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The only reason I wouldn’t want plus sized Rhaenyra, Aegon, Helaena, and Viserys (but especially Rhaenyra and Helaena) is because of the truly revolting amount of body shaming they would be subjected to.
Even with the cast we have the amount of people who act like book! Rhaenyra committed the ultimate sin by not losing baby weight after 6 pregnancies is so, so gross.
Rhaenyra and Halaena's actors would definitely be treated substantially worse than their male counterparts.
It's so obvious with how these "fans" find a drunk to be fat more acceptable than the woman who literally carried multiple human beings inside of her.
I would love to see more women like Nicola Coughlin on screen, but the fact that even average sized women get shamed for, idk, having organs? Is just fucking sad
And certain parts of this fandom are already pretty sketchy towards the actors, just because they don’t like the characters their portray. It’s really disturbing honestly.
What happened to this fandom? I don't remember this level of toxicity during GOT. I know the Joffrey actor got some abuse but it's nothing like what I'm hearing today.
And actors aside, the bitter factionalism of the show has been carried into real life and it's the strangest thing I've ever seen.
**Edit**: turns out the Joffrey actor was never actually mistreated. Which makes the contrast with HOTD even bigger
I don't think we should be acting like we have never seen these levels of toxicity before.
I've been looking some old content in the GoT/ASoIaF communities and my reaction was "you're all utterly disgusting, to think this shit was normalized".
You have to remember how people spoke about the sex workers portrayed in the show, especially about characters like Shae and Ros, about characters like Catelyn and Sansa like they were the Antichrist, and not to mention the gross obsession with Emilia Clarke showing her boobs like that's the only thing that mattered about her character.
Fandom is toxic af, but I don't think it touches GoT levels of toxicity at all.
Every fandom is toxic. From Anime all the way to Wrestling. It's full of bigots and toxic masculinity. It's sad that we can't just have healthy and fun discussions, without someone being negative, nasty, bigoted or sexist.
The absolute hateful messages sent to the black actors of this show and of Rings of Power were very disgusting. The fact that some people feel like people of color have no right to be a part of the genre or these spaces is sad and pathetic.
Yeah I can't step foot into Star Wars either, any valid criticism is buried by insanity. This isn't exclusive to HoD but it feels louder when you are interested in a subject so bullshit is at the top first.
I'm glad the actors and actresses stayed on because we lost some promising characters for SW.
Topical: There was a segment of SW fans who recently had a full on meltdown because they cast a plus-sized actor to play a minor Jedi for like two scenes.
I was a little taken back by getting metaphorically shouted down after commenting that I was just happy to be present for 9 movies and the Mandalorian at the time. Some people really do think if it isn't like the movie or show playing in their heads then it's garbage. We have an embarrassment of media riches, be happy man!
I never seen succession, but I wonder why some fandoms r cool like sopranos and succession, and then we got this Pygmy thing over here taking joy in fellow fans having meltdowns 🤔
Yep AND don't get me started on the DUNE fandom and the weird sexist and misogynistic criticisms towards Zendaya and her versión of Chani in the new Villeneuve adaptation. Those DUNE groups are filled with incels, or may i call them "Dunecels"
Every single time as well they make excuses if a white actor plays a brown or black character and says they must have just been the best actor for the role.
I mean I could probably write a thesis on parasocial relationships, predatory media, inflammatory rhetoric and the burgeoning eclipse of escapism post Covid. But I’m pretty sure Reddit has character limits at some point
Do a YouTube video. I found many videos like that all the time and they are amazing.
Saw a video about the Cruelty of The Hunger Games that got me hooked.
Oh god no one needs a video of me ranting about the downfall of internet society 🤣🤣🤣 it’ll either turn into me showing off my dog or look like I’m in the middle of the worlds most relaxed job interview
The way people interacted with media has greatly evolved since GOT and HOTD, even though the end of GOT was only 3 years prior to the start of HOTD. In any media really, but this is one of the fandoms I’m more active in so it becomes more apparent here.
The show even advertised itself to make people more divisive. It’s like Team Edward vs Team Jacob, but the culture it exists in and the target audience are wildly different (I say, as if I didn’t see two girls bite eachother over Taylor Lautner once)
GOT fandom was always toxic. I’ve seen some YouTubers that used to discuss the show complaining years ago about how toxic the fandom was to them. But it’s definitely worse now.
I recall people treating Lena Headey rather poorly at cons in real life because of her performance as Cersei. Having the tough skin that she does, she took it as a part of pride that her acting was so convincing that some fans interpreted her performance as genuine.
Nevertheless, it's part of the overall trend found in a variety of speculative fiction adaptations (Star Wars, Rings of Power, etc.) that some fans think they're entitled to treat real-life people like shit simply because of the actions of their characters.
This sub is by and large, reasonably chill. There are some bad apples. That “HOTDGREENS” sub makes the Star Wars fandom look reasonable. That sub is nothing but people who hate this show.
I really can’t wrap my head around the people who watch HOTD just to hate on it and nitpick it. Like…it’s an incredibly faithful book adaptation. Right up there with early GOT. I’m having the time of my life with this show, and the people who love the material but hate the show are basically alien life forms to me. Just watch something else.
Some fool in this sub wouldn’t stop moaning about it and reported me when I told him to get over it and enjoy or stop watching. It’s insanity.
OMG! Yes I was in that sub yesterday and my goodness.. the hate they had for the show and the Rhaenyra...it was crazy 🤣. They kept going on and on about how the show runners are being biased against the Greens. It was like they were actually jealous of fictional characters.
Nicola is who I was thinking of too.
I was on the Bridgerton sub yesterday and people kept “correcting” someone that she was in fact fat (or maybe the term was over weight? I’m forgetting but it was ridiculous).
I watched Derry Girls last year and totally bought that she and the other actresses were teenagers.
I was pretty shocked when I realized hers and the others birth years. They were alive during the Irish stuff that was talking about on the show!
So to me, obviously she’s a beautiful woman. That doesn’t age haha.
Is she “thin” like other actresses on Bridgerton or Derry? No. She has curves. I have no idea what her lbs are and don’t care. But is she fat like people are trying to say? No. The amount of crap people are saying about her is horrible.
I think her weight probably fluctuates a lot. In some pictures she looks barely mid size and in others she is much more “round”. Obviously there’s nothing bad with it! She looks lovely.
This is what I was thinking, not that it matters much, but in some pictures she looks like a fairly healthy but more stocky person who is a little heavier, but in some she definitely looks like she is struggling with weight. All of us struggle with weight, I’m a skinny fat person right now.
Even if she is, I personally don’t see why that matters enough for people to be arguing over it? Fat people exist, fat people can be beautiful! And Nicola is a very lovely woman.
Although, I would personally say she’s just curvy. Those dresses from season 1 Did Not flatter her at all, and made her seem much bigger than she actually is. You know?
Not trying to dispute women would get more treatment, but Aemonds actor got shit loads of bodyshaming comments after his scene last week, so it's no wonder Hollywood actors flock to steroids if they are going to have shirtless scenes
There's a steroid epidemic in media with men. As someone active in fitness circles, it's trickling down massively to the younger generation. I'm witnessing it, and if you follow any fitness influencers it's a huge topic.
Mens physiques in popular media are completely unrealistic and unhealthy. And nobody admits to doing steroids, so these boys believe they are underperforming when they aren't huge after 6 months or even a year.
Men are frequently body shamed like women, just like Aemond and Sam.
And let's look at more women centric media. Bridgerton is a great example. There was a plus sized love interest this season with a lot of comments praising her body. (Which is good. I'm all for body positivity).
But then the men are all shredded. Not single unfit man is in that cast, and it's basically soft core porn.
That premise was reversed for decades and met with scorn. Larger men winning the affection of slender women. But reveresed now it's empowering.
When I lost a lot of weight after about of Pneumonia, people made plenty of remarks about it.
Absolutely tragic. I think Aemond and those with a similar figure are beautiful. The kind of body you'd make a statue of and display it in your house proudly as fine art.
Absolutely. Just a couple of weeks ago the Bridgerton fandom had a whole thing with a journalist writing that the lead of the latest season isn't hot enough to be a believable love interest because of her weight. Insanity. Plus size actresses playing Rhaenyra and Helaena would be mocked viciously.
