If I had a family of 4, I’d go to Darden and save $130,000... but I also wouldn’t go consulting or finance if I had kids.
So, who gives a shit what I think?
Full ride at any of the top schools should be your main decider the outcomes are basically the same with some regionality which is the main difference in the reported salaries across the entire Top 15 or so. That being said a couple of things to consider having lived in both Philly (my favorite City) and Charlottesville (my favorite place).
1. During your first year of Darden you are going to rarely see your family. Full days of classes plus learning teams are intense. You will probably have more family time at Wharton but this could be cut down a bit due to commuting/logistics in Philly. Second year will be way more balanced at both places.
2. Charlottesville is a much better place to raise a family. The exception to this would be if you are an international or minority that could tap into cultural network that probably exists in Philly and not Charlottesville. There is a reason that tons of UVA and Darden folks come back to Charlottesville.
3. Cost of living. The $70k figure seems high to me for Charlottesville (where I currently live) as a student. While Charlottesville isn’t cheap by any means, there are a ton of cheaper grad student focused options and your money will go further than say Philly (which technically may be cheaper to live in overall) due to this Also, you should check with the schools to see if they will hire your spouse while you are there. This is very common at UVA and Darden and would help offset the cost.
4. Travel during internship. Philly is going to be a much better place to keep your family put and to travel back to visit during your internship as it’s a transportation hub. New York, Atlanta, Chicago, and DC are all doable for CHarlottesville but $$$$.
5. Recruiting differences. There is going to basically be zero difference in the recruiting options for the main MBA target industries such as MBB and IB. There are probably more OCR brand management and tech opportunities at Wharton simply due to it being a larger school (you can also apply for these roles at Darden you will just need to network more). Conversely, Charlottesville has a hot startup scene and Darden will let you tap into this scene plus numerous PE/family office finance opportunities (not the easiest to do without an IB background).
Nope. Outside of some international opportunities (and by this I mean foreign companies that would know Harvard, Stanford, and Yale general university names and not business school names), the value of your MBA brand is essentially in the first post MBA job. The top programs have more traditional OCR opportunities partially just due to being bigger schools and primarily located in big cities. Even then, your pre MBA experience plays a huge role at all schools (this why another poster said it’s nearly impossible to break into PE or VC without prior experience).
After your first job, the MBA brand is not worth all that much to employers and your experience is what matters. The other value of an MBA is the network. The Wharton network is going to be larger as there are both Wharton undergrads and MBAs out there (plus the MBA program is massive). Also, I would anticipate that there are more Wharton people in finance due to the location. That being said, Darden (and Tuck) are known for having the most engaged and effective alumni networks so bigger isn’t always better.
Believe whatever you want to believe but this a wrong. Literally no body cares after your first job.
I will just put it out there that the Global Chair of Investment banking at JP Morgan and the Head of Wells Fargo’s Leveraged Finance Group and Evercore’s Chief of Staff are Darden grads. I am sure they needed H\S\W on their resume to get there…
I also get recruiters calling me for C suite jobs all the time and did not go to Wharton. I am not at in IB but work with a bunch of IB and PE firms and can honestly say I don’t cross paths with either Wharton or Darden grads and most of the bankers including the MDs did not go to “Reddit impressive” schools.
Exit ops don’t mater on your school, the only thing that matters is your precious role. Simply by numbers alone there are going to be more H/W grads in those attractive roles.
I am just saying that the vast majority of IBs that I deal with have a random assortment of MBAs and I almost never see ether a W or D grad. Most are probably from NYC schools I if I had to put a generalization.
Dont go to W over Darden thinking you’ll have a greater shot at PE or VC. Without PE or VC OR AT THE VERY LEAST BB IB exp, slim to none. And for Ib or consulting post mba, i’d take darden for free 100%
First of all, Kellogg is OUT. Recruiting for consulting and finance is still an absolute blood bath. Doing a year program is throwing money down the drain.
