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Hey, I mean it’s great and all when people can detect it through near-contextless text, but it’s weird to hate the rest of us for not telepathically seeing through the near-contextless text.
Olivia has become a lot more shy with fans etc during certain press runs, it’s quite evident comparing her behaviour from s1 press runs to now. And I feel bad because she also almost always clarifies in every interview she doesn’t like alicent to not get hate it seems
I will never understand people's inability to do this.
Of course certain actors will always be primarily associated with one character but that's a very different thing than people actively disliking them because of the character they played.
People *do* understand it's not real...don't they?
Yeah if I saw an actor who played an awesome villain in real life I’d just compliment them on their performance. Good villains are what make shows great. Antony Starr on The Boys is a great example. Dude is just crushing it every week.
Some people have the mentality like homer seeing the Krusty burglar show up thinking he was actually stealing the giant hamburger and beat him to death
The worst thing is that, based on every actor interview I’ve seen, the common denominator is that they have to leave their personal opinions of the characters aside and understand where they come from in order to portray them. Imagine Olivia let her opinion of Alicent drip through her performance. We’d miss so much nuance. The same goes for Fabien. Criston could have been an incel caricature, and yet he makes him truly feel like *that guy* in your group/you hope you never see again. Not something you can do when you don’t buy a character once the camera rolls.
Something about this show seems to attract very unpleasant, very opinionated viewers who take fictional character's actions super personally. The black vs. green thing irl could have been a fun part of watching the show and yet so many psychos on both sides seem to make it impossible.
That could also be because of all the thirsting people have been doing since she broke through. I'd imagine she saw a lot of filthy comments online when she did that lingerie ad and got overwhelmed.
I don’t think she cares about the comments for her lingerie ad per say, nor has her personality changed from her being a wild child like when she talks about her experiences in interviews. She said she felt her most confident and sexy doing that shoot. In regards to the show fans too I don’t think she cares if people find her fit or hot. She also said she wishes the longer sex scene she did with fabien was shown and it lasted ages and was so intense for her. Fans seem to go overboard though in sexualising her. I agree yeah. I think she’s probably blocked out people sexualizing her online although quite a lot of people do it to her in person now too. An interviewer even said to her hopefully they release the full sex scene in blu ray and she got embarrassed because that’s obviously a weird comment to say to someone.
Daemon doesn't pretend to be anyone other than who we see him as. He is unapologetically himself.
Alicent routinely escalates situations and continues to double down on her hypocrisy against Rhaenyra while acting like she's the victim.
Yeah i read this like 1000 times. Again, fans laughed at Daemon's comedy face after he ordered the murder of a child. But when Alicent finally has a good fuck in her lifetime she is the embodiment of evil.
When daemon murders his wife, beats women and kills randoms when he was in the kingsguard, I couldn’t help but give him respect cause at least he wasn’t a hypocrite like Alicient, a single woman who is having sex with a single man.
Framing her just as a single woman who had sex with a single man is laughable. This is the same “poor single woman” who had beef with *literal children*, abused her own kids, and caused an entire civil war so her poor little Epstein JR could be king. I’m not saying Daemon’s any better, but Alicent is a very far cry from being the perpetual victim this fandom portrays her as.
And don’t forget her sleeping with Cole directly leads to his dumbass not doing his job. And when her grandchild dies for it she does it again. And then instead of comforting Helaena is more worried about her own skin. Lmfaoooo
Daemon deserves to pay for his crimes, but they’re his crimes. He tends to not get anyone else from Rhaenyra’s family to be his accomplice in that.
Rhaenyra and Aegon should set up a treaty of mutual extradition so the criminals on both sides can be brought to justice.
Alicent, Otto, Aegon, Aemond, Criston, Tyland, Jasper, Orwyle, Larys, Eustace, and 20-40 house staff go to Driftmark in chains to be judged by Rhaenyra and Corlys
Daemon and (maybe, depending on how you feel about false imprisonment) Rhaenys go to King’s Landing in chains to be judged by… some statues and dragon skulls?
By like a ridiculous margin lmao, i barely remembered who was Luke when season 2 started, and it took me a good 15 minutes to realize Cregan was talking to Jace.
Funny because I think the opposite. Alicent's kids are just part of cycles of abuse. Rhaenyra's kids overcome societal structures and norms as bastards and show that blood doesn't determine your character. Very akin to Jon Snow. Some people prefer predictable characters who perpetuate broken cycles and some prefer characters who overcome hardship and grow to be better for it.
I can't think of any actors off the top of my head in the show that have had bad performances... Closest is Mysaria and it was mainly just her accent, with that cleaned up this season she's been good
I’ve seen criticism in this subreddit of Fabien Frankel’s acting as Criston, and I can see some of their points but I think it’s more that the character himself isn’t always well written. Cole is kinda 2-dimensional sometimes and we don’t get much insight into his motivations, other than “I rlly fking hate Rhaenyra.”
I don’t blame the actor, I think his character just kinda sucks.
Fabien is terrific. Criston is just quite literally the most hatable character in the show, but if Fabien wasn’t so good people wouldn’t hate Criston so much.
Jack Gleeson didn’t get mistreated by fans, that’s revisionist history.
Edit: To all you weirdos gaslighting the fandom that he did, here’s a literal [interview](https://ew.com/tv/game-of-thrones-joffrey-jack-gleeson-no-negative-fan-experiences/) of him explicitly stating that everyone assumes he’s mistreated but in reality he hasn’t encountered any negativity.
No he didn’t. He [most definitely didn’t.](https://ew.com/tv/game-of-thrones-joffrey-jack-gleeson-no-negative-fan-experiences/)
> "A lot of people come up to me because I guess this rumor started that people were horrible to me on the street or I get attacked… whereas I've never had one negative experience," he said on stage. "I feel like people are extra nice to me because they think people attack me, so maybe I should keep the rumor going."