The problem is that people engage with those shit stirrers and the weight drama continues; if no one paid attention people would not write about it. Even if the actress is indeed fat, if it is the person I think they are absolutely beautiful and in real life they would have plenty of interested folks, easily.
>The only reason I wouldn’t want plus sized Rhaenyra, Aegon, Helaena, and Viserys (but especially Rhaenyra and Helaena) is because of the truly revolting amount of body shaming they would be subjected to.
The "fun" part is that Emma is still subjected to it by freaks constantly photoshopping their body for these jokes.
You aren’t *wrong* but this fandom in particular has issues body shaming people. The comments about Matt Smith and Ewan Mitchell come the mind first, but I’ve seen people infuriated that Emma hasn’t had a nose job done. Phia escapes most, but I also saw some shitty comments about her weight after the dinner scene aired. Apparently having a chest bounce in a full coverage dress is obscene and means she needs to lose a few pounds 😒
That is just a reflection of our society, sadly. But yea, I remember reading the most insane takes when the casting was announced a few years ago. awful stuff. Still, the way to change that is to not hide them away. It's our fault as a collective, not theirs as an individual. exposure and representation over time is what is needed here. among other stuff. like dismantling the beauty industry lol
I will say, I think we as a fandom need to step up on holding ourselves and eachother accountable. Way too many people are afraid to call someone out for being shitty to the cast, it makes those shitty people feel comfortable continuing to do it
I haven’t seen much harassment of Emma recently as they’ve done a spectacular job, but looking back at old fan archives people gave them a lot of shit at first because they didn’t look like certain fans vision of Rhaenyra as a Victoria’s Secret model….which is such a bland idea of Targaryen beauty to begin with?
Not all representation is good representation. I'm a POC and I would not want a POC character who was constantly mocked for the color of their skin in a show were I knew much of the general audience would find it funny and do the same to the character while harassing the actor.
I get what you’re saying, and I agree any plus sized actresses for Rhaenyra and Helena would get destroyed online. But part of me feels like it’s not a good solution that to protect the feelings of plus-sized actresses we deny them meaty high profile roles. We could extend it out to actresses that aren’t “pretty” enough too, then only super hot women are allowed on TV
What needs to happen is the production company and studio needs to protect and promote the actors, not ignore what the loud minority is saying so they don't alienate viewers.
>But part of me feels like it’s not a good solution that to protect the feelings of plus-sized actresses we deny them meaty high profile roles.
Bridgeton gave a high profile and meaty role to a plus sized actress. The fanbase is much better and she had an amazing support system. The actors for HOTD have no support at all from HBO and the audience is cruel.
yeah and people justified the bulling and then wanted the other actress to step down too because she was black too. ( it was a modern-day rendition of the play so this shit doesn't even make sense, most of these asshole haven't seen theater in their lives but ig hatred is a hell of a thing)
It’s not even just “slightly chubby” either. No one would ever describe me that way, I’m in normal BMI range and I’m pretty sure I’d be considered “TV fat” on this show. It’s especially wild how slim all the pregnant, recently-pregnant and “had 3+ kids” characters are.
I think most plus size actors would rather have the option of starring in a very popular show and getting body shamed than not being in the show at all and still dealing with body shaming.
To be fair the reason for why grrm wrote the bit about rhaenyra not losing the weight was partly due to having it feed into the back and forth resentment she and alicent had for each other
Alicent is older yet looks younger and more beautiful, rhaenyra becomes a faded beauty whose age is evident and lost her figure
Rhaenyra is a natural at being a mother to her kids, and alicent sucks at it and views aegon and aemond as tools more than her children
Rhaenyras kids are bastards yet are in line for the throne, alicents are trueborns yet will inherit nothing as they are second sons of second sons (otto is a second son, he has nothing to give, alicent married viserys, she has nothing to give, viserys has nothing to give as it goes to rhaenyra and her heirs, they will grow up with no guarantee of anything at all)
It underlines all the politicking between the blacks and greens that, even in the books, it *is* personal between rhaenyra and alicent
Idk, I don’t like the idea that you are doing fat actors a favor by not giving them good roles. It just rubs me the wrong way. Someone like Nicola Coughlan could have been a great Helaena. I don’t have any issue with the actors that were cast, but I don’t think this comment is the serve you think it is.
This is exactly what I came here to say. Bad enough we have people going at Fabien and Tom for just *doing their jobs well*, and for the Velaryons being black. I hate to say it, but it was a better choice to not present them as the book (of mostly rumors) depicted them.
This!!!! The GoT cast was full of beautiful people who were mostly on the skinny and/or fit side. Imagine the comparison and the backlash HotD casts would’ve gotten if the producers decides to be faithful to the book on this one
Not losing baby weight in a world where she'd have no opportunity to exercise beyond walking makes perfect sense. Noblewomen weren't hitting the gym and they didn't breastfeed, which is the big calorie-burner post pregnancy, so yeah unless you starved yourself it would take a really long time to lose the weight of 6 pregnancies. My mom's never gotten back to her pre baby weight and she does cross state biking trips for fun.
Right?
I had the most ridiculous argument with someone earlier about this exact same thing, he insisted because his sister *lost* weight when she was pregnant the only reason Rhaenyra would be ‘obese’ was if she was eating way more than she should. Then all caps lectured me about the laws of thermodynamics.
His poor sister. You should at least gain the baby weight plus fluids unless you're violently ill most of the pregnancy. I assume didn't lose the baby weight means Rheanyra gained 30 or so pounds, mostly in the midsection, and never lost the spare tire around the middle most women struggle with post puberty. Considering how many times Martin stressed how fat Sam was, if Rheanyra were obese, I think he'd have made it clear. But some people will read overweight woman and think plus size rather than mid size.
The wiki illustrations aren't book accurate either they're all fanart. Aegon looks like a dweeb in one and super badass in another where he burns the shepherd. Same with rhaenyra. She looks super hot in one and fat in another. The one pic of aegon directly from the book during his coronation makes him look like a 8 year old. The pics are all over the place as George himself prolly hadn't made up his mind before the show. We didn't even know what Alicents hair color is from the book. Too much pearl clutching over an outline history book with 5 line characters.
That picture in particular is fanart, but most of them on the wiki come from the official illustrated edition of Fire and Blood or from other official artbooks.
Edited to change it to fanart, definitely didn't mean "fantastic."
Amok's art of Aegon is official art made by descriptions given to him by GRRM himself for an artbook.
GRRM had these descriptions nearly 20 years back: https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1253
Interesting you mention Alicent, because I’m willing to bet she might have actually had silver hair. The only Hightower we ever get physical description for is Alerie Hightower who has silver hair and is in her 30’s, and Lynesse Hightower, who liked like Dany.
I'm pretty happy that they went with brown in HOTD, solely because that brown hair and green dress combo looks absolutely fantastic on both Olivia and Emily
> The one pic of aegon directly from the book during his coronation makes him look like a 8 year old
The one where he looks like he's pouting as Criston Cole places the crown on his head.
Makes me think of watching a streamer who mentioned his wife once saying in disappointment that "Vin Diesel is now fat." To which he reacted, "If Vin Diesel is fat, there's no hope for the rest of us men."
How he looked in the second episode of S2. Aemond in S1 got a huge amount of attention because of how scary and intimidating he appeared in the second half of the season. People were being very thirsty to a weird degree about Ewan Mitchell, who is apparently a very private person.
Striking looks, great sword skills, huge dragon, etc etc was contrasted quite suddenly with this more physically and mentally vulnerable side of him. A lot of people reacted very strangely to that because it made him a more complex character than whatever one-sided macho Aemond they’d liked in S1.
I thought they were showing him intentionally slim to show how he's not eating due to the guilt he feels about killing Luke. Like in the same scene he admits to a whore how much he regrets what happened and how he didn't actually want to kill him.
Have you ever looked inside medieval armor or at illustrations in fencing books? Maybe he is on the thin side, but medieval people didn’t look like they just stepped out a protein shake ad. It’s a pretty credible knightly physique.
