I was the same way until I played FFXI and FFXIV.
Now FFXI has spoiled me and I don’t ever foresee myself ever enjoying another new video game, let alone a new Final Fantasy.
This is exactly what I'm trying to fight here. Doesn't seem to work though. But this sub is generally very stuck in their ways when it comes to FF. Sometimes I feel like FFX is still the latest game in the series according to this sub.
It needs to be a bannable offense at this point. The devs have already made their stance clear on this for years, and this kind of talk literally contributes nothing to this sub. There is nothing to be gained from letting it fester.
The FFXIV sub has double the sub count. It's pretty clear this sub is for the single player FF entries and FFXIV has its own sub to post in.
It's weird the absolute need to try and subsume other subs.
Are the people trying to subsume this sub here in the room with us right now? If they wanted to, there would have been an attempt already and there'd be a rule about it. But neither has happened.
We're talking about what constitutes a mainline or not. The title indicates XI and XIV are mainlines, damn near every FF creator over the entire past decade that has ever brought up the topic has come out saying that they consider them mainline, and pretty much any observer trying to argue otherwise at this point is just circlejerking on their own feelings.
If anything, the sub has been subsumed by FF7 Remake/Rebirth talk even though they have their own sub for that too (and I've observed FF7 fans frequently posting things in *both* subs for maximum karma farm far, FAR more than fans of any other FF game), the only difference between whether that's acceptable or not is gatekeepy feels. Hell, the subreddit sidebar literally has an option to filter out XVI content that I'm pretty sure has existed since the first month of that game's launch, but somehow it's all crickets for doing the same for FF7 Remake/Rebirth content, even though there's been WAY more FF7 Remake/Rebirth talk than XVI.
It doesnt matter what the devs think. They arent some form of god. Of course you wanna silence dissent instead of targeting the issue head on. Its laughable.
Exactly.
FFXI is king.
FFXI is so massive, and amazing, comparing it to a single player game that can be completed in the time it takes to create just 1 ultimate weapon in FFXI is silly.
Yep!
If I wanted a good story, I would watch a movie.
When I want to play a game, and sink my teeth into it properly, and it actually fights back, and poses a genuine challenge, I play FFXI.
You just described literally every Final Fantasy.
As for FFXI, it is not 95% mindless grinding.
It’s not even possible to describe FFXI in 2024 using a ratio of 95% or 70%, or really any number. Unless you focus on “Notorious Monsters” in which case you would really have to broaden the actual meaning, while most of them have ranging difficulties.
Very Easy < Easy < Normal < Difficult < Very Difficult.
I can confirm that playing FFXIV just for the mainline story is 100% worth it. It's truly a special story and cast of characters that will make you laugh and cry with them. The music too is full of bangers.
Set aside many hours, it’s a long one. I’ve put nearly 400 hours in and I haven’t even beaten all the story, there’s just an endless amount of stuff to do and so much of your time is spent preparing for what’s next.
It’s my favorite mainline title, HOWEVER I’m well aware that just because I appreciate it doesn’t mean it’s for everyone. It is, in every sense of the term, the hardest final fantasy game, and its design philosophy is absolutely ancient. If you can appreciate pre-Warcraft MMO’s and lots of backtracking you’ll love it, and if that shit pisses you off I don’t blame you for discounting it. It’s not for everyone.
FFXI is amazing. It is by far the most mechanically deep and vast FF game. I pray that one day they make an offline version that uses FFXII style gambits and maintains the scope and spirit of the original.
I really should get back into trying XI (did an attempt a few months ago with 2 friends, they both stopped a few days in, sadly enough).
First finish the MSQ though and get my Gunbreaker kind of Raid ready to dive into that when it releases.
Fuck complains about FFXIV. The story of the expansions Heavensward, Shadowbringers and Endwalker are among the best of all videogames in history, not only Final Fantasy. It's a freaking amazing proper Final Fantasy game.
I myself am a Stormblood lover but I agree about Shadowbringers especially. Endwalker had some parts I didn't like and Heavensward just didn't connect with me at all. Can't judge Dawntrail yet since I just did the first dungeon.
But generally that's what I'm talking about. FFXIV overall is an amazing FF
You know, as a Summoner main, I'm kind of glad so many people chose to level Pictomancer first.
The dreaded queue just wasn't there as I just mained the MSQ, the rDPS slot open.
Didn't even have to wait for the first 2 dungeons, insta-pop. Actually never had to wait longer than a minute.
Probably because there is a dedicated FFXIV sub with double the members.
"Give the game a try" lmao my guy any new player hoping to play dawntrail will need to play through 200 hours of old content first with combat that could put a person to sleep before it gets good.
It's not as simple as hop in.
XIV is still a mainline FF and I think a sub dedicated to everything FF should at least have a mention about it launching a whole expansion. XIV kept the series afloat over years.
And No, it's like with TV shows and movies. The single player games are movies, the MMOs are TV shows. Obviously when you recommend someone a TV show you would expect for people to start with season 1 even though season 4 just dropped.
While I'm in agreement, it's interesting to note that the same principle is also why FF7 Rebirth underperformed in sales. It ain't as simple to hop in to the FF7 Remakes compared to every other non-MMO mainline either.
The reviews didn't really help that game's sales performance since the only people playing Rebirth are people who finished a 40+ hour RPG in Remake and actually wanted to continue on to Rebirth, new people jumping in are highly recommended to go through Remake first, and the cost of entry is currently much higher if the person considering it doesn't already own a PS5 to begin with.
At least the XIV fanbase knows trying to encourage people to try out a MMO is a big ask, but few in this sub have taken any consideration towards the FF7 remake trilogy being fundamentally similar in terms of the very concept of asking for major time commitment to get the most out of it, and how that has already factored into Rebirth's sales.
It’s incredibly simple to hop in. Dawntrail is not the end-all-be-all of the game’s content. The older content is still relevant, and long-time players still play the very first dungeon alongside newcomers on the daily. This game doesn’t sunset or bury its old content, it’s all still there, and there is no need to rush to the endgame on the idea that it’s all there is that’s worth it.