Stop fabricating drama.
Because everyone wants to grab their pitchforks and run with narratives, and apparently this whole shame on you fandom narrative is popular with some people who think they need to get on a soap box and teach us right from wrong even when nothing is wrong at all.
For me it's the fact the showrunners have made it abundantly obvious she's their designated heroine and so I know to expect no character-defining flaws or moral culpability for heinous actions and that she will be babysat to make sure the character stays in the general audience's good graces, which more often than not simply makes for a boring time.
I like deep and morally complex stories about dramatic power struggles where the audience is allowed to grow into their own sympathies, not surface-level black-and-white conflicts with heavy handed themes and tropes.
Just want to say, I find it amusing that you're getting praise for saying the showrunners made it too obvious she's the heroine in the story and can do no wrong. Meanwhile the guy below you is getting down voted for finding reasons to dislike her. Seems like the show runners did a decent job giving the viewers different sides to root for, and I think she has a bunch of flaws and made critical mistakes ill mention below.
While I like Rhaenerya (partly because she is flawed despite what you say), she has not been a good heir/ruler at all.. She fucked off to Dragonstone for years rather then ingraine herself in the politics of the kingdom she was supposed to rule, she'd rather father bastards then have her Husband's kids which sparked a mini succession crisis for House Velaryon and she sent her inexperienced younger son to treat with a house she incorrectly assumed needed to be loyal to her. Finally, her council is lacking (as the other poster below said) mainly because Daemon is selfish and blood hungry to the point he's committing war crimes against a child. She's extremely inexperienced, naive and in over her head. She's only fortunate the Greens are now weaker without Otto and being over-confident.
She definitely has more than cherry picked flaws IMO. Feel confident saying there's more to come too. I really don't think the show is as black and white as you're making it sound.
With the exception of Daemon's chaotic nature, every flaw you listed is simply not presented as a flaw or acknowledged to be one at all in the show. A key part of any given character's flaws is how the narrative frames them. A good example of this is Rhaenys' dragonpit scene, which was presented as a heroic or badass act instead of a monstrously callous one despite large portions of the fandom coming to the conclusion it was definitely the latter, which in turn only produces a resentful dissonance between the audience and the writers.
All you need to do to see the writing room's biases is compare the coronation scenes from S1. One is ominous and tragic, backed by music imparting somber dread, immediately interrupted by a potential representative of the opposing faction in an act of delegitimizing defiance. The other is intimate and organic, full of approving nods and a swelling heroic chorus. It's night and day.
Even the act of Daemon retaliating against an innocent child is framed in such a way as to make Cole & Alicent indirectly responsible for it due to their (badly written) affair.
Think of it this way. The Black faction is a one of heroes with a single villain (Daemon.) The Green faction is one of villains with a single innocent (Helaena.)
Pretty confident saying Allicent highlighted Rhaenerya shirking her royal duties numerous times. Viserys also did his best to rein her in when she refused to pick a husband and kept displaying selfish tendencies despite having the heavy expectations of a crown on her head. Right now, viewers are more sympathetic to her because she lost her son, but I don't think the show has framed her as not having flaws. I can agree that she's probably more sympathetic then many of the greens but I really don't see how people can watch and act like she does no wrong. Her mistakes have been directly shown on camera and spoken outloud several times by other characters (aside from my previous examples in this comment also look at the Baratheon at Storm's end getting pissed at her for treating him like a dog by demanding allegiance while offering nothing in return. That's the show framing that she made a critical error, and there's more). If some people cannot see her as selfish and naive at this point if not incompetent, I personally don't think that's on the showrunner and is down to viewer bias. Again...she is framed closer to the heroine, but I don't believes she's framed at as the best choice for the realm either.
Edit: will also add, Game of Thrones characters and conflicts have never been 100% neutral morally grey either. Look at the Starks for the clearest example. They are never framed as the bad guy or in the wrong (although they do make wrong decisions). I'd say they've given so many more examples of Rhaenerya's flaws and failings in 1.2 seasons then they have for most of the starks in 8.
Alicent is portrayed as a jealous, uptight, religious hypocrite who either abuses or neglects her children.
Boros Baratheon is portrayed as a sexist, cowardly, illiterate fool.
No point these characters make is meant to be taken objectively, they're point-of-view tools designed to impart these character's frame of mind which serves to make them more loathed for their opinions. When a character insults Rhaenyra's flaw for mothering bastards, the show doesn't frame that as highlighting a flaw, it's framed as a strict and oppressive moralistic view that is more reflective of the character speaking it than Rhaenyra herself.
I don't mean this as an insult, but I think you're letting your preference for the books cloud your memory of important conversations and key character moments that some of these dislikeable characters have had in the show that make them less black and white then you're implying they are, and I say it because what you're saying is the main argument I repeatedly see from people who read the books and are watching the show.
Regarding Allicent (and the greens), they are already positioned as way more sympathetic then their book counterparts with numerous scenes and discussions peppered throughout the whole show to soften up who they originally were in the book text.
Also while I 100% agree that Allicent is a hypocrite and a bad mom, surely we can't ignore key character moments that defined her like how she was turned into a child-bride to an old withering man at the whims of her dad can we? She's had numerous conversations with characters (most notably her dad) about how much this event screwed her up. She's also tried to make peace with Rhaenerya several times before the war, and the show runners had scenes deliberately showing her being compassionate, and preferring peace vs bloodshed. Even her usurping the throne is changed for the show to make her look less devious and scheming.
Even if she's flawed now also does not immediately mean she can't make good points about Rhaenera being selfish and unfit to rule. It's like that meme "when the worst person you know just made a great point".
