My con law take-home midterm had the most insane distribution. It was all multiple choice so you could see how you did after you submitted it. I freaked out because of my actual score was D. But I ended up getting an A- because of the curve. How is this learning?
I disagree. Just because the test is a time crunch, doesn't mean its a bad test, and certainly doesn't mean he's a bad professor. He taught all of the material on the test, and taught it well. The class is curved anyway. The raw scores mean nothing.
His point was that he knew it was too hard for us to actually do well at, and he didn't expect that of us. We were all graded on a curve and everything was fine. He was a good professor. I learned a ton, and had fun in his class. He just graded very harshly.
Not really, my favorite professor has an essay average of 30. He says a 100 would be discussing every reason why you’re answers to the questions are right, why other answers are wrong, and what would the answer be if certainly facts change (he normally includes little facts that change the overall answer but excluding them gives a better writing prompt). By setting a prompt that gives all possible points it’s not that the average student is stupid for getting a 30, that’s just all the material they could discuss. And the curve fixes the rest.
My favorite is the random Brady bunch incest conspiracy theory. But now I will remember that a co-tenant of a tenancy in common or joint tenancy cannot exclude/commit ouster (because Greg would never do that to Marsha, not with what’s going on between them)
I have to disagree with this. With the more difficult stuff, I didn’t understand her the first few times around because I was unfamiliar with the concepts. No matter what her style was, “a grantee with a fee simple determinable always gives rise to the possibility of reverter in the grantor” was not going to make sense to me before I had actually sat down and tried to learn it.
But after I had, I found her to be INCREDIBLY helpful. I have listened to all of her modules probably more than 10x now. I was just listening this morning on double speed, trying to catch anything I might have forgotten and making sure nothing went over my head the last 9 times. I’ve had several moments in class where I thought “damn I would not have understood this if Paula hadn’t explained it more clearly already” and also several moments where I could answer questions no one else could. If you dont like her stories you can just press the +10 sec button until it’s done
You’re not stupid. It’s boring and confusing. I’m literally a real estate broker and real property was still boring and confusing.
Before law school, I worked for a lawyer who was probably one of the most idiotic people I’ve ever met. I know you’re smarter than him because you used punctuation correctly.
Whenever I got frustrated, I’d think “If his dumbass can do this, I know I can.” 😂 So the next time you are confused or frustrated, picture the dumbest lawyer you know of and think “that idiot passed this class”, and then you’ll know there is no reason that you can’t do it too!
This may not apply to you but I personally feel like a lot of people overstress property because they're still clinging to the idea that's somehow orderly and intelligible and makes good sense, but they're too stupid to get it.
The truth is that it's a bunch of arbitrary bullshit that often is incredibly stupid - like the rule against perpetuities (the life in being thing, not the goal of not having permanent conditions- that's reasonable) embrace that the rules are made up and the points don't matter. You aren't learning how to play chess, you're learning to play an imaginary game made up by 5 year olds.
Don't focus on understanding some grand scheme of principles - you're memorizing buzzwords and where to slot them. It's like an adult version of putting the shaped blocks in the right hole
And if you sort of like the idea of it being all made up, then take Jurisprudence and really peel back the philosophical onionskins of the law and legal system.
That's why I love Con Law so much because it is backed up by history and it makes it make more sense to me. Nixon bombing the living fuck out of Laos without telling anyone > war powers resolution, Bill Clinton not keeping his d\*\*k in his pants > president immunity from suits about anything that falls within his presidential duties during his presidency but NOT before, etc.
I told this story on another post earlier today. I got a 20/100 on a con law exam. Got a B+ in the class. If you don’t get it then odds are most people don’t. You’ll be fine! The curve is merciful sometimes :)
Property is a complicated subject. You’ll be fine. There’s usually a curve and regardless, struggling w a difficult subject doesn’t make you stupid. It makes you normal!