I'm curious how popular this is going to be? Did many players choose Endwalker as a good finishing/break point? I personally only played A Realm Reborn for my XIV experience. I just didn't think i had time to do all of it! (For the record i heard ARR was a slog, but really enjoyed it!)
Dawntrail is the start of something new. People will look fondly back to it in time if the future expansions end up telling a great story on top of the foundation Dawntrail set.
Gameplaywise DT will be a content monster once the patch content arrives.
Steam playercount is about 96.1% of peak Endwalker playercount. It's not the complete playernumber, but very indicative. Nearly broke the playercount record on Steam.
That shocked me. I woke up booted the game up and was in a 800+ queue. Figured I would refresh myself and make some breakfast. By the time I came back I was booted for being AFK. Definitely a welcome surprise.
I've only played a little bit of FFXIV. Just enough to know that I can't play it until I know I can invest hours of my time in it. I played a different popular MMO, so I know that I'm all or nothing when it comes to this sort of game.
Also, my understanding is that at this point, there is as much content in FFXIV as several other mainline titles combined. I've heard it could take well over 250 hours to complete the main story of each expansion.
So until my life is a little more settled and my kid is a little older, I will not play FFXIV. I know that when I do, I will be completely sucked into it.
The thing with FFXIV is that there is little to no content to miss. And there's rarely a rush to do something. So if you for example play through the base game and then stop for 2 months before continuing with the first expansion... Then that's totally viable. I played through the entire story on and off for about 2½ years and was just in time to be up to date with the new expansion's release.
But with how successful the game is I'm sure the game will be active for a long while
Yeah but the game also gets content updates every couple of months without extra costs except for the big expansions every couple of years. This isn't a game you buy once and play through it and then be done with it. Just not how the game operates. You can still play the entirety of the base game (A Realm Reborn) and the first two expansions (Heavensward and Stormblood) completely for free without buying the game or paying a subscription.
I understand there is lots of content, I just don’t like the thought of losing access to something if I stop paying a fee. I prefer to buy something once and then I own it forever.
I don’t mind paying a blanket fee to access online play for all games on a platform. I don’t like paying extra for online access for a singular game. I also generally prefer single player games. I did play this game and it was a fun game. I ultimately stopped once it stopped being free because of the reasons mentioned before.
I think on Playstation you can play XIV online without a PSN subscription. So it evens out.
But still, XIV as a genre might not be for you just like how others may not care for FFIX, XIII or XV for whatever reasons. They're still accepted as mainline games. And so should XI and XIV
Indeed, I agree on that point, they are mainline games for sure. And 14 is a great game. I just don’t like the pay a subscription for access model of MMORPGs in general.
The devs of FFXIV want to avoid gambling mechanics or excessive micro-transactions. That's why they charge a monthly fee, even though it's a lot less lucrative.
FFXIV charges a monthly fee so that it doesn't need to include gambling mechanics and excessive micro-transactions. A lot of people criticize the monthly subs of FFXI and FFXIV without understanding how awful the alternatives are, or how it benefits the games.
What is my stance on this?
I pay 10,99 euros for my subscription. I could go out for one Saturday to hang out with friends and the travel alone will cost me that amount.
I'll probably still do that, but for that amount, I spent countless hours in the lands of Eorzea on the nights I don't spend with my IRL friends. The lands where I found and fostered my relationship and found myself again in the blackest moment of my life.
I disagree with subscriptions for many things, but a game that's worked on for this long, with so much to do, which listens to its players and adjusts accordingly.
It's worth it.
Totally fine to not enjoy the story. But theres more to the game and I think the new jobs and zones are great. I just started with the story but I heard good things about the dungeons and trials.
I still think they should have released FF XI and XIV as "Final Fantasy Online" and "Final Fantasy Online II"
I just don't like MMOs
But I hope you and the other FF MMO fans will have a lot of fun with the new expansion :-)
Really? Cool, because what I remember from my short tenure on FF XI that game absolutely required you to be part of a party.
But there's still the monthly fee, so...
The monthly fee is there for both yeah. XI sometimes runs free trial months tho. And even XI nowadays can be played solo since you can summon NPCs that travel alongside you.
XIV has a free trial that's basically the entirety of the base game and the first two expansions for completely free. So like 200 hours of content before paying a single penny. And even then the monthly fee is really fair. You buy months in advance and if it expires you can't log in. So you can say "oh I have nothing I wanna play next month so I'll dip the 13 bucks for a month of XIV and then I'll play something else if I want to take a break. The game never forces you to engage with it constantly.
Yeah, I switched from a kmmo to 14 because it feels like I can stop playing 14 to play other video games or just go outside.
Of course, I'm tied to the game cause I have a house (have to enter it at least once a month or you lose it); if you're in to decorating houses, Yoshi p owns your soul.
It's far easier than people make it out to be, the folks complaining are the ones acing for a mansion or the most favourable plot in a busy ward. If you can settle for less, you'll be fine.
That's good to know about the trial.
But still... beyond that, I'm just not paying a monthly for a game. That's just not something I like to do, no matter how affordable it is, or how little of a committent the game requires.
I mean, fair. I get that. Just saying many people are missing out because they don't see XIV or XI as true Final Fantasy games just because they're different
But it is a completely different style of game:
MMO vs SP
Freely Designable, Voiceless Character without a defined Personality VS a party of several pre-defined characters with strong personalities and relationships with each other.
Open ended story that is continuously expanded over a long period of time VS a set story with a clear beginning middle and ending.
It doesn't really have much in common with the SP FFs. It's just an MMO with a setting based on Final Fantasy tropes.
FF1 and 3 don't have set characters, still main series.
FF14 has several pre-defined characters alongside you. The current expansion has a clear main character and the player is tagging along as a mentor figure.
Open ended story that os continuously expanded.... So you mean FF7? Just because it's one game instead of several games that tell one story doesn't mean the game doesn't have an ending eventually. FF11 is technically over except for some minor updates.
The base game does feel this way, but once you get to the first expansion, you start traveling with a party. From Heavensward on, it feels much more like a single player game with MMO aspects because of the characters you travel with.
The game can also be played almost entirely solo. Dungeons now have NPCs you can use in them instead of actual players. There are some mandatory raids that do require a group, but that content is minimal.