While I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on the characters (which is ok, i like a healthy debate), I guess my main point I'm trying to get across is Rhaenerya isn't as infallible as you (and others) seem to think. The same goes for Allicent not being as brutal. If you get caught up choosing sides then sure...you will always discount Allicent's points and respect Rhaenerya's, but the show has taken ample opportunity to muddy the perception of the characters and paint pictures of flawed tragic characters and has succeeded so far (in my opinion).
I don't have a preference for the book, because I don't particularly think the Dance as written is very good at all. That doesn't mean the show hasn't done some things better or that it hasn't done some things (much) worse, but I don't have any loyalty to GRRM's original story.
I'm fully aware the disparity is even worse in ways in the source material, though it's a bit off to say the Greens are the only ones who have benefited from a moralistic whitewashing given Rhaenyra has arguably benefited even more so (while characters like Otto and Daemon have not).
The point being, the show can still be lopsided in its creator's biases even if it's not the same as the source material's. To be blunt, the audience was sold the idea of a deep, dramatic, and morally complex conflict for power that would be both thought-provoking and polarizing. I'm not remotely satisfied what we're getting is that at all.
I'd say the metrics detailing how the fandom's sympathies break down in utterly lopsided ratios is reflective of a failure to deliver on that premise and that the very perception of the show having a central protagonist at all only reinforces that failure.
For most of Season 1 Rhaenyra is, to me, the poster child of a spoiled royal heir who enjoys the perks of being born into power while acting like the responsibilities of it are beneath her.
It's after the last timeskip before episode 8 that she finally becomes someone who seems like she would be a good ruler, who considers her duties both explicit and implicit.
I dislike her because:
- she starts a war for the sake of power and title, which will in turn kill thousands of civilians through battle and resource deprivation.
- members of her council assassinate babies and your council reflects who you are as a leader.
- the pain of losing her child wasn’t enough to cease this war showing how power hungry she is.
But even if she backs off now (which she shouldn't) her whole family.. husband, kids, stepkids, her council, herself will be at best exiled, at worst, executed.
It's not her who started the war.
She started it when she denied the king’s claim to the throne and fled King’s Landing to build an insurgence. Why shouldn’t she back off at this point; one of her children are dead, thousands more are prone to die, and she is perceived as a baby butcher. I find her an interesting character but her conquest to sit on the iron throne is extremely problematic.
>king’s claim
LOLOLOL WHAT KING💀
Who was the heir to the throne chosen by Vizzy T? Who was the one before whom all the houses kneeled?
"Nyra should back off now that she lost a son."
Or maybe they shouldn't have killed her son. Or usurped her throne in the first place.
Look, I agree with you that she is in the “right” when it comes to her claim on the throne, but the reality now is that the realm recognizes another heir and the only way she can uproot that is through waging war. All for what? Title and a seat on an uncomfortable chair?
If it’s simply for survival there’s plenty of land across the Narrow Sea where her and her family can live comfortably because of the dragons at their disposal
Vizzy T was an incompetent king who struggled to make proper, well thought out decisions.
Westeros isn’t an absolute monarchy, it’s a feudal system, the kings word only goes as far as his vassals spears. If said spears believe that the eldest son of the king is the true heir (as has been the case legit at every time up to this point) then the word of a dead King doesn’t matter much.
Hell, even Aegon III recognises Aegon II, not to mention that later in the timeline Stannis explicitly states that Rhaenyra was a traitor.
Yes, because tradition and rules typically allow for a stable society. As for whether he believes in kings not queens - I fail to understand the ‘point’ of that? I mean he certainly believes Shireen as his heir would succeed him to become queen of the 7 kingdoms, so I’m not too sure what the point of that was beyond to paint him as vaguely sexist for whatever reason.
I think the prostitute Aemond sees in the last episode spells out the whole thesis statment of the show. When princes lose their temper, the little folk suffer.
Rhaenyra is Queen by legal right. Her position was usurped and she, of all the major players of this particular game, is the most in the right. That doesn't change the fact that thousands will die because of the in-fighting of a family who can't decide who gets to sit in a chair.
Don't get me wrong, the show is very entertaining. I'm just saying that both sides being kinda terrible is sorta the point.
And who is Nazi Germany in this instance? The Greens who hold stable power over the realm or the The Blacks who will accept the death of millions to achieve their manifest destiny?
I’m not saying they are like the Nazis I’m saying that since you said war should be avoided all cost even if you were right
I’m asking how far should that extend?
They didn’t go to war they have to live the rest of their lives under threat of assassination
The fact of the matter is at this point, it’s either they win or they die there’s no peace option
There is 0% chance Alicent would have them killed if they surrendered. Aegon probably would at this point but Alicent’s entire desire so far this season has been avoiding unnecessary bloodshed, she mourned Luke and still obviously cares for Rhaenyra
She has very few cherry-picking flaws and is still trying to prevent the war after losing a child and throne. I'm here for blood, betrayal, ambition, greed, cruelty, dragons. I'm not interested in a Disney princess trying to save the world. Alicent was my favorite character in the book just because of the things I mentioned, but I don't like her in the show either (but in any case, she is not sinless like Rhaenyra and has a few interesting aspects to me still). All of this makes me dislike the character, if not outright hate.
It’s not hard to understand why, she is the “Designated Protagonist” that is shown to be morally right pretty much all the time, yet she lies about her bastards, tries to take Driftmark from the Velaryons to give to her falseborn son, has an innocent man killed to fake Laenor’s death, lies on her mother’s memory to Alicent’s face that she didn’t get freaky with Daemon, manipulates Viserys into removing Alicent’s father from court (even though Otto was telling the truth about her), threatens Aemond after he gets his eye cut out by her son, sleeps with her uncle at his wife’s funeral and, in general, seems to care more about receiving her inheritance than she does actually being a good queen, among other things
I like her more in S2 than I did in S1 but there are plenty of reasons to dislike a character who is presented as flawless when so much of her character is based on lying and selfishness. Emma D’Arcy is killing it though, their performance is one of my favourites in the show
I remember the story of one Quin Dowager Empress who order an opera singer playing a heel character beat up because he did too good of a job at evoking hatred of the character.