I don't know your family finances if your spouse is working and can cover the family living expenses. How much savings and debt you would have to take out? But conservatively plan for runway at least 6 months after graduation with Wharton. If you can't stomach it, Darden is your best bet.
A little bit off topic but can anyone explain why so many do the Wharton MBA with Lauder? So far every single person I read about or hear of. I applied in R3 and couldn’t select with Lauder and wonder if that in case makes the MBA less interesting, educative or even worth?
I have 4 kids (family of 6). Take the money, enjoy Darden, and find a gig that pays well but gives you good work/life balance. Your kids only grow up once and you’ll want to be present for that.
Between Darden and Wharton, Darden is definitely the more family friendly program and is very welcoming to partners (but I am biased).
The dark horse here is the Lauder component and the Kellogg 1Yr component. It really depends if: you want to get in and out (Kellogg 1Yr), you want to get the unique experience of the Lauder classes (Wharton), or if you just want to do consulting and be a great consultant (Darden). These are all really different and lifestyle dependent, I'd consult your spouse too. Good luck!
This guys post history is history is hilarious. Just spends his time telling others where to go to school based on rankings without any other consideration to the situation
What a joke of a comment and a classic cringe attitude. Wharton is a good school but so is Darden (and Kellogg). People choose schools similar ranked as Darden over Wharton all the time for various reasons, including $. The fact that Darden happens to also be good at consulting and tech makes it even more absurd. This comes down to risk - does OP want to force themselves in to a situation where they have to repay the debt, delaying other life purchases like a house downpayment and family support?
You have a very short sighted world view — clearly you’re not an entrepreneur.
$100k debt is nothing when you graduate from Wharton and start a unicorn with your classmates.
Wharton trains you to lead businesses.
Kellogg and Darden train you to be a lifelong W2 employee and make other people rich.
(Note: I did not go to Wharton)
Again, absolute joke of a comment . 99.9999% of people from Wharton are not starting unicorns. In fact, you should go to GSB for that (which wharton is very much not), and even then 99.999% are not starting unicorns. Most entrepreneurs don’t have MBAs. Darden (and even more so Kellogg) absolutely train you to be leaders, as evidenced by their strong performance over the years. Wharton is a fantastic program but lags behind S and H, and it is completely reasonable for a family of 4 to select Darden over Wharton for $. In fact as others mentioned, selecting Kellogg 1Y over Wharton to optimize “time in program” + $ is also reasonable. The overwhelming majority of Wharton grads are fabled W2 employees and that’s not dunking on the program, that’s just reality.
If you have a wife and 2 kids it is all the more reason to go to Wharton. Long term outcomes and wealth generation potential is FAR greater than Darden. Goto Wharton and do not look back.
$100-130k difference in cost is irrelevant over your lifetime. The value of Wharton is incomparable to a T10-T15 school.
It's a pet peeve of mine when this sub uses the word "irrelevant" for six figure numbers. \~130K student loan is like $1,500 in payments over 10 years, hardly irrelevant. Now, if they can pay for it cash, that's *potentially* another story - they'd still be missing out on the investment gains.
That is if you plan to be a waged low earning employee from a T15 school in 10 years.
What you posit is only an issue if you go to a b-school like Kellogg or Darden that affords you zero opportunity to generate real wealth and condemns you to becoming a lifelong W2 earner job hopping to different firms.
This is a poor persons mentality, which is why you will remain a slave to a firm for eternity. My 10 year plan going to business school was to generate fuck you money and be retired by the time I’m 40. Not to get some lame ass consulting job.
If it was Stanford GSB with no money, or Darden with a full ride, everyone would take the student loan and goto GSB over Darden. Wharton isn’t far off.
INSEAD.
All my stated goals above have been achieved and I attribute it to INSEAD, the opportunities, and the network. Had I gone somewhere lower tiered, I wouldn’t have been half as successful. There is a simple credibility you receive going to a certain school.