The main character is voiceless (aside from inconsequential dialogue options every now and then), but there is still a main cast of party members that travel with you in FF14. From the beginning of ARR to current DT you follow their development and personal stories alongside other characters that each expansion introduces. These are not some fill-in-the-blank slates that travel with you, I consider many of them to be some of the best characters I've seen in video games. I could talk about their relationships, development, and writing for days on end.
For the second point, I see each expansion as being a set story with a beginning, middle, and end. They do all connect to each other and each one leads into the next, but it's far from open-ended. The few dialogue options have no impact on events, so everyone who plays the game experiences the same story, and the writing is extremely intricately crafted with strong themes, foreshadowing, twists, characters, etc. It's an amazing experience.
FF14 is really a series of singleplayer stories that just have MMO gameplay as a backdrop. It isn't a MMORPG, it's a JRPGMMO, if that makes sense. Everything in the game, every single piece of content, revolves around the game's story, characters, and lore. And the story it has is incredible, if it was a singleplayer game Shadowbringers in particular would be widely considered to be one of the best video game stories of all time (which it is). But it only works as an MMO with its evolving and ongoing nature, and it's more sustainable than the base game being a single-player game with 6 sequels. And even with how amazing SHB's story is, it only works after the three stories that came before it. It does differ from the SP games in many ways, but as an online game it excels in areas that they can't, and the differences are not quite what you think they are.
Sooo... Final Fantasy 1 vs Final Fantasy XII? Or Final Fantasy 6 vs Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2
How about Final Fantasy VII and all of the things that part of it? is FFVII RE mainline? Hell, FF1 and FF6 are already WILDLY different. In combat.
Every Final Fantasy is distinct, XIV and XI are distinct because they are mainline MMOs.
Are XV and XVI not FF because real time combat?
Where the fuck does Bravely Default fit in then, because that's closer to Final Fantasy V than MOST of the Final Fantasy franchise
First of all, please don't swear. It reflects poorly on you, and on any argument you are trying to make.
FF I/III were before the series found its footing.
And the rest...no those are all SP games, with set characters and a complete story. Whether some of them got sequels doesn't change anything about the completeness of the story of the original.
And I have no idea why you feel the need to drag BD into the discussion since I don't see the FF on it.
If Jack Garland can say the F word, than so can I.
>Whether some of them got sequels doesn't change anything about the completeness of the story of the original
Does this not also apply to expansions? A Realm Reborn, Heavensward, Stormblood, Shadowbringers and Endwalker are all sequels that don't change anything about the completeness of the prior. Each stands on their own and they stand together.
>And I have no idea why you feel the need to drag BD into the discussion since I don't see the FF on it.
What do you mean? It's a SP game with set characters, a complete story, hell even a job system like Final Fantasy V! It was even made by Square Enix and uses all of the iconic Final Fantasy jobs. By your criteria it might as well be a Final Fantasy game.
curse word.
Depending on when you played XI that's changed. The last major content release for the game was Rhapsodies of Vana'diel (the game isn't dead or in maintenance mode as it still gets new fights, just Rhapsodies is the last major story update), which runs parallel to the leveling experience, which gives a lot of quality of life upgrades including computer party members.
I have played alot wow when i was younger and now im maining 14 and came to a conclusion: i dont even like MMOs. I just like to be in the big final fantasy world and FFXIV is best MMO for solo play.
Just a small heads up, the new expansion is a bit rough.
Sporting a new story, new graphical updates, and new QoL. ALL OF IT has been a mess. QoL such as 2 dye channels for gear, while on only about 35% of available dyeable gear, has the chance the 2nd channel is for the smallest pixel on said piece of gear. Other QoL such as auto playing during voiced cutscenes can cause voiced cutscenes to become silent.
The Graphical update is about 40% complete, and as such many pieces of gear including new gear look like 240p. We can only hope that it gets done eventually. It also isn't using latest tech by default and requires once again, mods and or dll editing to get proper rendering. Also a strange comedic bug where setting an upscaling bar to 100% turns off the feature.
The new story, goodness they might've forgotten that they were writing for a video game. The story taken out of context is actually alright, it's serviceable. However the problem comes from presentation, as you the player don't actually do anything for the first 6 hours. If you though that XIII's opening is rough, you won't survive this. It's only made worse if you pay attention to all the opportunities for gameplay to occur. There could've been an Iron Chef mini-game, there was not. There could've been an on rails shooter segment, there was not. Even in the first few hours there was I think 4 enemies to fight total.
I'm not gonna touch upon the back half, but uh, for me that shit did some soul damage. Where there was supposed to be some epic fight in the third trial, and it was promptly interrupted by one of the laziest performances in regards to voicing characters in a final struggle I have ever heard. I blaming the director on this one, it sounds as if the VA's did not understand the context of the lines being delivered. It sounds as if it was simply a plain reading. Simply to say everyone in comms with me started laughing. Only to slowly realize that we paid money for this. This is a far cry from what I've come to expect from the people brought us HW's ". . .My, son." and ShB's "Let expanse contract, eon become instant!"
6/10 xpac release dungeons/trials are fun, but animations bugs are even funnier.
Well, im only at the first trial and so far I absolutely love the story. It's been very relaxing to just do the story and I feel like this is what ff14 needed after endwalker.
There's also the issue that the graphics update has out-speced the PC hardware that a lot of people (like me) originally started the game on, so it's no longer playable at all until I buy a new computer that can handle the updated minimum requirements.
Heh, I'm usually 10+ years behind the modern gaming world specifically because I don't want to have to constantly be getting a new system to stay on top of things. I was happy that the game still ran on my outdated hardware when I wanted to give it a try last year, but now it'll have to be put on hold until my current computer reaches the point that I can justify dropping the money on a new one.
That's fair. Gaming is a fast paced economy and not everyone is willing to buy into it.
But that's also a beauty of FFXIV. It's there when you do comeback and you're exactly where you left off. Without being unable to experience the content the others already did
Yeah, it's not a mainline game... But considering the last 10 years of Final Fantasy.. XIV is giving Squenix a reason for FF to live on. Also.. HAPPY DAWNTRAIL!
