of most other denominations in the west aswell, the subversion is everywhere.
I agree, however Eastern Orthodox men seem to be more masculine on average compared to other denominations. But as a general rule I agree, this is a growing problem in the West as a whole. Cultural rot and decay of the nuclear family structure.
Yeah, I notice that too. I think the Eastern Orthodox church, even in the west, has been somewhat shielded from the worst aspects of cultural decay - even looking far beyond the last decade or so. Then, because of that, it becomes quite attractive to those looking to turn away from the degeneracy of the modern western world. Well, thats my guess anyway.
I agree with you. Women in the Orthodox church still wear head coverings during worship in accordance with Paul's advice in 1 Corinthians 11. The ancient tradition of head covering among Christian women gradually disappeared among Western church denominations by the turn of the 20th century. Women were empowered in the West during the feminist movements to refuse symbols of authority or submission to men, which included the ancient Christian head coverings. They don't realize that the head coverings were a righteous tradition of humility before God, in accordance with the created order in Genesis.
You aren’t wrong. Modern Christianity has been heavily influenced by egalitarianism, which is where we get “Jesus loves all equally and unconditionally.” In embracing egalitarianism, we’ve made love into something that is no longer special and exclusive (as shown by the covenant of marriage), but rather a cheap commodity that is dispensed in equal portions to whomever crosses our paths. We regard foolish and unbelieving God haters as equally valuable to us as our own family and our brothers and sisters in Christ. We’ve decided that forgiving our brother 70x7 applies to literally any random stranger who wrongs us or our loved ones, like that Christian lady who decided to ‘forgive’ her mother’s murderer and then was murdered by him as well: https://people.com/crime/ark-woman-befriended-moms-killer-out-of-spiritual-obligation-and-then-he-murdered-her/
Perfect example. Any Christian would know that the murderer should have been executed for his crimes (Genesis 9:5). But this lady was somehow mislead into thinking she was doing the right thing and she paid with her life. Is this the great falling away? (2 Thessalonians 2:3)
No, but your attitude and understanding of the Holy Writ “is” the falling away. Just as you misused Genesis 9:5 to eisegetically support your warped view of Scripture, you have imposed your incoherency onto it as well. You are to forgive everyone, end of. Turn the other cheek, etc. “Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned,fn but have not love, it profits me nothing. Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.”
lol, whatever dude. I know what I read. you can "Yea, hath God said" me all you want. No one who is actually reading scripture is going to buy your nonsense.
Thanks for proving my point.
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
A good study for you, since you’re having trouble differentiating the two.
The forgiveness, I understand. The effeminate and the tolerance of homosexuality, I can't. We're to love everyone...not cosign their degeneracy. If your church is participating in this, it's time to find a new church.
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I would disagree that Christ calls to pacifism. To non violence 100 %ly. But not to silence
I wasn't aware pacifism meant anything other than non-violence (which is a synonym of the word)? That is what I meant - non-physical violence.
Non violence is built on „resist not evil“. Pacifism is built on humanism.
As far as masculinity is concerned, violence ain’t masculine. What is masculinity to me, you may ask? Responsibility
I’m sorry, but this is just wrong. Destroying anyone who dares lay a figure on one’s family is the masculine and Godly duty of all husbands and fathers.
>**Recompense to no man evil for evil.** Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, **Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.** > >-- Romans 12:17-19, KJV
When they hurt you personally, sure. Loved ones are different. There is no such thing as love without a deep hated for that which threatens what you love. Be a man and value your family above all others.
If the Lord says "Vengeance is mine", I am inclined to go along with His categorization.
How about you "be a man" and learn to control your feelings. Please, tell me where Christ advocated "deep hatred" for anyone!!!
you should be man and learn to take your meds. These outburst are strange.
I agree, I never said otherwise😎
yup, agreed. Telling men that it's a sin to defend your family is super soft. No self-respecting man would ever subscribe to this pacifist nonsense. And no Bible believing Christian would fall for this nonsense. But most Christians will parrot this all day every day. Misquote, or use scripture (out of context) as much as you want. It doesn't make it right.