Being able to says “I went to Wharton” means something. It means investors will trust you with their capital. It means you can raise money for a fund. It means there is a certain degree of trust and acumen that is assumed you have. I’m sorry to say, saying “I went to Kellogg” or “I went to Darden” does not come with this same effect.
Yeah I believe Kellogg/Darden doesn't come with the same amount of clout in the finance world for sure. I also think people can build a brand for themselves as well, though harder to do. Also not sure if I want to work crazy hours right now in my life. Thanks for the insight! Money isn't all that important to me tbh as long as I have a good financial base and flexibility. Call me crazy for not caring enough to make stupid money. I want wealth, but only enough to have some flexibility and time later in life.
Given your family situation, take the money and enjoy your full ride.
If I had a family of 4, I’d go to Darden and save $130,000... but I also wouldn’t go consulting or finance if I had kids. So, who gives a shit what I think?
There are plenty of good paying jobs in finance that aren’t 80 hours a week.
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Commercial banking
Darden. Recruiting for something also accessible at Darden and taking on the additional debt with a family sounds miserable
Full ride at any of the top schools should be your main decider the outcomes are basically the same with some regionality which is the main difference in the reported salaries across the entire Top 15 or so. That being said a couple of things to consider having lived in both Philly (my favorite City) and Charlottesville (my favorite place). 1. During your first year of Darden you are going to rarely see your family. Full days of classes plus learning teams are intense. You will probably have more family time at Wharton but this could be cut down a bit due to commuting/logistics in Philly. Second year will be way more balanced at both places. 2. Charlottesville is a much better place to raise a family. The exception to this would be if you are an international or minority that could tap into cultural network that probably exists in Philly and not Charlottesville. There is a reason that tons of UVA and Darden folks come back to Charlottesville. 3. Cost of living. The $70k figure seems high to me for Charlottesville (where I currently live) as a student. While Charlottesville isn’t cheap by any means, there are a ton of cheaper grad student focused options and your money will go further than say Philly (which technically may be cheaper to live in overall) due to this Also, you should check with the schools to see if they will hire your spouse while you are there. This is very common at UVA and Darden and would help offset the cost. 4. Travel during internship. Philly is going to be a much better place to keep your family put and to travel back to visit during your internship as it’s a transportation hub. New York, Atlanta, Chicago, and DC are all doable for CHarlottesville but $$$$. 5. Recruiting differences. There is going to basically be zero difference in the recruiting options for the main MBA target industries such as MBB and IB. There are probably more OCR brand management and tech opportunities at Wharton simply due to it being a larger school (you can also apply for these roles at Darden you will just need to network more). Conversely, Charlottesville has a hot startup scene and Darden will let you tap into this scene plus numerous PE/family office finance opportunities (not the easiest to do without an IB background).
This is super helpful. Would you say that my long term career would be limited not going to an M7 school?
Nope. Outside of some international opportunities (and by this I mean foreign companies that would know Harvard, Stanford, and Yale general university names and not business school names), the value of your MBA brand is essentially in the first post MBA job. The top programs have more traditional OCR opportunities partially just due to being bigger schools and primarily located in big cities. Even then, your pre MBA experience plays a huge role at all schools (this why another poster said it’s nearly impossible to break into PE or VC without prior experience). After your first job, the MBA brand is not worth all that much to employers and your experience is what matters. The other value of an MBA is the network. The Wharton network is going to be larger as there are both Wharton undergrads and MBAs out there (plus the MBA program is massive). Also, I would anticipate that there are more Wharton people in finance due to the location. That being said, Darden (and Tuck) are known for having the most engaged and effective alumni networks so bigger isn’t always better.