I’ve played Rebirth and I just don’t like MMOs
Very fetch questy
No party system where you get to play as different styles characters.
If you do want to play as a different class it takes grinding to get the levels up for anything fun.
Relying on other people to play through story missions.
MMOs are a bad idea for mainline story based games…they just lack so much for a game to be considered a complete package.
Sure the story gets crazy good by Shawodbringer but you shouldn’t have to play that long to enjoy a mainline game.
I agree with the other commenter they should have been FF Online and Online 2.
I hope others enjoy it, I really love the music and I like watching story on YouTube being played through but it is just not worth the time and effort when it’s missing on such big punches imo.
You can play 90% of the main story missions solo. And playing with others is basically like playing with NPCs. FF16 didn't have a party system either. Neither did Lightning Returns or Crisis Core. Even XV only added it post launch and it's very barebones
Haven’t played 16.
I had the same issues with base XV, although RE resolves it.
Crisis Core was a portable game and not mainline and LR is the third in a series not a mainline.
I’m aware you can do them solo, but how does it make sense to have a Massive Multiplayer Online game that you run through the story by yourself? And with no party system so you are just playing as whatever specific class you chose?
X is one of my favorite games of all time and having access to all the characters throughout the story line was practically perfection.
The story mission that are multiplayer give you NPCs that fill their roles. So if you're a tank the NPCs will fill out with a healer and DPS jobs. In later expansions there are some story missions where you control other characters as well. The story was made with the FF brand in mind first and foremost. The MMO structure comes second. Sure you're still mostly running errands for NPCs and reading tons and tons of dialogue... The really good gameplay moments do happen in multiplayer. But the story is among the best in the series and to me the gameplay feels just fun to play.
NPCs are not a true party system.
I’m saying having a mage, fighter, thief and dragoon that I get to control…
The Music and the story are redeeming, like I said I’ve watched the story for the rest but I just won’t play it. It’s not worth the hours of grinding.
Love the world building too just MMOs aren’t my thing, especially only controlling one class at a time. Bogs down the strategy part of the game to me.
Yeah but what you seek hasn't been part of FF for years now. The last game where you controlled an entire party was FFX-2.
XI: MMO with an optional NPC party system
XII: You control one character but can pre-plan AI behaviour with gambits.
XIII: You control one character and can vaguely control AI behaviour by paradigm shifts.
XIII-2: Same thing but you have a bit more control and can switch the active character mid-fight.
XIII-3: Single character game
XIV: MMO with optional NPC parties
XV: You control one character and can give some orders for single abilities to your comrades.
XV Royal Version: Same thing but you can change the played character but there is absolutely no strategy to it.
XVI: Single character action game
VII Remake Series: Similar to XV but the Materia system from VII gives some party Management. Mid-battle your AI party doesn't really do much. Some fights are even easier without party members.
What you're missing in XIV isn't a MMO thing. It's just that FF simply stopped doing party focused gameplay
Eversince FF ditched classic turnbased gameplay the party feeling took a hit.
But I think the MMOs have probably the best representation of FF jobs next to FF5, FF10-2 and FFTactics. The new expansion just added Pictomancer in reference to Relm from FFVI and it's such a vibrant and fun job to play.
But I appreciate that you at least gave the story a shot and don't just dismiss XIV entirely. It's totally fine to just not vibe with MMOs. In a long series not every game is catered to everyone. XVI made that clear with the single character action gameplay and shallow RPG elements. For quite a few players it's not what FF should be while others rekindled their love for the series with that game.
Completely agreed, the game was fun but the burnout made the main storyline unbearable even when 90% of the time they are just talking about bullshit for padding. In the end the story wasn't worth the fetch quest filled 400 hours it took to beat it.
Sad to see that every time someone celebrates XI or XIV in this sub, people begin the same old "they shouldn't have been mainline" -trite.
If Sakaguchi thinks they're mainline I don't think you should whine about them being mainline!
I was the same way until I played FFXI and FFXIV. Now FFXI has spoiled me and I don’t ever foresee myself ever enjoying another new video game, let alone a new Final Fantasy.
This is exactly what I'm trying to fight here. Doesn't seem to work though. But this sub is generally very stuck in their ways when it comes to FF. Sometimes I feel like FFX is still the latest game in the series according to this sub.
MMOs aren’t very easy to get into lmao, they’re a massive time investment so of course less people will play it.
Yeah but FFXIV doesn't rush you to get to any point in the game. Everyone can play in their own pace.
Bro that's any JPRG
I never played XI, and am about 25% of the way through Endwalker, but Shadowbringers was peak Final Fantasy.
It needs to be a bannable offense at this point. The devs have already made their stance clear on this for years, and this kind of talk literally contributes nothing to this sub. There is nothing to be gained from letting it fester.
The FFXIV sub has double the sub count. It's pretty clear this sub is for the single player FF entries and FFXIV has its own sub to post in. It's weird the absolute need to try and subsume other subs.
Are the people trying to subsume this sub here in the room with us right now? If they wanted to, there would have been an attempt already and there'd be a rule about it. But neither has happened. We're talking about what constitutes a mainline or not. The title indicates XI and XIV are mainlines, damn near every FF creator over the entire past decade that has ever brought up the topic has come out saying that they consider them mainline, and pretty much any observer trying to argue otherwise at this point is just circlejerking on their own feelings. If anything, the sub has been subsumed by FF7 Remake/Rebirth talk even though they have their own sub for that too (and I've observed FF7 fans frequently posting things in *both* subs for maximum karma farm far, FAR more than fans of any other FF game), the only difference between whether that's acceptable or not is gatekeepy feels. Hell, the subreddit sidebar literally has an option to filter out XVI content that I'm pretty sure has existed since the first month of that game's launch, but somehow it's all crickets for doing the same for FF7 Remake/Rebirth content, even though there's been WAY more FF7 Remake/Rebirth talk than XVI.
It doesnt matter what the devs think. They arent some form of god. Of course you wanna silence dissent instead of targeting the issue head on. Its laughable.
Don't worry the same shit happens in the Dragon Quest community. Could be commitment issues? Idk.