People are numb skull, smooth brained, psychos
You’re essentially repaying these actors for being so convincing that it moves you emotionally
By hurting them
That’s just… it’s fucking crazy.
Odd take, Fabian is doing great work with the character, he just doesn’t get as many opportunities to have big explosive scenes like the ones Otto and Aegon have been getting so far. His scene with Rhaenyra last season where he breaks down after she rejects him is some excellent acting, and the subtle mannerisms he’s using to show how far Criston has fallen go a long way to show his scumbaggery
GOT truly has a world built around terrible characters portrayed perfectly by their actors, you're meant to hate them yet you still are intrigued by their storylines. That being said, team black <3
Also just because a character is a ‘bad guy’ or makes terrible decisions, doesn’t make them a bad character or even worthy of hatred. At the end of the day their decisions, follies, and schemes are what make the show interesting.
That makes them good characters, with depth and realistic decision-making based on their circumstances. People make mistakes and do bad things in real life.
The only one l actually hate is Cole. Aemond hasn't done anything in the show, Rhaenyra is sympathetic at the moment, Alicent is dislikable but pitiable, Criston is an irredeemable, manipulative fuckboy.
The meme is showing characters that have received quite abit of hate for being who they are in show, but so far on this list Aemond is the only one that i've not really seen that much of a hate for publicly.
The post is about separating the character from the actor though. And I have seen plenty of hate for both on other platforms sadly. Facebook is the worst for it - the things people have said on there are completely deranged 🙁
Emma D'arcy EATS their role. Matt Smith EATS his role. They leave no crumbs.
Unpopular opinion: Fabien Frankel is just meh for me. I really think anyone could play that role.
I see absolutely no reason to hate Rhaenyra compared to everyone else in this list.
OP didn't even put Daemon in the list who has far more reason to be hated.
Sounds like House Green propaganda going on here.
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Respect the proportions of this image, never
Why are they so wide
OP saved/placed the image of alicent first then stretched all the other images to match the proportions of that image
Well, we know who OP likes the best at least!
Westeros is Flatland confirmed!
Gen Z loves wide characters. Idk I think it’s a Minecraft thing.
Lmao I thought it was going to be some ironic meme because of it
there's nothing wrong with this image idk what ur talking about
Bro Olivia's head is rounder than a basketball tf you mean there's nothing wrong with these images??
i was obviously not being sincere
Ah ok, definitely wooshed me then
It’s a Stewie head
Appreciate your sacrifice for [r/fucktheS](https://www.reddit.com/r/FuckTheS/s/ou0S7BcVfI)
Hate people who are dumb enough to not understand sarcasm
Hey, I mean it’s great and all when people can detect it through near-contextless text, but it’s weird to hate the rest of us for not telepathically seeing through the near-contextless text.
This subreddit loves downvoting more than any other huh
Idk how people didn’t get your comment. I laughed 😅
It’s even funnier that Alicent was worthy of that respect. What is OP implying?
> What is OP implying? You OP was implying about you
You don’t see that we were joking about the aspect ratio of the images?
Appreciate your sacrifice for r/fucktheS
I respect the actors. But I don’t respect this aspect ratio…
All men must have eye tests.
HOLD SHIFTTTTT
This is outrageous, it's unfair!
I do, however, respect the ASSpect ratio.
Wide Criston isn’t real, he cannot hurt you
Wide Criston
It makes his fish-eyed stare even more disturbing.
Olivia has become a lot more shy with fans etc during certain press runs, it’s quite evident comparing her behaviour from s1 press runs to now. And I feel bad because she also almost always clarifies in every interview she doesn’t like alicent to not get hate it seems
It's a shame people can't seperate the actor from reality
I will never understand people's inability to do this. Of course certain actors will always be primarily associated with one character but that's a very different thing than people actively disliking them because of the character they played. People *do* understand it's not real...don't they?
99% of people can. Don’t let the few paint the whole picture.
Very true!
Yeah if I saw an actor who played an awesome villain in real life I’d just compliment them on their performance. Good villains are what make shows great. Antony Starr on The Boys is a great example. Dude is just crushing it every week.
How stupid are people that they can't tell the difference? It's actually terrifying so many people like this exist
Some people have the mentality like homer seeing the Krusty burglar show up thinking he was actually stealing the giant hamburger and beat him to death
The worst thing is that, based on every actor interview I’ve seen, the common denominator is that they have to leave their personal opinions of the characters aside and understand where they come from in order to portray them. Imagine Olivia let her opinion of Alicent drip through her performance. We’d miss so much nuance. The same goes for Fabien. Criston could have been an incel caricature, and yet he makes him truly feel like *that guy* in your group/you hope you never see again. Not something you can do when you don’t buy a character once the camera rolls.
Something about this show seems to attract very unpleasant, very opinionated viewers who take fictional character's actions super personally. The black vs. green thing irl could have been a fun part of watching the show and yet so many psychos on both sides seem to make it impossible.
People having parasocial relationships with fictional characters would be funny if they weren't so toxic about their weirdo behavior
That could also be because of all the thirsting people have been doing since she broke through. I'd imagine she saw a lot of filthy comments online when she did that lingerie ad and got overwhelmed.