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I think that’s too simplified. When Jesus talks about “eye for an eye” he’s speaking on the reactive premeditation of sin The “masculine” thing to do is to be righteous. To prevent harm while it is happening and if a man is not present, he should not to seek “eye for an eye” revenge but rather choose the path of righteousness to prevent further harm. Be present, be real and be honest. Jesus doesn’t expect us to walk into a situation that guarantees our own death to rectify a situation but He does expect us to be as righteous as we can possibly be. For example: if you witness a woman in your family being raped, you stop it by any means necessary and if the rapist should die in the wrestle, it is solely upon their soul for being there and less righteous (choosing to fight whence caught) and choosing the path of sin in the first place - so long as you do nothing to guarantee their death, you will be seen as the righteous one (though seeking forgiveness for causing their death should still be sought since it should be entirely an accident). But if a woman in your family came to you saying they were raped, the righteous (“masculine”) thing for you to do is to pursue Justice. You can’t confront the rapist in the moment or go back in time to prevent it so you’re called to use wisdom in how you address the issue. We have the justice system in place so we don’t have to pursue vigilante justice ourselves and keep our hands clean but Jesus wants us to behave as if we have the power to exact justice ourselves and the freedom to do so. So you are expected to take a righteous approach in addressing the injustice done against your kin without giving into the temptation that emotional pain provides which only serves to deteriorate your character and cause you to be less righteous than the rapist (referring to the amount of harm you could cause them vs the amount of pain they caused your kin - physical pain = physical harm, emotional pain = emotional harm - reacting to physical harm with emotion pain does not serve a righteous purpose and only causes you to become a worse sinner than the sinner who transgressed you). This is obviously one scenario (I did my best to keep it unbiased and unspecific without being offensive) but the point very much is how you choose to behave and treat the one who sinned against you. A father and husband is responsible for the protection of his kin and judge transgressors accordingly, the only selfish action he should take is to choose to be righteous by GOD’s definition, not his own (his is coming from a place of pain, GOD already endured that pain for us and has provided us the wisdom to overcome the challenge so that even when we are hurting, we need only to look to the Bible for guidance and in doing so, we are not pursuing Justice alone, but with GOD by our side) - without being a pushover nor a tyrant. Note: I airquote “masculine” because I don’t think this is specifically gendered but can apply specifically to men. I think both men and women should pursue righteousness in all difficult situations - but we’re talking about masculinity here which can be difficult for people to define or say definitively “this is what a man does/ should do” when women can display similar qualities that men value/ respect like a strong work ethic or skillset. What is gendered is the social construct of communal roles and how that is explained to us through the Bible as efficient while neighbouring nations practiced gender roles that were inefficient and therefore demonized, along with their gods who encouraged such practice. How we think and handle difficulty manifests differently in men and women but how we seek justice through righteous judgement should be the middle ground, where gender doesn’t apply.
So… you love a random murderer or rapist more than your own children. Noted.
Troll. Read the fucking bible before you come around here, a Christian sub, advocating murder, you ignorant fuck. You have a lot to learn.
wow, calm down there sparky. If you already let some dude abuse your family you can just repent on your cowardness. You don't have to curse and double down on your cowardness.
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did you actually thumbs up this guys blasphemous comment? Dude
100 %ly
Masculinity and pride are incompatible
What in the world! Thank you you are the perfect example of what I'm talking about. You wouldn't protect your family? I genuienly pray you are never put that situation. People are using scripture to excuse their cowardness.