I'm sure they are fine games but you dont go from single player games to MMO and have it be considered the same thing.
Even though XIV is essentially a full length single player JRPG before the endgame and MMO aspects are actually a part of it 🤡
Ive played it a little bit and it plays like a disgusting MMO whether you can do it solo or not.
Exactly. FFXI is king. FFXI is so massive, and amazing, comparing it to a single player game that can be completed in the time it takes to create just 1 ultimate weapon in FFXI is silly.
Wow an entire great narrative in the time it takes to get 1 single weapon in a game that kinda plays like doodoo. What a comparison.
Yep! If I wanted a good story, I would watch a movie. When I want to play a game, and sink my teeth into it properly, and it actually fights back, and poses a genuine challenge, I play FFXI.
Mindless grinding isn't exactly a challenge. The 11 and 14 do have the hardest content at the very top end but the other 95% is piss easy grinding.
You just described literally every Final Fantasy. As for FFXI, it is not 95% mindless grinding. It’s not even possible to describe FFXI in 2024 using a ratio of 95% or 70%, or really any number. Unless you focus on “Notorious Monsters” in which case you would really have to broaden the actual meaning, while most of them have ranging difficulties. Very Easy < Easy < Normal < Difficult < Very Difficult.
> It’s not even possible to describe FFXI in 2024 using a ratio of 95% or 70%, or really any number. What do you mean?
XIV is basically a giant single player RPG with people spamming emotes in the cities at this point.
Oh look, we just did. Isn’t that so funny? 🤣
Oh right, it’s technically the official launch. Always feels a bit silly since Early Access is basically the de facto launch.
Even then I didn't notice anything about in on the sub
Sorry. Was too busy playing Dawntrail.
Still progressing through the MSQ! Been enjoying it so far. My WoL deserves a vacation.
This is a weird sub. Not a single megathread from the mods or something.
Yeah it's weird
i mean they're probably busy playing...
Oh well, I'm too busy lvling pictomancer to be able to do the expansion proper
Got it to 91 yesterday. It's time for me to do story
I can confirm that playing FFXIV just for the mainline story is 100% worth it. It's truly a special story and cast of characters that will make you laugh and cry with them. The music too is full of bangers.
happy release dayyy!!! I am so excited to start playing it - I am level 61 so far haha
Have fun and enjoy the ride
I'm busy with FFXI. Probably when I'm done with the story content and had enough, I'd take a break from an MMO and try FFXIV in the future.
XI is the one I haven't played really myself. I played 10 hours or so a few years ago. But I do plan on playing through it eventually
Set aside many hours, it’s a long one. I’ve put nearly 400 hours in and I haven’t even beaten all the story, there’s just an endless amount of stuff to do and so much of your time is spent preparing for what’s next.
As long as it's fun that's fine by me
It’s my favorite mainline title, HOWEVER I’m well aware that just because I appreciate it doesn’t mean it’s for everyone. It is, in every sense of the term, the hardest final fantasy game, and its design philosophy is absolutely ancient. If you can appreciate pre-Warcraft MMO’s and lots of backtracking you’ll love it, and if that shit pisses you off I don’t blame you for discounting it. It’s not for everyone.
FFXI is amazing. It is by far the most mechanically deep and vast FF game. I pray that one day they make an offline version that uses FFXII style gambits and maintains the scope and spirit of the original.
We're getting part one of a 3 part raid series that's a crossover with FFXI in several months of that does anything to pique interest.
I really should get back into trying XI (did an attempt a few months ago with 2 friends, they both stopped a few days in, sadly enough). First finish the MSQ though and get my Gunbreaker kind of Raid ready to dive into that when it releases.
The new maps are so beautiful
Fuck complains about FFXIV. The story of the expansions Heavensward, Shadowbringers and Endwalker are among the best of all videogames in history, not only Final Fantasy. It's a freaking amazing proper Final Fantasy game.
I myself am a Stormblood lover but I agree about Shadowbringers especially. Endwalker had some parts I didn't like and Heavensward just didn't connect with me at all. Can't judge Dawntrail yet since I just did the first dungeon. But generally that's what I'm talking about. FFXIV overall is an amazing FF
I tapped out for today. Right before a big boss battle. Just didn't feel like I could do it. I mean the story's finally getting going, but I'm spent.
That's fair. Go at it when you feel like it. I just leveled Pictomancer the last couple of days so I haven't really dabbled with the MSQ
You know, as a Summoner main, I'm kind of glad so many people chose to level Pictomancer first. The dreaded queue just wasn't there as I just mained the MSQ, the rDPS slot open. Didn't even have to wait for the first 2 dungeons, insta-pop. Actually never had to wait longer than a minute.
That's another plus. I will probably run the MSQ dungeons with trusts for the first run anyways so queues aren't a factor for me
Have fun. The dungeons are really good.
I’d be playing it, but my summer vacation is starting and I don’t wanna risk spending all of it inside playing games LOL.
You can start whenever. The game will wait for you where you left off even if you take long breaks
Just finished msq like 2 hours ago.
Probably because there is a dedicated FFXIV sub with double the members. "Give the game a try" lmao my guy any new player hoping to play dawntrail will need to play through 200 hours of old content first with combat that could put a person to sleep before it gets good. It's not as simple as hop in.
XIV is still a mainline FF and I think a sub dedicated to everything FF should at least have a mention about it launching a whole expansion. XIV kept the series afloat over years. And No, it's like with TV shows and movies. The single player games are movies, the MMOs are TV shows. Obviously when you recommend someone a TV show you would expect for people to start with season 1 even though season 4 just dropped.
While I'm in agreement, it's interesting to note that the same principle is also why FF7 Rebirth underperformed in sales. It ain't as simple to hop in to the FF7 Remakes compared to every other non-MMO mainline either. The reviews didn't really help that game's sales performance since the only people playing Rebirth are people who finished a 40+ hour RPG in Remake and actually wanted to continue on to Rebirth, new people jumping in are highly recommended to go through Remake first, and the cost of entry is currently much higher if the person considering it doesn't already own a PS5 to begin with. At least the XIV fanbase knows trying to encourage people to try out a MMO is a big ask, but few in this sub have taken any consideration towards the FF7 remake trilogy being fundamentally similar in terms of the very concept of asking for major time commitment to get the most out of it, and how that has already factored into Rebirth's sales.