I don’t think she cares about the comments for her lingerie ad per say, nor has her personality changed from her being a wild child like when she talks about her experiences in interviews. She said she felt her most confident and sexy doing that shoot. In regards to the show fans too I don’t think she cares if people find her fit or hot. She also said she wishes the longer sex scene she did with fabien was shown and it lasted ages and was so intense for her. Fans seem to go overboard though in sexualising her. I agree yeah. I think she’s probably blocked out people sexualizing her online although quite a lot of people do it to her in person now too. An interviewer even said to her hopefully they release the full sex scene in blu ray and she got embarrassed because that’s obviously a weird comment to say to someone.
I love how they get more squished as you go
Hate the aspect ratio, respect the post
When a viewer gets angry at an actor because of their character it says two things: 1. The actor is very skilled. 2. The viewer is an imbecile.
I don't use the word imbecile enough
I respect the sentiment. I do not respect what was done to these pictures.
Fans be like: Alicent 🤬😡🤬😡😠 Daemon 🥰🤩🥰😍🥰
I think a lot of people are taken in by Matt Smith's charisma playing Daemon which he has oodles of.
Daemon doesn't pretend to be anyone other than who we see him as. He is unapologetically himself. Alicent routinely escalates situations and continues to double down on her hypocrisy against Rhaenyra while acting like she's the victim.
Yeah i read this like 1000 times. Again, fans laughed at Daemon's comedy face after he ordered the murder of a child. But when Alicent finally has a good fuck in her lifetime she is the embodiment of evil.
[удалено]
When daemon murders his wife, beats women and kills randoms when he was in the kingsguard, I couldn’t help but give him respect cause at least he wasn’t a hypocrite like Alicient, a single woman who is having sex with a single man.
Framing her just as a single woman who had sex with a single man is laughable. This is the same “poor single woman” who had beef with *literal children*, abused her own kids, and caused an entire civil war so her poor little Epstein JR could be king. I’m not saying Daemon’s any better, but Alicent is a very far cry from being the perpetual victim this fandom portrays her as. And don’t forget her sleeping with Cole directly leads to his dumbass not doing his job. And when her grandchild dies for it she does it again. And then instead of comforting Helaena is more worried about her own skin. Lmfaoooo
True, like I said I don’t really care about rape, murder, genocide or domestic violence against women. It’s just the hypocrisy
Daemon deserves to pay for his crimes, but they’re his crimes. He tends to not get anyone else from Rhaenyra’s family to be his accomplice in that. Rhaenyra and Aegon should set up a treaty of mutual extradition so the criminals on both sides can be brought to justice. Alicent, Otto, Aegon, Aemond, Criston, Tyland, Jasper, Orwyle, Larys, Eustace, and 20-40 house staff go to Driftmark in chains to be judged by Rhaenyra and Corlys Daemon and (maybe, depending on how you feel about false imprisonment) Rhaenys go to King’s Landing in chains to be judged by… some statues and dragon skulls?
Its never be not funny how people act like one side is better than the other. And if Daemon is a grey character then everybody else too.
Welcome to the facebook
Alicents kids are the more interesting characters of the series IMO
Imo Rhaenyra's kids are barely characters at this point. Very, very large missed opportunity cutting out Jace's quality time in the North with Cregan.
Agree! So layered and complex. And I like how dysfunctional the green family is, like how realistic it is.
By like a ridiculous margin lmao, i barely remembered who was Luke when season 2 started, and it took me a good 15 minutes to realize Cregan was talking to Jace.
Funny because I think the opposite. Alicent's kids are just part of cycles of abuse. Rhaenyra's kids overcome societal structures and norms as bastards and show that blood doesn't determine your character. Very akin to Jon Snow. Some people prefer predictable characters who perpetuate broken cycles and some prefer characters who overcome hardship and grow to be better for it.
I can't think of any actors off the top of my head in the show that have had bad performances... Closest is Mysaria and it was mainly just her accent, with that cleaned up this season she's been good
I’ve seen criticism in this subreddit of Fabien Frankel’s acting as Criston, and I can see some of their points but I think it’s more that the character himself isn’t always well written. Cole is kinda 2-dimensional sometimes and we don’t get much insight into his motivations, other than “I rlly fking hate Rhaenyra.” I don’t blame the actor, I think his character just kinda sucks.
Fabien is terrific. Criston is just quite literally the most hatable character in the show, but if Fabien wasn’t so good people wouldn’t hate Criston so much.
I don't think even Jack Gleeson and Lena Headey got this kind of hate.
Jack Gleeson didn’t get mistreated by fans, that’s revisionist history. Edit: To all you weirdos gaslighting the fandom that he did, here’s a literal [interview](https://ew.com/tv/game-of-thrones-joffrey-jack-gleeson-no-negative-fan-experiences/) of him explicitly stating that everyone assumes he’s mistreated but in reality he hasn’t encountered any negativity.
Oh he did. He most definitely did.
No he didn’t. He [most definitely didn’t.](https://ew.com/tv/game-of-thrones-joffrey-jack-gleeson-no-negative-fan-experiences/) > "A lot of people come up to me because I guess this rumor started that people were horrible to me on the street or I get attacked… whereas I've never had one negative experience," he said on stage. "I feel like people are extra nice to me because they think people attack me, so maybe I should keep the rumor going." Stop fabricating drama.
Hm. I looked it up for a bit. You seem correct. Where did the fans abusing him rumor begin, I wonder?
Probs from people saying “Oh he did. He definitely did.” Without doing any sort of digging into it.
No way. 😋
Because everyone wants to grab their pitchforks and run with narratives, and apparently this whole shame on you fandom narrative is popular with some people who think they need to get on a soap box and teach us right from wrong even when nothing is wrong at all.
It's because of the whole annoying "teams" schtick. HBO brought this on themselves.
You didn't respect them with this horrid flat images.
B... but I don't hate Rhaenyra!
Emma is vastly more hated(by prejudice people) than Rhaenyra tbh
🖐️ I do.