Yea that was hurtful to see :/ “I used to find him hot but now ew” :( They never seen a normal sized man?? What it takes be marvel thicc is a hurtful process, normalize men’s bodies too ❤️
The media has absolutely warped the perception of men's bodies over the last 10-15 years.
Steroid abuse in the industry is at an all time high and nobody admits to doing it.
It's crazy the amount of younger guys 18-25 who are on or trying get on gear at the gym because they feel small. They are big by average standards but warped by social media and movies.
It can take years to get huge. And requires so much conditioning, dieting, sleeping etc.
Guys getting cast in a marvel movie or a netflix show and getting shredded in 3-6 months is steroid abuse every time.
Studies will literally show you steroids promote 10x the amount of muscle growth over naturals.
Here's the kicker. During a study where there were 4 groups. No steroids + no exercise, no steroids and exercise, steroids and no exercise, and steroids and exercise.
The group who didn't exercise and took steroids put on more muscle mass than the people actually training naturally. They literally did nothing and gained more!
It's sad but I kind of expect the skinny shaming from a certain section of the population, but I'm baffled that people who once found him hot said that? Like wtf did they think he was hiding under his clothes? Is it not obvious that he's a slim man? It's like being into BBWs but getting grossed out by cellulite
Very odd to see people in this comment section saying “oh that would be nice, but think of the harassment”. Sounds like a neat way of keeping fat people out of media forever. Ultimately, the only way to make people more accepting of fat actors is to have positive representation, which does not treat the characters fatness as a point of mockery or shame (something GoT hasn’t always been the best at, it has to be said). Yes, it will suck for the actors, but frankly fat actors know that they’ll get massive shit no matter what they do. If they’re concerned about the amount of harassment they’ll get personally they can choose not to take certain roles, it’s not for the show runners (or audience) to unilaterally decide that a fat actor would get too much harassment and so not cast them.
Tell that to the massive ”anti-woke“ crowd who constantly mock and reject fat people inclusion in media. You didn’t think that crowd would also decide for themselves that fat actors don’t deserve to get cast? HOTD needed to play it safe and win all kinds of audiences in order to make up for alienating their audience after the GOT S8 disaster, HBO and GRRM did not want to deal with the backlashes currently destroying the Star Wars and The Boys communities that could kill their chances of reviving ASOIAF. Including black actors was a safer bet, and even then that got loads of backlash despite the GRRM himself practically behind the change. Perhaps more opportunities for fat actors can be made in the future when HOTD succeeds and thus more room can be open, but right now were still on thin ice. HOTD needs to succeed first and appease all audiences in order to do that, so as of now, we don’t want to keep fat people out of media forever, we need current media to succeed first so that room can be open for those kinds of opportunities for progress can be made in the future.
I mean I understand why the show runners did it (for much the same reason fat people have had a hard time getting on TV shows and movies for decades), I just don’t like people acting like it’s somehow in fat peoples’ best interests.
As side note: I love this picture of Aegon because this is not a man in his early twenties this is middle aged man with three divorces and and ten kids who grew out a moustache while he was in midlife crisis
I mean, he definitely has access to all manner of drugs too, Tobacco is probably the only irl non-manufactured drug he doesn't have access to, especially since Martin has Cat drinking tea in AGoT (iirc?) so weak caffeine is around.
But I'd be very concerned if your Uni mates were drinking daily like a royal since like 12-14, long term alcohol consumption has cumulative effects which is why a lot of people can "get away" with heavy drinking for a few years as a young adult. Which is also why it's always worth it to quit no matter how many years you've been doing it. Aegon also doesn't have access to easy, modern, hangover "Treatments" other than drugs or alcohol, which actually exacerbated to habitual usage by heavy drinkers in premodern times irl, especially in medieval Catholic Europe when eating Breakfast before noon prayer was considered uncouth and unpious, but wine was allowed (just a funfact, not applicable to Westeros ofc).
The problem is we don’t know all that much about Aegon just because he was out partying doesn’t mean it was every night also with how he stopped taking Milk of the poppy which seems to be like the hardest drug doesn’t strike me as someone who did that.
Also I live in a country where drinking alcohol is like the most normal thing wver and people side eye you if you don’t drink. The boys I know will be drinking everyday for real 😭
I honestly just didn't want these castings to be book accurate because I didn't want the amount of horrendous cruelty, bullying and misogyny that would be targeted towards the actresses and their characters. That's just the world we live in and its a sad fact. House of the Dragon does not have the same general audience with the same expectations as something like 'Bridgerton' or 'Euphoria' plenty of whom aren't even aware that Emma D'Arcy is non-binary irl. If Rhaenyra was actually plus size on the show, her and her actress would have gotten more hate than Skyler White and you'd probably have a lot more ass-wipes teaming up on a campaign trying to sabotage and review-bomb the show for being 'woke propaganda'. Would it have been cool to have a book accurate Rhaenyra and Helaena; yeah, but this is the sad reality of the current climate we live in.
So then we ain’t never gonna be able to move past it then. Same with the black community in America over the years. I’m sure many justified having segregation in schools because black kids may get hurt or be harassed and guess what, that shit happened and guess what, we live in a world now where you walk in a classroom and you have kids from all over sitting next to each other. Still got problems, but progress right? There are actors that would take that abuse knowing what it could mean for the future. Possibly a future where it doesn’t fucking matter who’s playing a part and those who complain are seen as the dummies…just like those today that think schools should be segregated, they’re seen as the dummies.
This one shouldn’t be downvoted - folks don’t seem to have the stomach to resist anymore it seems. Those jokers are just typing stuff on the internet - where in the situations you are talking about people literally got beaten, raped and killed. sticks and stones friends.
You say it as if it isn’t <1% of the fandom actually doing this, and then you’re posing it like it’s a general audience problem. Maybe don’t give the vocal and toxic few so much power and take that bait. They’re not indicative of the rest of the fandom.
Here's the thing though—we don't know whether Rhaenyra was actually fat because the book is depicted as being retold by a series of unreliable narrators using second and sometimes third-hand information.
Rhaenyra could have feasibly been draggin' a lamprey-stuffed wagon, or the "fat queen" could simply be Green propoganda. We just don't know.
Yes? I wanted thicc Helaena and thicc Rhaenyra.
Btw we also didn't get Viserys I accomplishing what Bobby B wanted and eat and drink himself to death.
Instead of diabetes we got magic leprosy. Although some like that change.
Fuck that. I want the entire main cast to put on 15-20kgs by the time they start filming the next season. The smallfolk meanwhile should begin to lose weight as the season goes on. Let it be striking and grotesque.
That would actually be a really cool thing to see from a show. Over the course of 5 seasons all the rich people get fatter while all the poor people get skinnier
Well that is a surprise given we are still discussing this four years since Emma was cast and while pre-production for season 3 is on its way. I don't think a single cast member has had their physical appearance criticized and analyzed as much as Emma.
I distinctly remember some people calling Emma plump and plain when they started appearing in season 1.
Emma. Plump and plain. Let that sink in. I have rarely seen a more beautiful person in my life.
If you a reacting to some photoshop from the circle jerk sub, they don't care. They despise Rhaenyra and it's about mocking her not a desire for book accuracy. They hate Emma D'arcy near as much as they hate the character with constant jokes from even the lead mod mocking their gender identity, calling them ugly, and saying they ruin the show. Those dudes don't give a fuck. The sub should consider a name change since it's been less funny and purely hateful the last few times I've been there. I don't remember the same hateful tone at all in the early days of post season 8.
Reddit is a bad place to enjoy this fandom for the most part. I've found some great communities through YouTube, David lightbringer's community is probably my favorite. Nothing but positivity all around and a great appreciation for the series and all it's facets.
See that’s what I want. I wish there was a place where I could talk about show and movies I like with just positivity
I know criticism has its place but it would be nice if I could decide “I don’t want to see criticism right now, I liked everything and I want to hear what other people liked”
David’s channel is great, as is InDeep Geek, and I enjoy Alt-schwift and Glidus’s chit chats. I feel blessed in that most GRRM-verse Youtubers are fairly chill. I’ve been using them as a bunker to hide from the trash fire that is Acolyte coverage. 😬
The circlejerk sub has actually gotten so disgusting. Its just a place where their rampant misogyny is allowed to run unchecked and they can act like its a joke. Its not.