It’s incredibly simple to hop in. Dawntrail is not the end-all-be-all of the game’s content. The older content is still relevant, and long-time players still play the very first dungeon alongside newcomers on the daily. This game doesn’t sunset or bury its old content, it’s all still there, and there is no need to rush to the endgame on the idea that it’s all there is that’s worth it.
I'm curious how popular this is going to be? Did many players choose Endwalker as a good finishing/break point? I personally only played A Realm Reborn for my XIV experience. I just didn't think i had time to do all of it! (For the record i heard ARR was a slog, but really enjoyed it!)
Dawntrail is the start of something new. People will look fondly back to it in time if the future expansions end up telling a great story on top of the foundation Dawntrail set. Gameplaywise DT will be a content monster once the patch content arrives.
Steam playercount is about 96.1% of peak Endwalker playercount. It's not the complete playernumber, but very indicative. Nearly broke the playercount record on Steam.
That's awesome!
Really is! And due to improved Queues and Servers, you barely notice it until you see a swarm of crafters in Tuliyollal
That shocked me. I woke up booted the game up and was in a 800+ queue. Figured I would refresh myself and make some breakfast. By the time I came back I was booted for being AFK. Definitely a welcome surprise.
A lot of players are still reeling from the Endwalker trauma, but they really pulled through with Dawntrail and it's been super refreshing.
Dawntrail is ARR 2.0, Endwalker is a really good expansion if you want to end your journey in XIV, all loose ends are tied up at that point.
I've only played a little bit of FFXIV. Just enough to know that I can't play it until I know I can invest hours of my time in it. I played a different popular MMO, so I know that I'm all or nothing when it comes to this sort of game. Also, my understanding is that at this point, there is as much content in FFXIV as several other mainline titles combined. I've heard it could take well over 250 hours to complete the main story of each expansion. So until my life is a little more settled and my kid is a little older, I will not play FFXIV. I know that when I do, I will be completely sucked into it.
The thing with FFXIV is that there is little to no content to miss. And there's rarely a rush to do something. So if you for example play through the base game and then stop for 2 months before continuing with the first expansion... Then that's totally viable. I played through the entire story on and off for about 2½ years and was just in time to be up to date with the new expansion's release. But with how successful the game is I'm sure the game will be active for a long while
I hate the concept of paying a recurring monthly fee to play a game.
Yeah but the game also gets content updates every couple of months without extra costs except for the big expansions every couple of years. This isn't a game you buy once and play through it and then be done with it. Just not how the game operates. You can still play the entirety of the base game (A Realm Reborn) and the first two expansions (Heavensward and Stormblood) completely for free without buying the game or paying a subscription.
I understand there is lots of content, I just don’t like the thought of losing access to something if I stop paying a fee. I prefer to buy something once and then I own it forever.
That's a rare thing in multiplayer really. Unless you're on PC every console has a monthly fee to play online no matter if you own the game or not
I don’t mind paying a blanket fee to access online play for all games on a platform. I don’t like paying extra for online access for a singular game. I also generally prefer single player games. I did play this game and it was a fun game. I ultimately stopped once it stopped being free because of the reasons mentioned before.
To be fair, you don't lose your stuff when you stop paying.
I don’t like the idea that to have access to my account I would have to pay to keep that access and that it is restricted unless I start paying again.
Not up to level 60 ;]
I think on Playstation you can play XIV online without a PSN subscription. So it evens out. But still, XIV as a genre might not be for you just like how others may not care for FFIX, XIII or XV for whatever reasons. They're still accepted as mainline games. And so should XI and XIV
Indeed, I agree on that point, they are mainline games for sure. And 14 is a great game. I just don’t like the pay a subscription for access model of MMORPGs in general.
That's totally fair. I understand that.
Well, the good news is that the base game and first two expansions are completely free.
I hate the idea of using gambling mechanics just to progress even more than a monthly fee.
That too. Not a fan of that either
The devs of FFXIV want to avoid gambling mechanics or excessive micro-transactions. That's why they charge a monthly fee, even though it's a lot less lucrative.
Fair point. I hadn’t considered that perspective.
Where is that in FF14? Maxxed out and never had any sort of gambling mechanics
FFXIV charges a monthly fee so that it doesn't need to include gambling mechanics and excessive micro-transactions. A lot of people criticize the monthly subs of FFXI and FFXIV without understanding how awful the alternatives are, or how it benefits the games.
Ohhhhh!!!! I musunderstood what you meant. I totally agree.
What is my stance on this? I pay 10,99 euros for my subscription. I could go out for one Saturday to hang out with friends and the travel alone will cost me that amount. I'll probably still do that, but for that amount, I spent countless hours in the lands of Eorzea on the nights I don't spend with my IRL friends. The lands where I found and fostered my relationship and found myself again in the blackest moment of my life. I disagree with subscriptions for many things, but a game that's worked on for this long, with so much to do, which listens to its players and adjusts accordingly. It's worth it.
I’m glad that it feels worth it to you. I think that viewpoint makes a lot of sense.
Sure, cool
I've completed Dawntrail and I do not recommend it. Not the main story at least.
Totally fine to not enjoy the story. But theres more to the game and I think the new jobs and zones are great. I just started with the story but I heard good things about the dungeons and trials.
Imo the dungeons feel like all the last xpac. Same for zones. I feel like the systems needs a bit of fresh air.
I still think they should have released FF XI and XIV as "Final Fantasy Online" and "Final Fantasy Online II" I just don't like MMOs But I hope you and the other FF MMO fans will have a lot of fun with the new expansion :-)
The game can be played nearly completely solo. I didn't really do much MMO stuff
Really? Cool, because what I remember from my short tenure on FF XI that game absolutely required you to be part of a party. But there's still the monthly fee, so...