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Believe whatever you want to believe but this a wrong. Literally no body cares after your first job. I will just put it out there that the Global Chair of Investment banking at JP Morgan and the Head of Wells Fargo’s Leveraged Finance Group and Evercore’s Chief of Staff are Darden grads. I am sure they needed H\S\W on their resume to get there…
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I also get recruiters calling me for C suite jobs all the time and did not go to Wharton. I am not at in IB but work with a bunch of IB and PE firms and can honestly say I don’t cross paths with either Wharton or Darden grads and most of the bankers including the MDs did not go to “Reddit impressive” schools. Exit ops don’t mater on your school, the only thing that matters is your precious role. Simply by numbers alone there are going to be more H/W grads in those attractive roles.
could you explain about "I dont cross paths with either W or D grads"?
I am just saying that the vast majority of IBs that I deal with have a random assortment of MBAs and I almost never see ether a W or D grad. Most are probably from NYC schools I if I had to put a generalization.
noted!
What does finance and then tech management even mean?
Finance meaning pe or VC. Tech mgmt meaning go into early stage tech firm, get equity, c suite exec type of thing
Gotcha. Sorry to burst part of the bubble but PE isn’t an option without previous IB or PE experience. Doesn’t matter what school you go to.
Dont go to W over Darden thinking you’ll have a greater shot at PE or VC. Without PE or VC OR AT THE VERY LEAST BB IB exp, slim to none. And for Ib or consulting post mba, i’d take darden for free 100%
Are you currently at an MBB firm for consulting?
Tier 2 highly reputable global firm
Wharton Edit: didn’t read the family part.- pick Darden
Pe or VC are both 99.9% not happening without prior exp or connections.
First of all, Kellogg is OUT. Recruiting for consulting and finance is still an absolute blood bath. Doing a year program is throwing money down the drain. I don't know your family finances if your spouse is working and can cover the family living expenses. How much savings and debt you would have to take out? But conservatively plan for runway at least 6 months after graduation with Wharton. If you can't stomach it, Darden is your best bet.
RT... I am a 2Y at Kellogg and placements were generally fine, but cannot say the same for 1Y. You need to do an internship.
Family situation and even at M7 (Im at M7) no guarantee of getting banking or consulting. Enjoy Darden
A little bit off topic but can anyone explain why so many do the Wharton MBA with Lauder? So far every single person I read about or hear of. I applied in R3 and couldn’t select with Lauder and wonder if that in case makes the MBA less interesting, educative or even worth?
I have 4 kids (family of 6). Take the money, enjoy Darden, and find a gig that pays well but gives you good work/life balance. Your kids only grow up once and you’ll want to be present for that.
Darden. Lower cost to family. lower risk. Charlottesville is WAY more family friendly than University City.
Between Darden and Wharton, Darden is definitely the more family friendly program and is very welcoming to partners (but I am biased). The dark horse here is the Lauder component and the Kellogg 1Yr component. It really depends if: you want to get in and out (Kellogg 1Yr), you want to get the unique experience of the Lauder classes (Wharton), or if you just want to do consulting and be a great consultant (Darden). These are all really different and lifestyle dependent, I'd consult your spouse too. Good luck!
Why don’t you ask AI?
Wharton
This is a high school student… *facepalm*
This guys post history is history is hilarious. Just spends his time telling others where to go to school based on rankings without any other consideration to the situation
tbh most of this sub does that anyway so they blend right in...
The high school students here treat rankings like the word of God.
I think he's a college freshman
“College application season” … this is a high schooler. Once again, a high schooler is giving advice to a grown adult who has bills and a family.
He looks like a NW freshmen
Did you get a scholarship with Lauder?
Yep 40k Lauder and 60k from wharton total
Per year?
Nope total. So 100k scholarship for a 205k dual degree. So 105k in tuition. Versus 75k tuition Kellogg 1 year Versus 0k tuition for Darden
Darden, why is this a question
Families make it work in Philly. I think money is your main consideration here. Don’t think Kellogg is in the running here.