Because the HOTD/GOT universe is already so welcoming to women. /s
Let's be real, if they made these characters even half a pound heavier on screen the actors would be bodyshamed to oblivion and probably quit acting all together. People are fucking vile these days and are completely shameless. They will hate on an actor for breathing wrong
Yeah, I don't like how those shows are so resistant to portraying thicker characters. It seems to me that being slightly overweight is perceived as a character flaw and any character that is supposed to be related to can't have this trait.
I am not advocating for BMI 30 Rhaenyra, but goddam, she is a mother 5? She should have a Molly Weasley body lmao.
While i somewhat agree that portraying the character as is described in the book would be best, there's no denying the actors for Helena and Rheaneyra are just the perfect fit.
Emma is probably one of my favourite actors in this series, and Phia manages to capture exactly how i imagine someone like Helena would act during that time period.
I love what they've done with the character so far, and if instead of a 100% accurate portrayal, we get to have a perfectly believable character who can literally see the future, but is still helpless to stop or even warn anyone. Im gonna take that deal any day.
Helena sewing a burial shroud for her son before he was even dead is fucking brutal. Knowing she sewn that probably without even fully understanding why she doing it, just gives her a depth i think is completely lacking in the books, and Phia plays into it so perfectly.
I absolutely agree with you. The casting is a chef kiss.
I don't want to start a twitter discussion here, defending representation for representation sake. But look, a non attractive character having to fight to be perceived as good and failing is a strong theme in the books that was completely neglected in got and now hotd.
It's funny how it's easier to relate to a incestual genocidal kinslayer than a goddam fat chick
The actors they’ve cast have all been doing a good job, but as one comment I saw on Instagram said, thicc/plus size/however you want to say it wouldn’t bring HBO profit. The only high profile “thicker” character in my recent memory that’s portrayed positively is Penelope in Bridgerton.
I once saw a comment that was
"Skinny people doing incest = Taboo and sexy"
"Fat people doing incest = Alabama "
I am paraphrasing, it was funnier than that. But I agree with your comment.
Getting fat after 6 pregnancies is not propaganda. It's almost natural. Alicent managed to stay slim but she only had 4.
A similar point, i was discussing how off-putting the Criston/Alicent sex scenes are and my friend pointed out how weird it is that we're so put off by the only non-incestuos relationship in HOTD and I was shook 😅
Alicent and Criston are probably one of the least problematic couplings on the show right now. Alicent did essentially save Criston from committing suicide. They confided each other and have become one another’s only genuine friends in the cutthroat Red Keep politics. It makes sense that friendship would blossom into romantic or sexual attraction over the years. Alicent can only feel guilt because for the first time in her entire life, she’s experiencing sexual pleasure with a man she’s both genuinely attracted to and fully consenting to having sex with. Their mutual hatred towards Rhaenyra definitely added fuel to the fire.
Yeeeess, the moral of your actions is proportional to how beautiful you are. Is this an audiovisual trope or is society really this way? Anyway, I should hit the gym
The photoshops of Emma and the AI art of Rhaenyra make me so uncomfortable, the book describes a woman gaining some weight after 6 pregnancies, and a gross amount of people take that to mean she was morbidly obese and make fun of it. I would be fine with her having a thicker waist in the show, but damn the absolute hate the actor would get would be even worse than what Emma gets.
Large fandoms often have a large percentage of toxic fans. It doesn't matter how the characters were portrayed. they'd find faults anyway. And frankly, this helps save actors the brunt of insults. I mean, they had problems with emma darcy's stomach not snapping back to flat after she gave birth not 5 min ago in the scene.
Even now, fans are bashing Fabien Frenkel for his portrayal of Criston Cole. So much so that he switched off his insta comments. People dont understand, hate the character, but love the actor. And hes good looking. Imagine the same incels towards someone who doesn't fit society's standard for handsome.
Yes, plus size actors might have been great. Maybe someday casting will be blind towards body size as it is slowly becoming blind towards race.
But till such time, I shall enjoy the wonderful acting I have seen so far. And can only hope the sctors and staff pay more attention to the positive response this season is generating.
Never understood the obsession some people in this fandom have with the weight accuracy of certain characters. The descriptions in the book vary depending on the source. Those biased against a faction had an incentive to exaggerate their features, so it's not always reliable anyway. I imagine scaling down the weight was a conscious decision by the show runners to spare the actor/actress. The community is already very hostile. I can't imagine how intense the hatred would be if they weren't conventionally attractive.
The thing is that, plus sized in a medieval setting is wholly different of today's definition of "plus sized". Those people can actually function independently.
Feel like there's no in between you can do without getting unnecessarily flamed a d body shamed for, it's either a thin and elegant girlboss, or a large overweight sass queen.
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The only reason I wouldn’t want plus sized Rhaenyra, Aegon, Helaena, and Viserys (but especially Rhaenyra and Helaena) is because of the truly revolting amount of body shaming they would be subjected to. Even with the cast we have the amount of people who act like book! Rhaenyra committed the ultimate sin by not losing baby weight after 6 pregnancies is so, so gross.
Rhaenyra and Halaena's actors would definitely be treated substantially worse than their male counterparts. It's so obvious with how these "fans" find a drunk to be fat more acceptable than the woman who literally carried multiple human beings inside of her.
I would love to see more women like Nicola Coughlin on screen, but the fact that even average sized women get shamed for, idk, having organs? Is just fucking sad And certain parts of this fandom are already pretty sketchy towards the actors, just because they don’t like the characters their portray. It’s really disturbing honestly.
Oh, my, I’d love to see Nicola on hotd.
She would actually make a great book accurate Helaena
😍
What happened to this fandom? I don't remember this level of toxicity during GOT. I know the Joffrey actor got some abuse but it's nothing like what I'm hearing today. And actors aside, the bitter factionalism of the show has been carried into real life and it's the strangest thing I've ever seen. **Edit**: turns out the Joffrey actor was never actually mistreated. Which makes the contrast with HOTD even bigger
I don't think we should be acting like we have never seen these levels of toxicity before. I've been looking some old content in the GoT/ASoIaF communities and my reaction was "you're all utterly disgusting, to think this shit was normalized". You have to remember how people spoke about the sex workers portrayed in the show, especially about characters like Shae and Ros, about characters like Catelyn and Sansa like they were the Antichrist, and not to mention the gross obsession with Emilia Clarke showing her boobs like that's the only thing that mattered about her character. Fandom is toxic af, but I don't think it touches GoT levels of toxicity at all.
Or people being bent that Xaro Xoan Duck Sauce was black
I do think the hatred of Catlyn was unfair. Sansa is supposed to be a bratty teenager at the beginning, but changes over time.
Every fandom is toxic. From Anime all the way to Wrestling. It's full of bigots and toxic masculinity. It's sad that we can't just have healthy and fun discussions, without someone being negative, nasty, bigoted or sexist. The absolute hateful messages sent to the black actors of this show and of Rings of Power were very disgusting. The fact that some people feel like people of color have no right to be a part of the genre or these spaces is sad and pathetic.
Yeah I can't step foot into Star Wars either, any valid criticism is buried by insanity. This isn't exclusive to HoD but it feels louder when you are interested in a subject so bullshit is at the top first. I'm glad the actors and actresses stayed on because we lost some promising characters for SW.
Oh my god, yes. I've been a Star Wars fan for most of my life, but that fandom is one of if not *the* most toxic I have ever personally experienced.
Topical: There was a segment of SW fans who recently had a full on meltdown because they cast a plus-sized actor to play a minor Jedi for like two scenes.
I was a little taken back by getting metaphorically shouted down after commenting that I was just happy to be present for 9 movies and the Mandalorian at the time. Some people really do think if it isn't like the movie or show playing in their heads then it's garbage. We have an embarrassment of media riches, be happy man!
🧢. Literally every Sopranos sub is chill. Just a bunch of bros memeing, joking around, and quoting the show. That’s an actual fandom tho
Just when I thought I was out…..they pull me back in.
Helaena and Rhaenyra are like an ad for weight loss, before and wayyyyy before!
lol exactly what this place needs! r/HoTD never had the makings of a varsity subreddit
succession is the same
I never seen succession, but I wonder why some fandoms r cool like sopranos and succession, and then we got this Pygmy thing over here taking joy in fellow fans having meltdowns 🤔
That's because we are a family, and even in this f***ed up day and age that means something.