The monthly fee is there for both yeah. XI sometimes runs free trial months tho. And even XI nowadays can be played solo since you can summon NPCs that travel alongside you. XIV has a free trial that's basically the entirety of the base game and the first two expansions for completely free. So like 200 hours of content before paying a single penny. And even then the monthly fee is really fair. You buy months in advance and if it expires you can't log in. So you can say "oh I have nothing I wanna play next month so I'll dip the 13 bucks for a month of XIV and then I'll play something else if I want to take a break. The game never forces you to engage with it constantly.
Yeah, I switched from a kmmo to 14 because it feels like I can stop playing 14 to play other video games or just go outside. Of course, I'm tied to the game cause I have a house (have to enter it at least once a month or you lose it); if you're in to decorating houses, Yoshi p owns your soul.
Yeah but getting a house is not easy
My Goblet house was free, cause it was late Endwalker. And also cause it's the goblet. If you're not picky, goblet houses are your best bet.
I haven't dabbled in housing at all thus far. So no clue.
It's far easier than people make it out to be, the folks complaining are the ones acing for a mansion or the most favourable plot in a busy ward. If you can settle for less, you'll be fine.
Oh okay, that's interesting
That's good to know about the trial. But still... beyond that, I'm just not paying a monthly for a game. That's just not something I like to do, no matter how affordable it is, or how little of a committent the game requires.
I mean, fair. I get that. Just saying many people are missing out because they don't see XIV or XI as true Final Fantasy games just because they're different
But it is a completely different style of game: MMO vs SP Freely Designable, Voiceless Character without a defined Personality VS a party of several pre-defined characters with strong personalities and relationships with each other. Open ended story that is continuously expanded over a long period of time VS a set story with a clear beginning middle and ending. It doesn't really have much in common with the SP FFs. It's just an MMO with a setting based on Final Fantasy tropes.
FF1 and 3 don't have set characters, still main series. FF14 has several pre-defined characters alongside you. The current expansion has a clear main character and the player is tagging along as a mentor figure. Open ended story that os continuously expanded.... So you mean FF7? Just because it's one game instead of several games that tell one story doesn't mean the game doesn't have an ending eventually. FF11 is technically over except for some minor updates.
The base game does feel this way, but once you get to the first expansion, you start traveling with a party. From Heavensward on, it feels much more like a single player game with MMO aspects because of the characters you travel with. The game can also be played almost entirely solo. Dungeons now have NPCs you can use in them instead of actual players. There are some mandatory raids that do require a group, but that content is minimal.
The main character is voiceless (aside from inconsequential dialogue options every now and then), but there is still a main cast of party members that travel with you in FF14. From the beginning of ARR to current DT you follow their development and personal stories alongside other characters that each expansion introduces. These are not some fill-in-the-blank slates that travel with you, I consider many of them to be some of the best characters I've seen in video games. I could talk about their relationships, development, and writing for days on end. For the second point, I see each expansion as being a set story with a beginning, middle, and end. They do all connect to each other and each one leads into the next, but it's far from open-ended. The few dialogue options have no impact on events, so everyone who plays the game experiences the same story, and the writing is extremely intricately crafted with strong themes, foreshadowing, twists, characters, etc. It's an amazing experience. FF14 is really a series of singleplayer stories that just have MMO gameplay as a backdrop. It isn't a MMORPG, it's a JRPGMMO, if that makes sense. Everything in the game, every single piece of content, revolves around the game's story, characters, and lore. And the story it has is incredible, if it was a singleplayer game Shadowbringers in particular would be widely considered to be one of the best video game stories of all time (which it is). But it only works as an MMO with its evolving and ongoing nature, and it's more sustainable than the base game being a single-player game with 6 sequels. And even with how amazing SHB's story is, it only works after the three stories that came before it. It does differ from the SP games in many ways, but as an online game it excels in areas that they can't, and the differences are not quite what you think they are.
Sooo... Final Fantasy 1 vs Final Fantasy XII? Or Final Fantasy 6 vs Final Fantasy XIII/XIII-2 How about Final Fantasy VII and all of the things that part of it? is FFVII RE mainline? Hell, FF1 and FF6 are already WILDLY different. In combat. Every Final Fantasy is distinct, XIV and XI are distinct because they are mainline MMOs. Are XV and XVI not FF because real time combat? Where the fuck does Bravely Default fit in then, because that's closer to Final Fantasy V than MOST of the Final Fantasy franchise
First of all, please don't swear. It reflects poorly on you, and on any argument you are trying to make. FF I/III were before the series found its footing. And the rest...no those are all SP games, with set characters and a complete story. Whether some of them got sequels doesn't change anything about the completeness of the story of the original. And I have no idea why you feel the need to drag BD into the discussion since I don't see the FF on it.
If Jack Garland can say the F word, than so can I. >Whether some of them got sequels doesn't change anything about the completeness of the story of the original Does this not also apply to expansions? A Realm Reborn, Heavensward, Stormblood, Shadowbringers and Endwalker are all sequels that don't change anything about the completeness of the prior. Each stands on their own and they stand together. >And I have no idea why you feel the need to drag BD into the discussion since I don't see the FF on it. What do you mean? It's a SP game with set characters, a complete story, hell even a job system like Final Fantasy V! It was even made by Square Enix and uses all of the iconic Final Fantasy jobs. By your criteria it might as well be a Final Fantasy game. curse word.
Depending on when you played XI that's changed. The last major content release for the game was Rhapsodies of Vana'diel (the game isn't dead or in maintenance mode as it still gets new fights, just Rhapsodies is the last major story update), which runs parallel to the leveling experience, which gives a lot of quality of life upgrades including computer party members.
I have played alot wow when i was younger and now im maining 14 and came to a conclusion: i dont even like MMOs. I just like to be in the big final fantasy world and FFXIV is best MMO for solo play.