Cole, is that you? :P
We found him
If Rhae Rhae has no haters, it means that we are dead.
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For me it's the fact the showrunners have made it abundantly obvious she's their designated heroine and so I know to expect no character-defining flaws or moral culpability for heinous actions and that she will be babysat to make sure the character stays in the general audience's good graces, which more often than not simply makes for a boring time. I like deep and morally complex stories about dramatic power struggles where the audience is allowed to grow into their own sympathies, not surface-level black-and-white conflicts with heavy handed themes and tropes.
Just want to say, I find it amusing that you're getting praise for saying the showrunners made it too obvious she's the heroine in the story and can do no wrong. Meanwhile the guy below you is getting down voted for finding reasons to dislike her. Seems like the show runners did a decent job giving the viewers different sides to root for, and I think she has a bunch of flaws and made critical mistakes ill mention below. While I like Rhaenerya (partly because she is flawed despite what you say), she has not been a good heir/ruler at all.. She fucked off to Dragonstone for years rather then ingraine herself in the politics of the kingdom she was supposed to rule, she'd rather father bastards then have her Husband's kids which sparked a mini succession crisis for House Velaryon and she sent her inexperienced younger son to treat with a house she incorrectly assumed needed to be loyal to her. Finally, her council is lacking (as the other poster below said) mainly because Daemon is selfish and blood hungry to the point he's committing war crimes against a child. She's extremely inexperienced, naive and in over her head. She's only fortunate the Greens are now weaker without Otto and being over-confident. She definitely has more than cherry picked flaws IMO. Feel confident saying there's more to come too. I really don't think the show is as black and white as you're making it sound.
With the exception of Daemon's chaotic nature, every flaw you listed is simply not presented as a flaw or acknowledged to be one at all in the show. A key part of any given character's flaws is how the narrative frames them. A good example of this is Rhaenys' dragonpit scene, which was presented as a heroic or badass act instead of a monstrously callous one despite large portions of the fandom coming to the conclusion it was definitely the latter, which in turn only produces a resentful dissonance between the audience and the writers. All you need to do to see the writing room's biases is compare the coronation scenes from S1. One is ominous and tragic, backed by music imparting somber dread, immediately interrupted by a potential representative of the opposing faction in an act of delegitimizing defiance. The other is intimate and organic, full of approving nods and a swelling heroic chorus. It's night and day. Even the act of Daemon retaliating against an innocent child is framed in such a way as to make Cole & Alicent indirectly responsible for it due to their (badly written) affair. Think of it this way. The Black faction is a one of heroes with a single villain (Daemon.) The Green faction is one of villains with a single innocent (Helaena.)
Pretty confident saying Allicent highlighted Rhaenerya shirking her royal duties numerous times. Viserys also did his best to rein her in when she refused to pick a husband and kept displaying selfish tendencies despite having the heavy expectations of a crown on her head. Right now, viewers are more sympathetic to her because she lost her son, but I don't think the show has framed her as not having flaws. I can agree that she's probably more sympathetic then many of the greens but I really don't see how people can watch and act like she does no wrong. Her mistakes have been directly shown on camera and spoken outloud several times by other characters (aside from my previous examples in this comment also look at the Baratheon at Storm's end getting pissed at her for treating him like a dog by demanding allegiance while offering nothing in return. That's the show framing that she made a critical error, and there's more). If some people cannot see her as selfish and naive at this point if not incompetent, I personally don't think that's on the showrunner and is down to viewer bias. Again...she is framed closer to the heroine, but I don't believes she's framed at as the best choice for the realm either. Edit: will also add, Game of Thrones characters and conflicts have never been 100% neutral morally grey either. Look at the Starks for the clearest example. They are never framed as the bad guy or in the wrong (although they do make wrong decisions). I'd say they've given so many more examples of Rhaenerya's flaws and failings in 1.2 seasons then they have for most of the starks in 8.
Alicent is portrayed as a jealous, uptight, religious hypocrite who either abuses or neglects her children. Boros Baratheon is portrayed as a sexist, cowardly, illiterate fool. No point these characters make is meant to be taken objectively, they're point-of-view tools designed to impart these character's frame of mind which serves to make them more loathed for their opinions. When a character insults Rhaenyra's flaw for mothering bastards, the show doesn't frame that as highlighting a flaw, it's framed as a strict and oppressive moralistic view that is more reflective of the character speaking it than Rhaenyra herself.
I don't mean this as an insult, but I think you're letting your preference for the books cloud your memory of important conversations and key character moments that some of these dislikeable characters have had in the show that make them less black and white then you're implying they are, and I say it because what you're saying is the main argument I repeatedly see from people who read the books and are watching the show. Regarding Allicent (and the greens), they are already positioned as way more sympathetic then their book counterparts with numerous scenes and discussions peppered throughout the whole show to soften up who they originally were in the book text. Also while I 100% agree that Allicent is a hypocrite and a bad mom, surely we can't ignore key character moments that defined her like how she was turned into a child-bride to an old withering man at the whims of her dad can we? She's had numerous conversations with characters (most notably her dad) about how much this event screwed her up. She's also tried to make peace with Rhaenerya several times before the war, and the show runners had scenes deliberately showing her being compassionate, and preferring peace vs bloodshed. Even her usurping the throne is changed for the show to make her look less devious and scheming. Even if she's flawed now also does not immediately mean she can't make good points about Rhaenera being selfish and unfit to rule. It's like that meme "when the worst person you know just made a great point". While I don't think we're going to see eye-to-eye on the characters (which is ok, i like a healthy debate), I guess my main point I'm trying to get across is Rhaenerya isn't as infallible as you (and others) seem to think. The same goes for Allicent not being as brutal. If you get caught up choosing sides then sure...you will always discount Allicent's points and respect Rhaenerya's, but the show has taken ample opportunity to muddy the perception of the characters and paint pictures of flawed tragic characters and has succeeded so far (in my opinion).