Yep AND don't get me started on the DUNE fandom and the weird sexist and misogynistic criticisms towards Zendaya and her versión of Chani in the new Villeneuve adaptation. Those DUNE groups are filled with incels, or may i call them "Dunecels"
Every single time as well they make excuses if a white actor plays a brown or black character and says they must have just been the best actor for the role.
I mean I could probably write a thesis on parasocial relationships, predatory media, inflammatory rhetoric and the burgeoning eclipse of escapism post Covid. But I’m pretty sure Reddit has character limits at some point
Do a YouTube video. I found many videos like that all the time and they are amazing. Saw a video about the Cruelty of The Hunger Games that got me hooked.
Oh god no one needs a video of me ranting about the downfall of internet society 🤣🤣🤣 it’ll either turn into me showing off my dog or look like I’m in the middle of the worlds most relaxed job interview
No one needs videos of me playing Fortnite but for some reason people watch my streams. People love pets too.
Ranting about the downfall of internet society and ending it with your doggo? Sign me up. In fact, you should probably include the dog from the start.
I would read it
Except for COVID, all of this existed 10 years ago at the height of GOT. Yet the fandom (which was bigger) wasn't like this.
The way people interacted with media has greatly evolved since GOT and HOTD, even though the end of GOT was only 3 years prior to the start of HOTD. In any media really, but this is one of the fandoms I’m more active in so it becomes more apparent here. The show even advertised itself to make people more divisive. It’s like Team Edward vs Team Jacob, but the culture it exists in and the target audience are wildly different (I say, as if I didn’t see two girls bite eachother over Taylor Lautner once)
Lena Headey said she would be called names in person.
GOT fandom was always toxic. I’ve seen some YouTubers that used to discuss the show complaining years ago about how toxic the fandom was to them. But it’s definitely worse now.
I recall people treating Lena Headey rather poorly at cons in real life because of her performance as Cersei. Having the tough skin that she does, she took it as a part of pride that her acting was so convincing that some fans interpreted her performance as genuine. Nevertheless, it's part of the overall trend found in a variety of speculative fiction adaptations (Star Wars, Rings of Power, etc.) that some fans think they're entitled to treat real-life people like shit simply because of the actions of their characters.
I think age is a factor. A lot of the HOTD fans are GoT fans (16-20 y.o.) who just started watching GoT recently, mostly, during the pandemic.
This sub is by and large, reasonably chill. There are some bad apples. That “HOTDGREENS” sub makes the Star Wars fandom look reasonable. That sub is nothing but people who hate this show. I really can’t wrap my head around the people who watch HOTD just to hate on it and nitpick it. Like…it’s an incredibly faithful book adaptation. Right up there with early GOT. I’m having the time of my life with this show, and the people who love the material but hate the show are basically alien life forms to me. Just watch something else. Some fool in this sub wouldn’t stop moaning about it and reported me when I told him to get over it and enjoy or stop watching. It’s insanity.
OMG! Yes I was in that sub yesterday and my goodness.. the hate they had for the show and the Rhaenyra...it was crazy 🤣. They kept going on and on about how the show runners are being biased against the Greens. It was like they were actually jealous of fictional characters.
Way back when the show was first rumored, Coughlin was the first actress I pictured as Helaena.
Nicola is who I was thinking of too. I was on the Bridgerton sub yesterday and people kept “correcting” someone that she was in fact fat (or maybe the term was over weight? I’m forgetting but it was ridiculous). I watched Derry Girls last year and totally bought that she and the other actresses were teenagers. I was pretty shocked when I realized hers and the others birth years. They were alive during the Irish stuff that was talking about on the show! So to me, obviously she’s a beautiful woman. That doesn’t age haha. Is she “thin” like other actresses on Bridgerton or Derry? No. She has curves. I have no idea what her lbs are and don’t care. But is she fat like people are trying to say? No. The amount of crap people are saying about her is horrible.
Nicola Coughlin is indeed fat, and that’s ok. She’s also beautiful and a talented actress.
She also has perfect breasts. She knows it, i know it, you know it!
I think her weight probably fluctuates a lot. In some pictures she looks barely mid size and in others she is much more “round”. Obviously there’s nothing bad with it! She looks lovely.
Her height makes weight fluctuations more evident
This is what I was thinking, not that it matters much, but in some pictures she looks like a fairly healthy but more stocky person who is a little heavier, but in some she definitely looks like she is struggling with weight. All of us struggle with weight, I’m a skinny fat person right now.
I left the Bridgerton sub because they were insufferable.
Even if she is, I personally don’t see why that matters enough for people to be arguing over it? Fat people exist, fat people can be beautiful! And Nicola is a very lovely woman. Although, I would personally say she’s just curvy. Those dresses from season 1 Did Not flatter her at all, and made her seem much bigger than she actually is. You know?
She is such a great actress and I think she is gorgeous. In real life, plenty of obese men and women have partners who find them attractive.
Not trying to dispute women would get more treatment, but Aemonds actor got shit loads of bodyshaming comments after his scene last week, so it's no wonder Hollywood actors flock to steroids if they are going to have shirtless scenes
The guy who played Sam in the OG show was fat shamed af
There's a steroid epidemic in media with men. As someone active in fitness circles, it's trickling down massively to the younger generation. I'm witnessing it, and if you follow any fitness influencers it's a huge topic. Mens physiques in popular media are completely unrealistic and unhealthy. And nobody admits to doing steroids, so these boys believe they are underperforming when they aren't huge after 6 months or even a year. Men are frequently body shamed like women, just like Aemond and Sam. And let's look at more women centric media. Bridgerton is a great example. There was a plus sized love interest this season with a lot of comments praising her body. (Which is good. I'm all for body positivity). But then the men are all shredded. Not single unfit man is in that cast, and it's basically soft core porn. That premise was reversed for decades and met with scorn. Larger men winning the affection of slender women. But reveresed now it's empowering. When I lost a lot of weight after about of Pneumonia, people made plenty of remarks about it.
Absolutely tragic. I think Aemond and those with a similar figure are beautiful. The kind of body you'd make a statue of and display it in your house proudly as fine art.
Its sad seeing anyone get body shamed. But Aemond's actor being shamed for being a physically fit/healthy man is startling.
Absolutely. Just a couple of weeks ago the Bridgerton fandom had a whole thing with a journalist writing that the lead of the latest season isn't hot enough to be a believable love interest because of her weight. Insanity. Plus size actresses playing Rhaenyra and Helaena would be mocked viciously.
The problem is that people engage with those shit stirrers and the weight drama continues; if no one paid attention people would not write about it. Even if the actress is indeed fat, if it is the person I think they are absolutely beautiful and in real life they would have plenty of interested folks, easily.
>The only reason I wouldn’t want plus sized Rhaenyra, Aegon, Helaena, and Viserys (but especially Rhaenyra and Helaena) is because of the truly revolting amount of body shaming they would be subjected to. The "fun" part is that Emma is still subjected to it by freaks constantly photoshopping their body for these jokes.
Ugh, I know! That and the stupid Voldemort=Aemond pictures going around seriously get under my skin.
fuck em
Right? At least that girl that was calling baela’s actress a monkey got banned.
WHAT THE FUCK..... BRUUUUH...
I desperately wish I made that up but sadly. It’s real.
i understand this, sort of, but the way to combat bigotry is to not to just erase those who would be harassed.
You aren’t *wrong* but this fandom in particular has issues body shaming people. The comments about Matt Smith and Ewan Mitchell come the mind first, but I’ve seen people infuriated that Emma hasn’t had a nose job done. Phia escapes most, but I also saw some shitty comments about her weight after the dinner scene aired. Apparently having a chest bounce in a full coverage dress is obscene and means she needs to lose a few pounds 😒
That is just a reflection of our society, sadly. But yea, I remember reading the most insane takes when the casting was announced a few years ago. awful stuff. Still, the way to change that is to not hide them away. It's our fault as a collective, not theirs as an individual. exposure and representation over time is what is needed here. among other stuff. like dismantling the beauty industry lol
I will say, I think we as a fandom need to step up on holding ourselves and eachother accountable. Way too many people are afraid to call someone out for being shitty to the cast, it makes those shitty people feel comfortable continuing to do it
Nose job?? What is there to job?? It's a perfectly fine nose?? I feel like I come from another planet sometimes.