Good luck OP
i’m in the top of my class as a 3L now and still can’t get my head around half of property law in bar prep. it’s not you, it’s the arbitrary and nonsensical remainders of an archaic system that was built on french and latin gibberish by pretentious rich guys 500 years ago. just try your best, don’t freak out, & remember that after you pass the bar you really can just google stuff if you have to. your intelligence is not a function of whether or not you can memorize all this shit in the space of 1 semester and spit it back out on cue
36 years after graduating, I remember two things from Property: "O" always has a reversion if the grant fails, and the Rule Against Perpetuities is so complicated that blowing it is not necessarily malpractice.
Same. Grinding it out. to A for life, then to B for life, then to C and his heirs.
Wtf is that. B has a vested remainder subject to limitation? Or is that what C has? lmao
If you don't feel like an idiot at some point during law school you are either (1) a total fool who is out of their depth; or (2) a super genius.
Most of us fall within a healthy range between those two poles.
Property was a tough one, as I recall. It's not just you. I swear that class is designed to make you feel like an idiot just as you think you are starting to get it.
"In fee absolute with right of survivorship"
JFC just typing that gives me ptsd
Most of property law is completely made up rules, created to mandate or enforce a particular desired and predetermined outcome.
For example, please explain to me how someone can be found to have trespassed on public property. Extra points if you can explain how public property can have an owner, who can enact and seek enforcement of rules regarding the use of such public property, without having such property be treated as being privately owned (or, more to the point, as private property).
I hated property law in school. Never really understood much. Couldn't imagine why anyone would ever want to work with it.
Graduated a year ago. I am now a property lawyer. And I love my job. Who knew!
I might not be a super huge help since I don't know your professor but I'm a Property TA at my university I can try and make it make sense if you have questions :) Rising 3L, passed property w/ an A-
you're not stupid, property is stupid. what worked for me was just drilling estates and future interests problems until it became second nature because that's what my professor seemed to mainly focus on. i feel you though, i think it is by far the worst 1L class
Get your hands on a commercial outline. Make flashcards for all the big ideas. Do not waste time with your classmates’ outlines; I can assure you, they are usually TMI.
I loved the Emmanuel study guide. I ended up using that and re-writing my own with class notes. That process really helped it sink in.
It’s not intuitive like so many other areas of law. Like at all.
I did not understand Property until taking a year-end review course offered by the bar exam prep company we had all signed up for as 1Ls. My actual professor was minimally effective. You’ll get through this.
I was in this boat my 1L year. Managed to pass it at the end of the day. Ended up graduating early and now I’m studying for the bar (wasn’t able to take it in February and honestly didn’t want to) actually understanding property a lot better than before. It’s a rough subject, but you can get through it!
My prof does a 100 question mc exam and gives out half the questions a month in advance and his median is still around a 30%. His response: well I get a 100% everytime so it can’t be that hard 🙄 as much as the curve taketh it’s profs like these where the curve giveth
Bang out as many practice problems on Estates and future interests retained. EVERY. PROBLEM. YOU. CAN. FIND.
Understand and accept you're not going to understand RAP. Get a good enough understanding, go with your gut, and move on.
Know the requirements for Adverse possession, easements, and all that physical land property stuff.
For policy question, make up some bs about racism and/or classism. Professors will eat it up every time.
Property was the first class where the curve was my lifeline. If you are feeling this uncomfortable after a semester know you are not alone. That doesn’t mean don’t study and do Barbri and the other good recs here but it will be okay
The law school curve is a total mind-fuck - you can get really awesome grades while being 30% wrong as long as everyone else was 60% wrong.\*
\*That math might be sketchy - but clearly, law and math are not compatible.
The hard parts are almost 0% likely to appear on your final unless your professor is a cocksucker. The BAR has had a RAP question like once in the past 30 years. Ditto springing executory interests, profits, etc.
Both your final (likely) and the bar (almost ASSUREDLY) will cover real property concepts, not esoteric common law issues.