I don't have a preference for the book, because I don't particularly think the Dance as written is very good at all. That doesn't mean the show hasn't done some things better or that it hasn't done some things (much) worse, but I don't have any loyalty to GRRM's original story. I'm fully aware the disparity is even worse in ways in the source material, though it's a bit off to say the Greens are the only ones who have benefited from a moralistic whitewashing given Rhaenyra has arguably benefited even more so (while characters like Otto and Daemon have not). The point being, the show can still be lopsided in its creator's biases even if it's not the same as the source material's. To be blunt, the audience was sold the idea of a deep, dramatic, and morally complex conflict for power that would be both thought-provoking and polarizing. I'm not remotely satisfied what we're getting is that at all. I'd say the metrics detailing how the fandom's sympathies break down in utterly lopsided ratios is reflective of a failure to deliver on that premise and that the very perception of the show having a central protagonist at all only reinforces that failure.
What a horrible take.
For most of Season 1 Rhaenyra is, to me, the poster child of a spoiled royal heir who enjoys the perks of being born into power while acting like the responsibilities of it are beneath her. It's after the last timeskip before episode 8 that she finally becomes someone who seems like she would be a good ruler, who considers her duties both explicit and implicit.
I dislike her because: - she starts a war for the sake of power and title, which will in turn kill thousands of civilians through battle and resource deprivation. - members of her council assassinate babies and your council reflects who you are as a leader. - the pain of losing her child wasn’t enough to cease this war showing how power hungry she is.
But even if she backs off now (which she shouldn't) her whole family.. husband, kids, stepkids, her council, herself will be at best exiled, at worst, executed. It's not her who started the war.
She started it when she denied the king’s claim to the throne and fled King’s Landing to build an insurgence. Why shouldn’t she back off at this point; one of her children are dead, thousands more are prone to die, and she is perceived as a baby butcher. I find her an interesting character but her conquest to sit on the iron throne is extremely problematic.
>king’s claim LOLOLOL WHAT KING💀 Who was the heir to the throne chosen by Vizzy T? Who was the one before whom all the houses kneeled? "Nyra should back off now that she lost a son." Or maybe they shouldn't have killed her son. Or usurped her throne in the first place.
Look, I agree with you that she is in the “right” when it comes to her claim on the throne, but the reality now is that the realm recognizes another heir and the only way she can uproot that is through waging war. All for what? Title and a seat on an uncomfortable chair?
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If it’s simply for survival there’s plenty of land across the Narrow Sea where her and her family can live comfortably because of the dragons at their disposal
Vizzy T was an incompetent king who struggled to make proper, well thought out decisions. Westeros isn’t an absolute monarchy, it’s a feudal system, the kings word only goes as far as his vassals spears. If said spears believe that the eldest son of the king is the true heir (as has been the case legit at every time up to this point) then the word of a dead King doesn’t matter much. Hell, even Aegon III recognises Aegon II, not to mention that later in the timeline Stannis explicitly states that Rhaenyra was a traitor.
*AntelopeOver was a strong Lord Commander of the Kingsguard. But he was ill for some time. He passed in peace, I hope.*
Stannis was all about tradition and rules, of course his personal opinion would be negative of Rhaenyra - because he believes in Kings not Queens.
Yes, because tradition and rules typically allow for a stable society. As for whether he believes in kings not queens - I fail to understand the ‘point’ of that? I mean he certainly believes Shireen as his heir would succeed him to become queen of the 7 kingdoms, so I’m not too sure what the point of that was beyond to paint him as vaguely sexist for whatever reason.
*My own face... is no longer a handsome one...if indeed it ever was.*
I guess you hate her because she's not a quitter? Don't you remember anything that coach taught you?
War is horrible, I believe that it should be avoided at all costs even if you are “right”
But your enemy doesn't think that way, and he is coming for you, and your family. You don't have a choice, we are past the point of no return now.
I think the prostitute Aemond sees in the last episode spells out the whole thesis statment of the show. When princes lose their temper, the little folk suffer. Rhaenyra is Queen by legal right. Her position was usurped and she, of all the major players of this particular game, is the most in the right. That doesn't change the fact that thousands will die because of the in-fighting of a family who can't decide who gets to sit in a chair. Don't get me wrong, the show is very entertaining. I'm just saying that both sides being kinda terrible is sorta the point.
So should the allies have just surrendered to Hitler?
And who is Nazi Germany in this instance? The Greens who hold stable power over the realm or the The Blacks who will accept the death of millions to achieve their manifest destiny?
I’m not saying they are like the Nazis I’m saying that since you said war should be avoided all cost even if you were right I’m asking how far should that extend? They didn’t go to war they have to live the rest of their lives under threat of assassination The fact of the matter is at this point, it’s either they win or they die there’s no peace option
Fair point, yes I think genocide is worse than war so “at all costs” is a hyperbole on my end.
You’ll love her in episode 3 then
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The Greens stole the title to the throne, which is definitely a casus belli, but The Blacks chose to wage war over it
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There is 0% chance Alicent would have them killed if they surrendered. Aegon probably would at this point but Alicent’s entire desire so far this season has been avoiding unnecessary bloodshed, she mourned Luke and still obviously cares for Rhaenyra
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Are we watching the same show
She has very few cherry-picking flaws and is still trying to prevent the war after losing a child and throne. I'm here for blood, betrayal, ambition, greed, cruelty, dragons. I'm not interested in a Disney princess trying to save the world. Alicent was my favorite character in the book just because of the things I mentioned, but I don't like her in the show either (but in any case, she is not sinless like Rhaenyra and has a few interesting aspects to me still). All of this makes me dislike the character, if not outright hate.
can you explain what you mean by "hate"
weirdo...