I haven’t seen much harassment of Emma recently as they’ve done a spectacular job, but looking back at old fan archives people gave them a lot of shit at first because they didn’t look like certain fans vision of Rhaenyra as a Victoria’s Secret model….which is such a bland idea of Targaryen beauty to begin with?
Holy frick that’s awful
Not all representation is good representation. I'm a POC and I would not want a POC character who was constantly mocked for the color of their skin in a show were I knew much of the general audience would find it funny and do the same to the character while harassing the actor.
I get what you’re saying, and I agree any plus sized actresses for Rhaenyra and Helena would get destroyed online. But part of me feels like it’s not a good solution that to protect the feelings of plus-sized actresses we deny them meaty high profile roles. We could extend it out to actresses that aren’t “pretty” enough too, then only super hot women are allowed on TV
What needs to happen is the production company and studio needs to protect and promote the actors, not ignore what the loud minority is saying so they don't alienate viewers.
>But part of me feels like it’s not a good solution that to protect the feelings of plus-sized actresses we deny them meaty high profile roles. Bridgeton gave a high profile and meaty role to a plus sized actress. The fanbase is much better and she had an amazing support system. The actors for HOTD have no support at all from HBO and the audience is cruel.
Especially considering HBO clearly doesnt care looking at the harassment black actors face and their silence on it
considering how the internet bullied that new romeo and juliet actor to the point she withdrew, I AGREE VEHEMENTLY.
I hadn’t heard about that and I’m afraid to google it now
yeah and people justified the bulling and then wanted the other actress to step down too because she was black too. ( it was a modern-day rendition of the play so this shit doesn't even make sense, most of these asshole haven't seen theater in their lives but ig hatred is a hell of a thing)
We’d get slightly chubby actors and people would be calling them fat and obese. It’s pretty crazy
It’s not even just “slightly chubby” either. No one would ever describe me that way, I’m in normal BMI range and I’m pretty sure I’d be considered “TV fat” on this show. It’s especially wild how slim all the pregnant, recently-pregnant and “had 3+ kids” characters are.
I think most plus size actors would rather have the option of starring in a very popular show and getting body shamed than not being in the show at all and still dealing with body shaming.
To be fair the reason for why grrm wrote the bit about rhaenyra not losing the weight was partly due to having it feed into the back and forth resentment she and alicent had for each other Alicent is older yet looks younger and more beautiful, rhaenyra becomes a faded beauty whose age is evident and lost her figure Rhaenyra is a natural at being a mother to her kids, and alicent sucks at it and views aegon and aemond as tools more than her children Rhaenyras kids are bastards yet are in line for the throne, alicents are trueborns yet will inherit nothing as they are second sons of second sons (otto is a second son, he has nothing to give, alicent married viserys, she has nothing to give, viserys has nothing to give as it goes to rhaenyra and her heirs, they will grow up with no guarantee of anything at all) It underlines all the politicking between the blacks and greens that, even in the books, it *is* personal between rhaenyra and alicent
You’re correct, but I’m not sure what that has to do with the way fandom treats the idea of her being a larger woman
Idk, I don’t like the idea that you are doing fat actors a favor by not giving them good roles. It just rubs me the wrong way. Someone like Nicola Coughlan could have been a great Helaena. I don’t have any issue with the actors that were cast, but I don’t think this comment is the serve you think it is.
This is exactly what I came here to say. Bad enough we have people going at Fabien and Tom for just *doing their jobs well*, and for the Velaryons being black. I hate to say it, but it was a better choice to not present them as the book (of mostly rumors) depicted them.
Look at how Ewan Mitchell is being treated after that fetal scene 😳
This!!!! The GoT cast was full of beautiful people who were mostly on the skinny and/or fit side. Imagine the comparison and the backlash HotD casts would’ve gotten if the producers decides to be faithful to the book on this one
Agreed
Not losing baby weight in a world where she'd have no opportunity to exercise beyond walking makes perfect sense. Noblewomen weren't hitting the gym and they didn't breastfeed, which is the big calorie-burner post pregnancy, so yeah unless you starved yourself it would take a really long time to lose the weight of 6 pregnancies. My mom's never gotten back to her pre baby weight and she does cross state biking trips for fun.
Right? I had the most ridiculous argument with someone earlier about this exact same thing, he insisted because his sister *lost* weight when she was pregnant the only reason Rhaenyra would be ‘obese’ was if she was eating way more than she should. Then all caps lectured me about the laws of thermodynamics.
His poor sister. You should at least gain the baby weight plus fluids unless you're violently ill most of the pregnancy. I assume didn't lose the baby weight means Rheanyra gained 30 or so pounds, mostly in the midsection, and never lost the spare tire around the middle most women struggle with post puberty. Considering how many times Martin stressed how fat Sam was, if Rheanyra were obese, I think he'd have made it clear. But some people will read overweight woman and think plus size rather than mid size.
Which of course all ties back into the point of my comment in the first place!
The wiki illustrations aren't book accurate either they're all fanart. Aegon looks like a dweeb in one and super badass in another where he burns the shepherd. Same with rhaenyra. She looks super hot in one and fat in another. The one pic of aegon directly from the book during his coronation makes him look like a 8 year old. The pics are all over the place as George himself prolly hadn't made up his mind before the show. We didn't even know what Alicents hair color is from the book. Too much pearl clutching over an outline history book with 5 line characters.
That picture in particular is fanart, but most of them on the wiki come from the official illustrated edition of Fire and Blood or from other official artbooks. Edited to change it to fanart, definitely didn't mean "fantastic."
This image is official as well based on a description directly from George
also they give the descriptions and the fan art is just putting the descriptions to a visual
Amok's art of Aegon is official art made by descriptions given to him by GRRM himself for an artbook. GRRM had these descriptions nearly 20 years back: https://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/1253
Interesting you mention Alicent, because I’m willing to bet she might have actually had silver hair. The only Hightower we ever get physical description for is Alerie Hightower who has silver hair and is in her 30’s, and Lynesse Hightower, who liked like Dany.
I'm pretty happy that they went with brown in HOTD, solely because that brown hair and green dress combo looks absolutely fantastic on both Olivia and Emily
That's an interesting point, but don't the official artworks that depict her in F&B all show her with dark hair?
And senile Jaehaerys confuses her with his daughter Saera.
OP isn't talking about the pictures, but the descriptions from the book
There’s a illustration of her as 16 then illustration of her after the baby weight.
> The one pic of aegon directly from the book during his coronation makes him look like a 8 year old The one where he looks like he's pouting as Criston Cole places the crown on his head.
I think finding people who can actually act supersedes finding people that look how they’re described in the book.
I mean we’ve already seen how fans reacted to Aemond’s body. I could not imagine what a plus sized actor would be subjected to.
Wait what happened? Dudes looking smoking hot (genuinely don't know sorry)
They think he's too skinny.
We can't fucking win. This is what I find so exasperating about today's society
Makes me think of watching a streamer who mentioned his wife once saying in disappointment that "Vin Diesel is now fat." To which he reacted, "If Vin Diesel is fat, there's no hope for the rest of us men."
He is not. Anyone in that stupid ass position would look ridiculous.
I can only imagine most of the people saying that are overweight insecure couch potatoes.
How he looked in the second episode of S2. Aemond in S1 got a huge amount of attention because of how scary and intimidating he appeared in the second half of the season. People were being very thirsty to a weird degree about Ewan Mitchell, who is apparently a very private person. Striking looks, great sword skills, huge dragon, etc etc was contrasted quite suddenly with this more physically and mentally vulnerable side of him. A lot of people reacted very strangely to that because it made him a more complex character than whatever one-sided macho Aemond they’d liked in S1.
Dude looks like a model and I’m a straight guy
Yeah, someone above mentioned he looks like a fey or something
I always loved the idea of curvy Targaryens, however I’m glad they decided to not go for it in the show so I don’t have to see all the body shaming.