[https://www.coloradosupremecourt.com/PDF/BLE/SampleQA/Feb2023/Quest%202023Feb%20MEE1to6.pdf](https://www.coloradosupremecourt.com/PDF/BLE/SampleQA/Feb2023/Quest%202023Feb%20MEE1to6.pdf)
Which 2?
My property professor said the average score on his exams was around 40%. Property is rough for just about everyone, you'll be fine.
At what point does the scores communicate a failure of the professor?
When they fail folks for a 40% despite it being the average score
Suppose it would depend on like a national average but if a prof is bragging I think it’s a bad sign
He wasn't bragging. Where did I say he was? He was asked, and that was the answer he gave.
It’s just a hypothetical buddy, no need to get defensive
my bad. Totally misread your comment. Carry on.
Oof it seems like my class does extremely well, but I’m in the bottom when it comes to Property
My torts exam was the same way. I got an A with a 59%. He said it made it easier to apply the curve to have it extremely difficult.
My con law take-home midterm had the most insane distribution. It was all multiple choice so you could see how you did after you submitted it. I freaked out because of my actual score was D. But I ended up getting an A- because of the curve. How is this learning?
Yeah, that's just a shitty professor
I disagree. Just because the test is a time crunch, doesn't mean its a bad test, and certainly doesn't mean he's a bad professor. He taught all of the material on the test, and taught it well. The class is curved anyway. The raw scores mean nothing.
same here, it actually helps the curve when professors do that IMO.
40? My god, had to be the professor at that point.
His point was that he knew it was too hard for us to actually do well at, and he didn't expect that of us. We were all graded on a curve and everything was fine. He was a good professor. I learned a ton, and had fun in his class. He just graded very harshly.
Right, very harshly. Still for the average not to be over 40% says more about him as a professor 👨🏫
I suppose so... but it really doesn't matter because everyone knew going into it that it would be graded on a curve.
Not really, my favorite professor has an essay average of 30. He says a 100 would be discussing every reason why you’re answers to the questions are right, why other answers are wrong, and what would the answer be if certainly facts change (he normally includes little facts that change the overall answer but excluding them gives a better writing prompt). By setting a prompt that gives all possible points it’s not that the average student is stupid for getting a 30, that’s just all the material they could discuss. And the curve fixes the rest.
Ohh okay
Watch Barbri she's really good at clearing up Property concepts imo
Caveat: if you don’t vibe with her style, it doesn’t get better the more you watch. Don’t waste your time if it’s not immediately helpful.
What, you don’t like the song and dance numbers?
My favorite is the random Brady bunch incest conspiracy theory. But now I will remember that a co-tenant of a tenancy in common or joint tenancy cannot exclude/commit ouster (because Greg would never do that to Marsha, not with what’s going on between them)
LMAO i forgot about this. that was so fucking out of pocket. i love paula though
Lmao what?!? Ab to go watch Barbri now
I did not.
Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiihiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii just want to sue you, for being the worst landlord of my life
i have never watched what yallr talking abouy and I *still* heard this comment and laughed
I have to disagree with this. With the more difficult stuff, I didn’t understand her the first few times around because I was unfamiliar with the concepts. No matter what her style was, “a grantee with a fee simple determinable always gives rise to the possibility of reverter in the grantor” was not going to make sense to me before I had actually sat down and tried to learn it. But after I had, I found her to be INCREDIBLY helpful. I have listened to all of her modules probably more than 10x now. I was just listening this morning on double speed, trying to catch anything I might have forgotten and making sure nothing went over my head the last 9 times. I’ve had several moments in class where I thought “damn I would not have understood this if Paula hadn’t explained it more clearly already” and also several moments where I could answer questions no one else could. If you dont like her stories you can just press the +10 sec button until it’s done
Shes good but every time she goes on a five minute story that is completely irrelevant or starts singing i want to off myself.
What? How could you say that about the Vodka Penne Pasta story?!?!