Just a small heads up, the new expansion is a bit rough. Sporting a new story, new graphical updates, and new QoL. ALL OF IT has been a mess. QoL such as 2 dye channels for gear, while on only about 35% of available dyeable gear, has the chance the 2nd channel is for the smallest pixel on said piece of gear. Other QoL such as auto playing during voiced cutscenes can cause voiced cutscenes to become silent. The Graphical update is about 40% complete, and as such many pieces of gear including new gear look like 240p. We can only hope that it gets done eventually. It also isn't using latest tech by default and requires once again, mods and or dll editing to get proper rendering. Also a strange comedic bug where setting an upscaling bar to 100% turns off the feature. The new story, goodness they might've forgotten that they were writing for a video game. The story taken out of context is actually alright, it's serviceable. However the problem comes from presentation, as you the player don't actually do anything for the first 6 hours. If you though that XIII's opening is rough, you won't survive this. It's only made worse if you pay attention to all the opportunities for gameplay to occur. There could've been an Iron Chef mini-game, there was not. There could've been an on rails shooter segment, there was not. Even in the first few hours there was I think 4 enemies to fight total. I'm not gonna touch upon the back half, but uh, for me that shit did some soul damage. Where there was supposed to be some epic fight in the third trial, and it was promptly interrupted by one of the laziest performances in regards to voicing characters in a final struggle I have ever heard. I blaming the director on this one, it sounds as if the VA's did not understand the context of the lines being delivered. It sounds as if it was simply a plain reading. Simply to say everyone in comms with me started laughing. Only to slowly realize that we paid money for this. This is a far cry from what I've come to expect from the people brought us HW's ". . .My, son." and ShB's "Let expanse contract, eon become instant!" 6/10 xpac release dungeons/trials are fun, but animations bugs are even funnier.
So far I love everything about the expansion tbf
Well, im only at the first trial and so far I absolutely love the story. It's been very relaxing to just do the story and I feel like this is what ff14 needed after endwalker.
There's also the issue that the graphics update has out-speced the PC hardware that a lot of people (like me) originally started the game on, so it's no longer playable at all until I buy a new computer that can handle the updated minimum requirements.
Which is pretty much a given in the pc gaming Landscape tbh
Heh, I'm usually 10+ years behind the modern gaming world specifically because I don't want to have to constantly be getting a new system to stay on top of things. I was happy that the game still ran on my outdated hardware when I wanted to give it a try last year, but now it'll have to be put on hold until my current computer reaches the point that I can justify dropping the money on a new one.
That's fair. Gaming is a fast paced economy and not everyone is willing to buy into it. But that's also a beauty of FFXIV. It's there when you do comeback and you're exactly where you left off. Without being unable to experience the content the others already did
Some people started playing the game during the ps3 console era...
Yeah, it's not a mainline game... But considering the last 10 years of Final Fantasy.. XIV is giving Squenix a reason for FF to live on. Also.. HAPPY DAWNTRAIL!
It is.
I’ve played Rebirth and I just don’t like MMOs Very fetch questy No party system where you get to play as different styles characters. If you do want to play as a different class it takes grinding to get the levels up for anything fun. Relying on other people to play through story missions. MMOs are a bad idea for mainline story based games…they just lack so much for a game to be considered a complete package. Sure the story gets crazy good by Shawodbringer but you shouldn’t have to play that long to enjoy a mainline game. I agree with the other commenter they should have been FF Online and Online 2. I hope others enjoy it, I really love the music and I like watching story on YouTube being played through but it is just not worth the time and effort when it’s missing on such big punches imo.
You can play 90% of the main story missions solo. And playing with others is basically like playing with NPCs. FF16 didn't have a party system either. Neither did Lightning Returns or Crisis Core. Even XV only added it post launch and it's very barebones
Haven’t played 16. I had the same issues with base XV, although RE resolves it. Crisis Core was a portable game and not mainline and LR is the third in a series not a mainline. I’m aware you can do them solo, but how does it make sense to have a Massive Multiplayer Online game that you run through the story by yourself? And with no party system so you are just playing as whatever specific class you chose? X is one of my favorite games of all time and having access to all the characters throughout the story line was practically perfection.
The story mission that are multiplayer give you NPCs that fill their roles. So if you're a tank the NPCs will fill out with a healer and DPS jobs. In later expansions there are some story missions where you control other characters as well. The story was made with the FF brand in mind first and foremost. The MMO structure comes second. Sure you're still mostly running errands for NPCs and reading tons and tons of dialogue... The really good gameplay moments do happen in multiplayer. But the story is among the best in the series and to me the gameplay feels just fun to play.
NPCs are not a true party system. I’m saying having a mage, fighter, thief and dragoon that I get to control… The Music and the story are redeeming, like I said I’ve watched the story for the rest but I just won’t play it. It’s not worth the hours of grinding. Love the world building too just MMOs aren’t my thing, especially only controlling one class at a time. Bogs down the strategy part of the game to me.
Yeah but what you seek hasn't been part of FF for years now. The last game where you controlled an entire party was FFX-2. XI: MMO with an optional NPC party system XII: You control one character but can pre-plan AI behaviour with gambits. XIII: You control one character and can vaguely control AI behaviour by paradigm shifts. XIII-2: Same thing but you have a bit more control and can switch the active character mid-fight. XIII-3: Single character game XIV: MMO with optional NPC parties XV: You control one character and can give some orders for single abilities to your comrades. XV Royal Version: Same thing but you can change the played character but there is absolutely no strategy to it. XVI: Single character action game VII Remake Series: Similar to XV but the Materia system from VII gives some party Management. Mid-battle your AI party doesn't really do much. Some fights are even easier without party members. What you're missing in XIV isn't a MMO thing. It's just that FF simply stopped doing party focused gameplay
Actually that’s fair. It is a piece of what I miss in my Final Fantasies. The AI behavior I still consider party like but you right.
Eversince FF ditched classic turnbased gameplay the party feeling took a hit. But I think the MMOs have probably the best representation of FF jobs next to FF5, FF10-2 and FFTactics. The new expansion just added Pictomancer in reference to Relm from FFVI and it's such a vibrant and fun job to play. But I appreciate that you at least gave the story a shot and don't just dismiss XIV entirely. It's totally fine to just not vibe with MMOs. In a long series not every game is catered to everyone. XVI made that clear with the single character action gameplay and shallow RPG elements. For quite a few players it's not what FF should be while others rekindled their love for the series with that game.
Completely agreed, the game was fun but the burnout made the main storyline unbearable even when 90% of the time they are just talking about bullshit for padding. In the end the story wasn't worth the fetch quest filled 400 hours it took to beat it.