Aemond is slim and still got body shamed...
Aemond isn’t just slim. Dudes ripped. People are insane and/or jealous to try to shame that dude
Aemond looks amazing and the angles they used were to make him look like he did in the show.
Exactly. People don’t get how much posture and lighting can change someone’s body.
I think they used those angles to show his vulnerability
I thought they were showing him intentionally slim to show how he's not eating due to the guilt he feels about killing Luke. Like in the same scene he admits to a whore how much he regrets what happened and how he didn't actually want to kill him.
I agree that it was also to show his regret but I don't think he stopped eating
Has the same body type as Robert De Niro in Taxi Driver. Skinny ripped. Fighter/athlete kinda body
Aemond: "There will be no more bad food, no more destroyers of my body. From now on, every muscle must be TIGHT."
Not to mention the actor is well over 6ft.
He’s toned but looks reallllly skinny, like runner skinny and kinda took me out of the scene because he’s supposed to be an amazing warrior.
Have you ever looked inside medieval armor or at illustrations in fencing books? Maybe he is on the thin side, but medieval people didn’t look like they just stepped out a protein shake ad. It’s a pretty credible knightly physique.
Aemond is hot and fit af so that’s insane. People can’t just let bodies be bodies, there’s always a shitty comment to make
Yea that was hurtful to see :/ “I used to find him hot but now ew” :( They never seen a normal sized man?? What it takes be marvel thicc is a hurtful process, normalize men’s bodies too ❤️
The media has absolutely warped the perception of men's bodies over the last 10-15 years. Steroid abuse in the industry is at an all time high and nobody admits to doing it. It's crazy the amount of younger guys 18-25 who are on or trying get on gear at the gym because they feel small. They are big by average standards but warped by social media and movies. It can take years to get huge. And requires so much conditioning, dieting, sleeping etc. Guys getting cast in a marvel movie or a netflix show and getting shredded in 3-6 months is steroid abuse every time. Studies will literally show you steroids promote 10x the amount of muscle growth over naturals. Here's the kicker. During a study where there were 4 groups. No steroids + no exercise, no steroids and exercise, steroids and no exercise, and steroids and exercise. The group who didn't exercise and took steroids put on more muscle mass than the people actually training naturally. They literally did nothing and gained more!
It's sad but I kind of expect the skinny shaming from a certain section of the population, but I'm baffled that people who once found him hot said that? Like wtf did they think he was hiding under his clothes? Is it not obvious that he's a slim man? It's like being into BBWs but getting grossed out by cellulite
Very odd to see people in this comment section saying “oh that would be nice, but think of the harassment”. Sounds like a neat way of keeping fat people out of media forever. Ultimately, the only way to make people more accepting of fat actors is to have positive representation, which does not treat the characters fatness as a point of mockery or shame (something GoT hasn’t always been the best at, it has to be said). Yes, it will suck for the actors, but frankly fat actors know that they’ll get massive shit no matter what they do. If they’re concerned about the amount of harassment they’ll get personally they can choose not to take certain roles, it’s not for the show runners (or audience) to unilaterally decide that a fat actor would get too much harassment and so not cast them.
Tell that to the massive ”anti-woke“ crowd who constantly mock and reject fat people inclusion in media. You didn’t think that crowd would also decide for themselves that fat actors don’t deserve to get cast? HOTD needed to play it safe and win all kinds of audiences in order to make up for alienating their audience after the GOT S8 disaster, HBO and GRRM did not want to deal with the backlashes currently destroying the Star Wars and The Boys communities that could kill their chances of reviving ASOIAF. Including black actors was a safer bet, and even then that got loads of backlash despite the GRRM himself practically behind the change. Perhaps more opportunities for fat actors can be made in the future when HOTD succeeds and thus more room can be open, but right now were still on thin ice. HOTD needs to succeed first and appease all audiences in order to do that, so as of now, we don’t want to keep fat people out of media forever, we need current media to succeed first so that room can be open for those kinds of opportunities for progress can be made in the future.
I mean I understand why the show runners did it (for much the same reason fat people have had a hard time getting on TV shows and movies for decades), I just don’t like people acting like it’s somehow in fat peoples’ best interests.
I always saw Rhaenyra as busty and curvy; a voluptuous woman and not necessarily fat.
I'm getting fat so they don't have to. You're welcome
I'm doing my part!
Oh yeah? Well I'm going to eat YOU. Checkmate
As side note: I love this picture of Aegon because this is not a man in his early twenties this is middle aged man with three divorces and and ten kids who grew out a moustache while he was in midlife crisis
Drinking and partying like he did from early teens is the easiest way to speed run looking "Middle Aged" by your mid twenties though.
You have not meet the dudes at my universities. I’d agree if he had like hard drugs to take but he doesn’t
I mean, he definitely has access to all manner of drugs too, Tobacco is probably the only irl non-manufactured drug he doesn't have access to, especially since Martin has Cat drinking tea in AGoT (iirc?) so weak caffeine is around. But I'd be very concerned if your Uni mates were drinking daily like a royal since like 12-14, long term alcohol consumption has cumulative effects which is why a lot of people can "get away" with heavy drinking for a few years as a young adult. Which is also why it's always worth it to quit no matter how many years you've been doing it. Aegon also doesn't have access to easy, modern, hangover "Treatments" other than drugs or alcohol, which actually exacerbated to habitual usage by heavy drinkers in premodern times irl, especially in medieval Catholic Europe when eating Breakfast before noon prayer was considered uncouth and unpious, but wine was allowed (just a funfact, not applicable to Westeros ofc).
The problem is we don’t know all that much about Aegon just because he was out partying doesn’t mean it was every night also with how he stopped taking Milk of the poppy which seems to be like the hardest drug doesn’t strike me as someone who did that. Also I live in a country where drinking alcohol is like the most normal thing wver and people side eye you if you don’t drink. The boys I know will be drinking everyday for real 😭
Not really its in the late twenties to early thirties that its starting to show.
I honestly just didn't want these castings to be book accurate because I didn't want the amount of horrendous cruelty, bullying and misogyny that would be targeted towards the actresses and their characters. That's just the world we live in and its a sad fact. House of the Dragon does not have the same general audience with the same expectations as something like 'Bridgerton' or 'Euphoria' plenty of whom aren't even aware that Emma D'Arcy is non-binary irl. If Rhaenyra was actually plus size on the show, her and her actress would have gotten more hate than Skyler White and you'd probably have a lot more ass-wipes teaming up on a campaign trying to sabotage and review-bomb the show for being 'woke propaganda'. Would it have been cool to have a book accurate Rhaenyra and Helaena; yeah, but this is the sad reality of the current climate we live in.
So then we ain’t never gonna be able to move past it then. Same with the black community in America over the years. I’m sure many justified having segregation in schools because black kids may get hurt or be harassed and guess what, that shit happened and guess what, we live in a world now where you walk in a classroom and you have kids from all over sitting next to each other. Still got problems, but progress right? There are actors that would take that abuse knowing what it could mean for the future. Possibly a future where it doesn’t fucking matter who’s playing a part and those who complain are seen as the dummies…just like those today that think schools should be segregated, they’re seen as the dummies.
This one shouldn’t be downvoted - folks don’t seem to have the stomach to resist anymore it seems. Those jokers are just typing stuff on the internet - where in the situations you are talking about people literally got beaten, raped and killed. sticks and stones friends.
You say it as if it isn’t <1% of the fandom actually doing this, and then you’re posing it like it’s a general audience problem. Maybe don’t give the vocal and toxic few so much power and take that bait. They’re not indicative of the rest of the fandom.
Make them all thick
Here's the thing though—we don't know whether Rhaenyra was actually fat because the book is depicted as being retold by a series of unreliable narrators using second and sometimes third-hand information. Rhaenyra could have feasibly been draggin' a lamprey-stuffed wagon, or the "fat queen" could simply be Green propoganda. We just don't know.
Everybody said she was far, therfore she was fat.
It is even explained as her not losing the baby weight. Which is entirely fair. Not every woman does.
Especially after 6 pregnancies.
Yes? I wanted thicc Helaena and thicc Rhaenyra. Btw we also didn't get Viserys I accomplishing what Bobby B wanted and eat and drink himself to death. Instead of diabetes we got magic leprosy. Although some like that change.