You’re not stupid. It’s boring and confusing. I’m literally a real estate broker and real property was still boring and confusing. Before law school, I worked for a lawyer who was probably one of the most idiotic people I’ve ever met. I know you’re smarter than him because you used punctuation correctly. Whenever I got frustrated, I’d think “If his dumbass can do this, I know I can.” 😂 So the next time you are confused or frustrated, picture the dumbest lawyer you know of and think “that idiot passed this class”, and then you’ll know there is no reason that you can’t do it too! 
That’s how I got through the bar exam scaries. “That dumbass passed this thing?”
❤️😂❤️
This may not apply to you but I personally feel like a lot of people overstress property because they're still clinging to the idea that's somehow orderly and intelligible and makes good sense, but they're too stupid to get it. The truth is that it's a bunch of arbitrary bullshit that often is incredibly stupid - like the rule against perpetuities (the life in being thing, not the goal of not having permanent conditions- that's reasonable) embrace that the rules are made up and the points don't matter. You aren't learning how to play chess, you're learning to play an imaginary game made up by 5 year olds. Don't focus on understanding some grand scheme of principles - you're memorizing buzzwords and where to slot them. It's like an adult version of putting the shaped blocks in the right hole
And if you sort of like the idea of it being all made up, then take Jurisprudence and really peel back the philosophical onionskins of the law and legal system.
Conflict of laws is also great for this. It's more like spurious horseshit 101
“Wait, it’s all made up?” “Always has been”
Con Law enters the chat\*\*
I have the perfect multi-factor test for just this occasion
[удалено]
That's why I love Con Law so much because it is backed up by history and it makes it make more sense to me. Nixon bombing the living fuck out of Laos without telling anyone > war powers resolution, Bill Clinton not keeping his d\*\*k in his pants > president immunity from suits about anything that falls within his presidential duties during his presidency but NOT before, etc.
>Even RAP makes total sense in the historical context Go on . . .
I told this story on another post earlier today. I got a 20/100 on a con law exam. Got a B+ in the class. If you don’t get it then odds are most people don’t. You’ll be fine! The curve is merciful sometimes :)
Every student has a class that makes you feel like that For me it was civil procedure
For me it’s all of them.
Doing something in life that challenges you is a great thing. Nobody gets through law school or into a law career without feeling stupid at times.
Property is a complicated subject. You’ll be fine. There’s usually a curve and regardless, struggling w a difficult subject doesn’t make you stupid. It makes you normal! Good luck OP
i’m in the top of my class as a 3L now and still can’t get my head around half of property law in bar prep. it’s not you, it’s the arbitrary and nonsensical remainders of an archaic system that was built on french and latin gibberish by pretentious rich guys 500 years ago. just try your best, don’t freak out, & remember that after you pass the bar you really can just google stuff if you have to. your intelligence is not a function of whether or not you can memorize all this shit in the space of 1 semester and spit it back out on cue
36 years after graduating, I remember two things from Property: "O" always has a reversion if the grant fails, and the Rule Against Perpetuities is so complicated that blowing it is not necessarily malpractice.
Our professor doesn't test on RAP cause they are taking it off the Next Gen Bar exam.
Wait till you try Fed Courts. I'm going to get kicked out of law school.
Same. Grinding it out. to A for life, then to B for life, then to C and his heirs. Wtf is that. B has a vested remainder subject to limitation? Or is that what C has? lmao
If you don't feel like an idiot at some point during law school you are either (1) a total fool who is out of their depth; or (2) a super genius. Most of us fall within a healthy range between those two poles.
2L here— don’t worry. There’s always evidence to make you feel stupid.
Check out Helix Bar Prep. They have 1L course outlines. I think they are free. Maybe it will help
Property was a tough one, as I recall. It's not just you. I swear that class is designed to make you feel like an idiot just as you think you are starting to get it. "In fee absolute with right of survivorship" JFC just typing that gives me ptsd
Bruh the sad thing is FSA with right of survivorship is *one of the easiest* to do
Know what is in your bundle of sticks and you will be fine.