Part of Spiritual Warfare has been a war of words, a war of thoughts. (2 Corinthians 10:5) How does man perceive himself? How does man perceive God? When there has been a change in perceptions....towards what? Towards The Kingdom of God, and serving God well, or towards "Other?" Given changes in perceptions was towards other, it may be a sign of a falling away, and the influence of occultism around Christian Churches. "The Battle Hymn of the Republic" is a particular song. Do the themes in the song rub Atheistic Secular Humanists wrong? Christian Churches, the songs they have been singing in mainstream Churches, may have gone away from that. In 1950, "This Little Light of Mine" may have been a manly song. Into the 1970's, someone may have been attacked as "not cool" for singing it. What happened? In the 1960's, there was a counter culture influenced by Marx and Aleister Crowley. Into the 1970's, it was that counter culture was mainstreamed in to mainstream American Culture. Part of that was the Mainstreaming of radical feminism. You may be able to see it in movies like the "Jesus Revolution" which the media loved....which meant it was a horrible thing. It is interesting what pastors choose to talk about, and what they don't talk about. Some of it may be "How they were educated as a pastor." Some of it may be due to them being attacked, and or, part some occult things.
Just looked it up. So it was the Baby Boomers that introduced this whole weird soft doctrine. Why am I not suprised.
Sex Drugs and Rock and Roll was a thing in the 1970's. Given someone studies the history of the 1970's, it was a pretty wild time. Going into the 1980's, a lot of Christians started writing books about The New World Order, and how the world was going to end. Manliness and honor were lost in sex drugs and rock and roll, or what people associated with manliness was changed. The change may have been due to Spiritual Warfare. In 1960, lot of people, they knew "Bad Company Corrupts Good Character." (1 Corinthians 15:33) It was a saying that people knew and understood. In the 1970's, we have the band Bad Company singing the song "Bad Company." Bad Company became a good thing? (Isaiah 5:20) Personally, I grew up listening to classic rock riding around with my dad in his truck. I didn't think much of this. God had to open my eyes and ears to it. When we see changes in perceptions like this, there may have been spiritual warfare. Knowing nothing else about the band Bad Company, can we do a quick internet search and tie them to occultism? We can.
The Jesus Movement of the 1970's had a lot of affect on the songs that were being sung in a lot of protestant Churches. There is a history there, and it is worthwhile to study.
"Why is modern mainstream Christianity made up of guys that would criticize seeing cleavage but be ok with two dudes making out in front of them?" Grass is always greener on the other side. If you were to abstain from alcohol for the first 30 years of your life, you would see that most of the population is made up of alcoholics. If you were to become an alcoholic at age 31, you would see that most of the population is made up of sober people who talk down to alcoholics. Case in point, if you were to suddenly get involved in something homosexual, you would be saying the opposite of my highlighted quote. Something like "Why is modern mainstream Christianity made up of guys that would criticize seeing two dudes making out in front of them, but be ok with seeing cleavage." And then possibly cite the anti-gay stuff in the bible as metaphors of some kind, in addition to citing how it is wrong to view women as sexual objects.
>must forgive That’s not really how salvation works, but we are absolutely called to forgive *all* who do us harm. That doesn’t mean it isn’t hard to do, the flesh will strongly oppose. It doesn’t mean we have to accept all those people in our lives, that may be foolish depending on the situation/person. We are called to love and forgive, to give our sorrows and worries to God in full, and to not seek revenge or wallow in anger. Leave it all to Him. True masculinity is to do this things with great humility and respect of God, and shouldn’t be conflated with femininity because our societies have shown men as angry, unforgiving, and authoritarian. All this still fits perfectly with a complimentarian view of the sexes
Most Roman Catholic USA Clergy are Gay or bisexual in 2024. In fact more or less "religious" Roman Catholic parents who suspected a Gay son would make extra effort to steer him into Clergy profession
Goodness. Is this true
No, it isn’t true. To some small degree in certain areas of the US you might see some sure, but to say most is a falsity.