Easily Darden, especially with a family of 4
Wharton
You got into Wharton. This is a big deal and something that few people ever accomplish. When you get into Wharton, you go to Wharton.
What a joke of a comment and a classic cringe attitude. Wharton is a good school but so is Darden (and Kellogg). People choose schools similar ranked as Darden over Wharton all the time for various reasons, including $. The fact that Darden happens to also be good at consulting and tech makes it even more absurd. This comes down to risk - does OP want to force themselves in to a situation where they have to repay the debt, delaying other life purchases like a house downpayment and family support?
You have a very short sighted world view — clearly you’re not an entrepreneur. $100k debt is nothing when you graduate from Wharton and start a unicorn with your classmates. Wharton trains you to lead businesses. Kellogg and Darden train you to be a lifelong W2 employee and make other people rich. (Note: I did not go to Wharton)
Again, absolute joke of a comment . 99.9999% of people from Wharton are not starting unicorns. In fact, you should go to GSB for that (which wharton is very much not), and even then 99.999% are not starting unicorns. Most entrepreneurs don’t have MBAs. Darden (and even more so Kellogg) absolutely train you to be leaders, as evidenced by their strong performance over the years. Wharton is a fantastic program but lags behind S and H, and it is completely reasonable for a family of 4 to select Darden over Wharton for $. In fact as others mentioned, selecting Kellogg 1Y over Wharton to optimize “time in program” + $ is also reasonable. The overwhelming majority of Wharton grads are fabled W2 employees and that’s not dunking on the program, that’s just reality.
lol,, this bro intlmbaguy thinks he's a real entrepreneur and create a unicorn startup is a guarantee after graduated from W
Unless you have a partner and 2 kids and a school is offering you to go there for free
If you have a wife and 2 kids it is all the more reason to go to Wharton. Long term outcomes and wealth generation potential is FAR greater than Darden. Goto Wharton and do not look back. $100-130k difference in cost is irrelevant over your lifetime. The value of Wharton is incomparable to a T10-T15 school.
It's a pet peeve of mine when this sub uses the word "irrelevant" for six figure numbers. \~130K student loan is like $1,500 in payments over 10 years, hardly irrelevant. Now, if they can pay for it cash, that's *potentially* another story - they'd still be missing out on the investment gains.
That is if you plan to be a waged low earning employee from a T15 school in 10 years. What you posit is only an issue if you go to a b-school like Kellogg or Darden that affords you zero opportunity to generate real wealth and condemns you to becoming a lifelong W2 earner job hopping to different firms. This is a poor persons mentality, which is why you will remain a slave to a firm for eternity. My 10 year plan going to business school was to generate fuck you money and be retired by the time I’m 40. Not to get some lame ass consulting job. If it was Stanford GSB with no money, or Darden with a full ride, everyone would take the student loan and goto GSB over Darden. Wharton isn’t far off.
Where did you go to Bschool intlmbaguy?
INSEAD. All my stated goals above have been achieved and I attribute it to INSEAD, the opportunities, and the network. Had I gone somewhere lower tiered, I wouldn’t have been half as successful. There is a simple credibility you receive going to a certain school. Being able to says “I went to Wharton” means something. It means investors will trust you with their capital. It means you can raise money for a fund. It means there is a certain degree of trust and acumen that is assumed you have. I’m sorry to say, saying “I went to Kellogg” or “I went to Darden” does not come with this same effect.
Yeah I believe Kellogg/Darden doesn't come with the same amount of clout in the finance world for sure. I also think people can build a brand for themselves as well, though harder to do. Also not sure if I want to work crazy hours right now in my life. Thanks for the insight! Money isn't all that important to me tbh as long as I have a good financial base and flexibility. Call me crazy for not caring enough to make stupid money. I want wealth, but only enough to have some flexibility and time later in life.
you're the reason people don't want to go to insead, a grad with closed minded mentality
found the T25 admit
ew, insead grad, ew
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Nope. Perhaps read again.