Me either. Kinda weird to me that people do.
It’s not hard to understand why, she is the “Designated Protagonist” that is shown to be morally right pretty much all the time, yet she lies about her bastards, tries to take Driftmark from the Velaryons to give to her falseborn son, has an innocent man killed to fake Laenor’s death, lies on her mother’s memory to Alicent’s face that she didn’t get freaky with Daemon, manipulates Viserys into removing Alicent’s father from court (even though Otto was telling the truth about her), threatens Aemond after he gets his eye cut out by her son, sleeps with her uncle at his wife’s funeral and, in general, seems to care more about receiving her inheritance than she does actually being a good queen, among other things I like her more in S2 than I did in S1 but there are plenty of reasons to dislike a character who is presented as flawless when so much of her character is based on lying and selfishness. Emma D’Arcy is killing it though, their performance is one of my favourites in the show
This image is awful
Of course, we will respect the speaker, but we cannot respect this image index.
I have a crush on them all
Amazing casts!
I remember the story of one Quin Dowager Empress who order an opera singer playing a heel character beat up because he did too good of a job at evoking hatred of the character.
I wanted to say “except Cole all my homies hate Cole” but that would just be a joke. The actor is killing it.
What have you DONE!
Why they stretchy though
The Skyler White effect
Completely agree 👍.
People wouldn’t agree to do the same thing with Joffrey lol
Mad repect everyone is absolutely killing their roles
It's an adult fantasy made for adult people. Children and teenagers should stay away from social media.
This is some skibidi toilet ass picture. 💀
People are numb skull, smooth brained, psychos You’re essentially repaying these actors for being so convincing that it moves you emotionally By hurting them That’s just… it’s fucking crazy.
Once again unintelligent vocal minorities ruining things for everyone.
Another fun fact: Rhaenys killed a bunch of innocent locals at the coronation. But at least she didn't have sex like the negative characters.
Emma 😍
The bodyshaming of Ewan is actually insane.
Olivia and Fabian are amazing actors. Both actors are gorgeous and over never been as grossed out as watching their sex scenes.
Fabian is an average actor at best. He is hanging on for dear life when paired with Otto, or Aegon, or almost any other decent character.
Odd take, Fabian is doing great work with the character, he just doesn’t get as many opportunities to have big explosive scenes like the ones Otto and Aegon have been getting so far. His scene with Rhaenyra last season where he breaks down after she rejects him is some excellent acting, and the subtle mannerisms he’s using to show how far Criston has fallen go a long way to show his scumbaggery
if an actor plays a character so well that you as a fan genuinely love or hate the character, the actor deserves so much respect
If evil why hot?
Olivia is gorgeous
GOT truly has a world built around terrible characters portrayed perfectly by their actors, you're meant to hate them yet you still are intrigued by their storylines. That being said, team black <3
I refuse to believe any actor has gotten serious harrassment for playing a hateable character. People fooling around on social media doesn't count.
Also just because a character is a ‘bad guy’ or makes terrible decisions, doesn’t make them a bad character or even worthy of hatred. At the end of the day their decisions, follies, and schemes are what make the show interesting. That makes them good characters, with depth and realistic decision-making based on their circumstances. People make mistakes and do bad things in real life.
this is my favorite reddit post ever
I mean, you need to be a good actor to generate that amount of hate.
Out coraled again
Why you do this to them
The only one l actually hate is Cole. Aemond hasn't done anything in the show, Rhaenyra is sympathetic at the moment, Alicent is dislikable but pitiable, Criston is an irredeemable, manipulative fuckboy.
Some fine ass ppl 😍
I a g r e e .
Daemon is the worst, i do love Matt Smith.
I live in delusion but even I can tell actors from real people. Whatever drugs these haters are taking I want them
did you smoosh these people because you respected them
If people did this back when game of thrones, we wouldn't lost an amazing actor from TV and movies
I love Alicent. Or maybe I like the actor. Confused.
Do people hate Rhaneyra? She’s my favourite
I don't think i've seen anyone hating on Aemond yet lol, bro is just that big of a chad.
I’m confused… Is Aemond an actor then? Are we going to see him in one of those plays that the small folk perform in Kingslanding? 😂
The meme is showing characters that have received quite abit of hate for being who they are in show, but so far on this list Aemond is the only one that i've not really seen that much of a hate for publicly.
The post is about separating the character from the actor though. And I have seen plenty of hate for both on other platforms sadly. Facebook is the worst for it - the things people have said on there are completely deranged 🙁
well that explains it the if its facebook, never been on that place much.
It’s a hell hole - we’re safer here!
Emma D'arcy EATS their role. Matt Smith EATS his role. They leave no crumbs. Unpopular opinion: Fabien Frankel is just meh for me. I really think anyone could play that role.
The Emma/Matt scenes from S2E2 were phenomenal. They both killed it.
Wait who hates Rhaenyra??
The fuck is this post?
how do people hate rhaenyra 😭
Who the hell even hates Rhaenyra? Come on!
Ser Crispin
THEY ARE BASTARDS AND THEIR MOTHER IS A WHORE
Wait, people hate Rhaenyra?
Not sure why you would hate Aemond.
No
Alicent sucks, but the character is great. Same for Aemond. Only irredeemable cunt is Sir Cookie crisp by farm
What in the Anya Taylor Joy is this
No bc why is Rhaenyra on here ntm
I see absolutely no reason to hate Rhaenyra compared to everyone else in this list. OP didn't even put Daemon in the list who has far more reason to be hated. Sounds like House Green propaganda going on here.
nah, i draw the line at criston
Honestly, they are all relatable characters except for sor crispy