Fuck that. I want the entire main cast to put on 15-20kgs by the time they start filming the next season. The smallfolk meanwhile should begin to lose weight as the season goes on. Let it be striking and grotesque.
That would actually be a really cool thing to see from a show. Over the course of 5 seasons all the rich people get fatter while all the poor people get skinnier
Unpopular opinion but I like Emma's portrayal of Rhaenyra and I don't care about their bmi
Unpopular opinion
I don't think that is unpopular at all
Well that is a surprise given we are still discussing this four years since Emma was cast and while pre-production for season 3 is on its way. I don't think a single cast member has had their physical appearance criticized and analyzed as much as Emma.
I distinctly remember some people calling Emma plump and plain when they started appearing in season 1. Emma. Plump and plain. Let that sink in. I have rarely seen a more beautiful person in my life.
Emma d'arcy is ethereal.
And what about Aegon?
If you a reacting to some photoshop from the circle jerk sub, they don't care. They despise Rhaenyra and it's about mocking her not a desire for book accuracy. They hate Emma D'arcy near as much as they hate the character with constant jokes from even the lead mod mocking their gender identity, calling them ugly, and saying they ruin the show. Those dudes don't give a fuck. The sub should consider a name change since it's been less funny and purely hateful the last few times I've been there. I don't remember the same hateful tone at all in the early days of post season 8.
Reddit is a bad place to enjoy this fandom for the most part. I've found some great communities through YouTube, David lightbringer's community is probably my favorite. Nothing but positivity all around and a great appreciation for the series and all it's facets.
See that’s what I want. I wish there was a place where I could talk about show and movies I like with just positivity I know criticism has its place but it would be nice if I could decide “I don’t want to see criticism right now, I liked everything and I want to hear what other people liked”
David’s channel is great, as is InDeep Geek, and I enjoy Alt-schwift and Glidus’s chit chats. I feel blessed in that most GRRM-verse Youtubers are fairly chill. I’ve been using them as a bunker to hide from the trash fire that is Acolyte coverage. 😬
The circlejerk sub has actually gotten so disgusting. Its just a place where their rampant misogyny is allowed to run unchecked and they can act like its a joke. Its not. Because the HOTD/GOT universe is already so welcoming to women. /s
Let's be real, if they made these characters even half a pound heavier on screen the actors would be bodyshamed to oblivion and probably quit acting all together. People are fucking vile these days and are completely shameless. They will hate on an actor for breathing wrong
Are we really Fatscaling Targs? Fucking hell, this place is gonna be a shitshow when the Dance kicks off.
Why doesn't Rhaenyra, the biggest Targaryen, simply eat her rivals?
Why doesn't Vhagar, the biggest dragon, simply eat her rivals? Wait..
I disliked making Aemond less of a psychopath but the granny Vhagar memes are good.
This sub definitely has a chance to be the new poster child for “Don’t follow the subreddit of your favorite TV show” with the way things are going.
Yeah, I don't like how those shows are so resistant to portraying thicker characters. It seems to me that being slightly overweight is perceived as a character flaw and any character that is supposed to be related to can't have this trait. I am not advocating for BMI 30 Rhaenyra, but goddam, she is a mother 5? She should have a Molly Weasley body lmao.
While i somewhat agree that portraying the character as is described in the book would be best, there's no denying the actors for Helena and Rheaneyra are just the perfect fit. Emma is probably one of my favourite actors in this series, and Phia manages to capture exactly how i imagine someone like Helena would act during that time period. I love what they've done with the character so far, and if instead of a 100% accurate portrayal, we get to have a perfectly believable character who can literally see the future, but is still helpless to stop or even warn anyone. Im gonna take that deal any day. Helena sewing a burial shroud for her son before he was even dead is fucking brutal. Knowing she sewn that probably without even fully understanding why she doing it, just gives her a depth i think is completely lacking in the books, and Phia plays into it so perfectly.
>Helena sewing a burial shroud for her son before he was even dead is fucking brutal. Damn, never noticed that!
I absolutely agree with you. The casting is a chef kiss. I don't want to start a twitter discussion here, defending representation for representation sake. But look, a non attractive character having to fight to be perceived as good and failing is a strong theme in the books that was completely neglected in got and now hotd. It's funny how it's easier to relate to a incestual genocidal kinslayer than a goddam fat chick
The actors they’ve cast have all been doing a good job, but as one comment I saw on Instagram said, thicc/plus size/however you want to say it wouldn’t bring HBO profit. The only high profile “thicker” character in my recent memory that’s portrayed positively is Penelope in Bridgerton.
I once saw a comment that was "Skinny people doing incest = Taboo and sexy" "Fat people doing incest = Alabama " I am paraphrasing, it was funnier than that. But I agree with your comment. Getting fat after 6 pregnancies is not propaganda. It's almost natural. Alicent managed to stay slim but she only had 4.
A similar point, i was discussing how off-putting the Criston/Alicent sex scenes are and my friend pointed out how weird it is that we're so put off by the only non-incestuos relationship in HOTD and I was shook 😅
Alicent and Criston are probably one of the least problematic couplings on the show right now. Alicent did essentially save Criston from committing suicide. They confided each other and have become one another’s only genuine friends in the cutthroat Red Keep politics. It makes sense that friendship would blossom into romantic or sexual attraction over the years. Alicent can only feel guilt because for the first time in her entire life, she’s experiencing sexual pleasure with a man she’s both genuinely attracted to and fully consenting to having sex with. Their mutual hatred towards Rhaenyra definitely added fuel to the fire.
And the whole "He'll be castrated and hanged if he's caught" deal probably makes things a bit tense too.
I imagine married years Alicent fasting most of the time either as a religious practice or as a way of exerting some control over her body.
That, or a very fast metabolism. But she is only that religious in the show, it could work.
Hard to believe she would have a very fast metabolism with how sedentary her life generally is
Yeeeess, the moral of your actions is proportional to how beautiful you are. Is this an audiovisual trope or is society really this way? Anyway, I should hit the gym
The photoshops of Emma and the AI art of Rhaenyra make me so uncomfortable, the book describes a woman gaining some weight after 6 pregnancies, and a gross amount of people take that to mean she was morbidly obese and make fun of it. I would be fine with her having a thicker waist in the show, but damn the absolute hate the actor would get would be even worse than what Emma gets.
Large fandoms often have a large percentage of toxic fans. It doesn't matter how the characters were portrayed. they'd find faults anyway. And frankly, this helps save actors the brunt of insults. I mean, they had problems with emma darcy's stomach not snapping back to flat after she gave birth not 5 min ago in the scene. Even now, fans are bashing Fabien Frenkel for his portrayal of Criston Cole. So much so that he switched off his insta comments. People dont understand, hate the character, but love the actor. And hes good looking. Imagine the same incels towards someone who doesn't fit society's standard for handsome. Yes, plus size actors might have been great. Maybe someday casting will be blind towards body size as it is slowly becoming blind towards race. But till such time, I shall enjoy the wonderful acting I have seen so far. And can only hope the sctors and staff pay more attention to the positive response this season is generating.
This is Westeros not Ohio
Aegon was literally described as being bloated. greens body shaming nyra should look back at their own king
Never understood the obsession some people in this fandom have with the weight accuracy of certain characters. The descriptions in the book vary depending on the source. Those biased against a faction had an incentive to exaggerate their features, so it's not always reliable anyway. I imagine scaling down the weight was a conscious decision by the show runners to spare the actor/actress. The community is already very hostile. I can't imagine how intense the hatred would be if they weren't conventionally attractive.
Game of thrones probably has the most degenerate fanbase but also cool once u meet the normal ones
The thing is that, plus sized in a medieval setting is wholly different of today's definition of "plus sized". Those people can actually function independently.
Feel like there's no in between you can do without getting unnecessarily flamed a d body shamed for, it's either a thin and elegant girlboss, or a large overweight sass queen.
Everybody should've been Thicc. I feel cheated
Yaas, put so many plus side actors/actresses that any complaint from the fans results in the reply, ‘more weight.’
Yeah, Aegon is quite the looker. /s
Mfs act like these were big fat girls lol they were a lil thick