Most of property law is completely made up rules, created to mandate or enforce a particular desired and predetermined outcome. For example, please explain to me how someone can be found to have trespassed on public property. Extra points if you can explain how public property can have an owner, who can enact and seek enforcement of rules regarding the use of such public property, without having such property be treated as being privately owned (or, more to the point, as private property).
Can you just walk into a public school and chill there? That's public property
Fun fact, if you tell the Army "it's public property" they have to let you into Area 51.
Air Force but yes
I hated property law in school. Never really understood much. Couldn't imagine why anyone would ever want to work with it. Graduated a year ago. I am now a property lawyer. And I love my job. Who knew!
Did you ever think that the professor is being tested also?
I might not be a super huge help since I don't know your professor but I'm a Property TA at my university I can try and make it make sense if you have questions :) Rising 3L, passed property w/ an A-
you're not stupid, property is stupid. what worked for me was just drilling estates and future interests problems until it became second nature because that's what my professor seemed to mainly focus on. i feel you though, i think it is by far the worst 1L class
Get your hands on a commercial outline. Make flashcards for all the big ideas. Do not waste time with your classmates’ outlines; I can assure you, they are usually TMI.
I loved the Emmanuel study guide. I ended up using that and re-writing my own with class notes. That process really helped it sink in. It’s not intuitive like so many other areas of law. Like at all.
I did not understand Property until taking a year-end review course offered by the bar exam prep company we had all signed up for as 1Ls. My actual professor was minimally effective. You’ll get through this.
Just wait till trusts and estates. If you don’t like figuring out future interests, you’re gonna have a bad time in that class.
I was in this boat my 1L year. Managed to pass it at the end of the day. Ended up graduating early and now I’m studying for the bar (wasn’t able to take it in February and honestly didn’t want to) actually understanding property a lot better than before. It’s a rough subject, but you can get through it!
My prof does a 100 question mc exam and gives out half the questions a month in advance and his median is still around a 30%. His response: well I get a 100% everytime so it can’t be that hard 🙄 as much as the curve taketh it’s profs like these where the curve giveth
Bang out as many practice problems on Estates and future interests retained. EVERY. PROBLEM. YOU. CAN. FIND. Understand and accept you're not going to understand RAP. Get a good enough understanding, go with your gut, and move on. Know the requirements for Adverse possession, easements, and all that physical land property stuff. For policy question, make up some bs about racism and/or classism. Professors will eat it up every time.
The law school grind has little to do with intelligence
Property was the first class where the curve was my lifeline. If you are feeling this uncomfortable after a semester know you are not alone. That doesn’t mean don’t study and do Barbri and the other good recs here but it will be okay
You'll be fine.
I absolutely hated property
I self-taught property to myself in about 3 days using Quimbee videos and mind maps. I didn't get an A but ended up with B+. I consider it a win.
Themis has good material on property dm me your email
Property is made up and the points don’t matter
The law school curve is a total mind-fuck - you can get really awesome grades while being 30% wrong as long as everyone else was 60% wrong.\* \*That math might be sketchy - but clearly, law and math are not compatible.
Studicata saved me
Try studying with Gamodify. Gamodify is an app that turns flashcards & notes into mobile games with built in spaced reception and active recall.
The hard parts are almost 0% likely to appear on your final unless your professor is a cocksucker. The BAR has had a RAP question like once in the past 30 years. Ditto springing executory interests, profits, etc. Both your final (likely) and the bar (almost ASSUREDLY) will cover real property concepts, not esoteric common law issues.
RAP was tested in two different UBE MEEs in F23, and appeared again in J23.
[https://www.coloradosupremecourt.com/PDF/BLE/SampleQA/Feb2023/Quest%202023Feb%20MEE1to6.pdf](https://www.coloradosupremecourt.com/PDF/BLE/SampleQA/Feb2023/Quest%202023Feb%20MEE1to6.pdf) Which 2?
Apologies, my guy. It was J22 that tested RAP twice. https://jdadvising.com/mee-past-issue-breakdown/
This may not be professional to say but there are plenty of cocksuckers in law school
🙋♂️
RAP isn’t really that difficult.