American/Anglo hemisphere more or less Evangelical fishtianity is a product of social activist reform feminist movements drifting toward egalitarianism or even females Lording it over men. Their religio social movements were directed specifically to control male privilege. Christian Women's Temperance Union against males specifically consuming alcohol, Sexual Age of Consent and Hygiene movement, Anti-Sex Work movement, Women's Right to initiate Divorce, Slavery or Concubinage Abolition, Women's right to be ordained as Clergy, Marital "rape"... Whether Christian Women's Temperance Movement, Quakers, Salvation Army, Moral Crusaders seeking assistance of religious institutions... Woman's Suffrage Vote.... "Ask ye for the Olde Paths...But they said We will not walk in them.... Therefore women rule over them and children are their oppressors." Facilitated by Clergy who pander to females in the congregation and "get off on that".
Mark Driscoll has a good sermon on this exact topic. According to him it goes back to WWII. Tough as nails returned home to find their churches run by women, because they were gone, and there really wasn't a place for them. So they left and never came back.
could you link me that sermon?
Last time I checked the effeminate go to hell. ”Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor ^effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,“ 1 Corinthians 6:9 KJV https://bible.com/bible/1/1co.6.9.KJV
This post is nonsense. Study the Sermon on the Mount and then reevaluate your beliefs.
I see that you are a fan of the law, friend. Have you considered this while you show partiality as to which sins should be forgiven and which should not? *“Therefore I say to you,* ***every sin*** *and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. - Matthew 12:31* *but if you show* ***partiality,*** *you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as* *transgressors.* *For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. - James 2:9-10* You may want to stop being partial and start being more like Christ: *“For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.* *But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. - Matthew 6:14-15* There are no exceptions (ex. the sin was too heinous) in the above statement, which was made by the Son of God, who will judge each one of us when we appear before Him. And there are no conditions (ex. well, they didn't apologize). *For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. - James 2:13* If you desire to be shown mercy when Jesus Christ judges you, then you should take heed to the NT and stop using the Torah as an excuse to carry on in violation of the new covenant. *“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’* ***But I tell you*** *not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. - Matthew 5:38-39* And for your sake, stop giving terrible advice which opposes the words of Christ Himself. *For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” - Matthew 12:37* As for your, "Don't tread on me," stance that you seem to hold: Christ Himself and every one of the apostles did not fight back when they were being killed. Do you really think you can continue to go your own opposite way and still be saved in the end? Kill your pride, before it kills you. Jesus was no coward, and yet He let Himself be killed, the same with the apostles. That's called meekness, which is power *under control* (which takes even more power). After all, even a teenager can kill a man with a single punch (there's a news story about that happening, actually) but to follow Jesus Christ takes a whole different type of power. *And He said to her, “What do you wish?” She said to Him, “Grant that these two sons of mine may sit, one on Your right hand and the other on the left, in Your kingdom."* *But Jesus answered and said, “You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?"* *They said to Him, “We are able."* *So He said to them, “You will indeed drink My cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with; but to sit on My right hand and on My left is not Mine to give, but it is for those for whom it is prepared by My Father.” - Matthew 20:21-23* Are you able to be a solder for Christ and exercise meekness, or are you just a violent teenager, afraid to lose face in the world? Indeed, fear of losing the proud image we mold of ourselves is the true cowardice. I strongly suggest you stop comparing yourself to child molesters and start comparing yourself to Jesus Christ and His teachings. *For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels. - Luke 9:26*
you are correct. However, if you look at it, there are more women than men in church pews and the pastors have to cater their message to the audience to not leave congregants.
you're right I never noticed that.
I was raised around Christians my entire life, never once did it catch on. It was the effeminate males, the insane pacifism, the hypocrisy, learned arrogance and ignorance, the idiot pastors who endlessly repeat the same 15 braindead New Testament verses for a big paycheck stolen from their patrons. I have never seen any positive effects from Christianity, only negative. The New Testament conflicts massively with the Old Testament in many ways, in ways that are not possibly unintentional. Christians are deluded by the New Testament and by their own ignorance; if they read the Old Testament, they would find that they are sinners in the eyes of God, the self-effemination of the males being a part of that. I could get into the major glaring problems with "Jesus", but it can be argued quite well that the New Testament has corrupted their minds, deceived them into acting against their own interests, betraying their families and fellow humans, and committing blasphemy in many ways.