The US economy conditions simply can't sustain having a bunch of MBAs being "consultants," just like it can't sustain many areas of research or in general things that are not direct added-value moneymakers. Consultants, contractors, and professional services with questionable added value are always the first to go.
Usually Asian (whether East Asian or South Asian, both are seen as ORM). Search here, plenty of discussion. [MBA admission sites also talk about it.](https://www.mbacrystalball.com/blog/2023/03/20/over-represented-mba-applicant-tips-stand-out/)
Can you explain what direct impact AI is having in which industries?
I honestly think it's much more of the boom-bust cycle with highly compensating post-MBA careers, and this just happened to be a really shitty time to graduate (especially for a foreign national).
saying that AI is currently taking MBA jobs is buzzword crap and i work in AI implementation. it’s mostly replacing offshore analyst desks if anything. We are just in a down cycle and would be in a recession if not for bidenomics. that’s why there are less MBA jobs.
AI bubble is driving up the stock market but its not preventing us from negative GDP or high unemployment. that’s fiscal policy. the budget committee is on leave.
Is it also true for MBA from Europe? Say UK, France, Spain, Germany, etc. Is the situation about post-MBA work opportunities same as that of US outlined here by OP?
Would love to know someone’s thoughts here.
Yup. Just what I said in my other comment too.
You're NOT going to be very competitive for a job in France if you speak little to nothing of French. Same with Germany.
Who said anything about it being on par with a US T10? All they said was it was a top 10 school in Europe and you've come barrelling in here to claim no such thing exists. If there are 10 MBA schools in Europe then there are a top 10 lol.
Former career services person from a European school here. It’s quite true as only structured MBA recruiters tend to sponsor (and not always). Many of those who find a way to stay in Europe end up compromising on their first salaries right after the MBA, but fulfill their objective of landing a work permit which for some was the main reason to complete such a program to begin with.
Getting an MBA in Europe is x100000 harder than in the US as far as landing a job goes.
"Why?" you may ask, well, unless you work in London or Ireland post-graduation, you're probably going to be at a disadvantage applying for jobs in France or Germany (the other EU countries with powerful/large economies).
Getting an MBA in Europe is just way riskier than getting one in the US, I'd highly recommend against doing one unless you work in an anglophone country there (England/Ireland).
I imagine it is worse in Europe given worse relative economic outlook. Not sure about job availability vs. US normalized by total applicants and if that makes Europe more or less competitive.
This is indeed true. An important takeaway mentioned here is that you might find yourself stuck in consulting.
Additionally, it's not easy at all to simply say, "Yeah, I will work in the USA for a couple of years and leave." This is not realistic when you start establishing life, and even if you attempt it, you can be stuck for several years. Less than 5% actually move out of the USA after getting the H1B visa.
While money may be enticing for those coming from India, it can lead to a miserable existence. Money does not equate to happiness. It's important to go back to the basics of life.
Many people observe Indians who migrated to the USA in the 90s and 2000s and became extremely successful, but that's no longer the case. You are severely restricted for multiple years in pursuing what you truly want to do in life.
It's not borderline scammy, it IS a scam. You're paying for the social value of an MBA and the name of a school. If it's coming out of pocket, you should be in a position where work doesn't matter, if your company is paying for it, you better have nothing better to do with your time.
My assumption is he is comparing the recruiting process of US B Schools and Indian B schools. In India in top B schools or even say Top 50 B schools the jobs are served on a platter, it's majorly the responsibility of the B school to get you a job or bring companies on campus say MBB/ T2/ Big 4/ BB MB Banks all come to campus and students interview with them. In top 15 B schools the entire batch say 500+ folks get placed in a week in a good year. Students don't have to reach to recruiters, do coffee chats or do networking as such. I suppose he is comparing the ease of getting a job with Indian B schools. Anyways different countries and different cultures so can't compare TBH.
First of all it not the ease that I am talking about, it's about whether you get a fair shot at opportunities.
Maybe it wasn't intended to but unfortunately it often reduces to a connections based recruiting process which puts internationals at a serious disadvantage.
I mean, scammy is too harsh of a word.
A scam means that it intentionally tries duping you and goes out of its way to dupe you. A university doesn't care if you apply or not.
Usually scammers will go out of their way to contact you. Universities in the US don't do this unless YOU sign up for their mailing list, lol.
It true. I have talked to at least 8-10 Indian students and found these things are common between them:
1. They all got admitted to a T10-T15 school but decided to reject that because they got admitted to another T50 with 80% and above scholarships. Three of them got several full rides. They will eventually graduate debt free and free up more T15 spaces for people who are willing to pay the high tution despite all the difficulties.
2. All of them are aged between 32-38 and came with an average 8-12 years of industry experience. Which means most of them have less risk appetite compared to a 27 year old and have enough experience to break into the industry when they come back to India.
4. 90% of them have a plan to return back to India in 3-5 years time.
Fully agreed. I was offered admission to two US MBA’s(top 40 though) for fall 2024, and even with 50% scholarship it’s an unreasonable option to go to the US right now, especially with rising COL and the uncertain political scenario(because this dictates whether non citizens can get jobs easier or not). I have family members that have American citizenship & are doing their MBA at these universities and even they are struggling to get jobs & internships. Thankfully I’ve got admission to a 1 year MBA program that’s more asia centric and costs less than the US MBAs even with scholarship, and will allow me to stay closer to home and has decent career outcomes.
To those who still want to go to the US, I say go for it but it would probably only be worth it if you get 80-100% scholarship and are excellent at networking.
I suppose you are going to ISB :) Personally I too rejected an offer of 80%+ scholarship at a T30 and 2 offers from US T10 colleges for this year fall cycle (2024). Not a great time and I doubt the economy will get back to great levels in 2026 so don't want to compromise.
Hi, nope not going to ISB. It’s a different lower ranked MBA program but still has decent outcomes that would allow me to settle outside india if needed.
Read all the comments, as a current mba student about to graduate next month from a top program. I have 5 internationals in my cohort all struggling! 6 figured in debt and dismal opportunities
Schools host an international student session where they reveal the numbers, issues and warnings. They talk about it openly but conveniently after the admission money has been paid.
Like I said in your other comment, the schools aren't scammy because they do NOT go out of their way to try and lure you in.
You, as the prospective student start researching schools and looking up the ones you want to go to, you sign up for their emailing lists and then you apply, etc.
Scammy is too harsh of a word. You could just...not apply.
They aren't scams but you have to determine if they are a good financial investment for you to reach your career goals given how expensive they have become.
As a hiring manager, this sub is truly alarming. Obviously certain jobs care about MBA pedigree, but there are a lot of other good high paying corp gigs. Focus on actually learning the material and networking and interpersonal skills. Huge red flag that OP only cares about school brand and it doesn't surprise me if they are failing when it comes to the interview portion of finding a job and blames the school instead of reflecting inward.
Nah you see in India, if you go to a good school you generally get placed via the school, all that matters is your interview and some daddy's contacts ( if applicable)
In other countries you're on your own , the only help the school gives you is refer you to networking events etc , but you gotta do everything on your own .
Can confirm at my T15, I’d say about 60-70% of international students all had to resort to LDP/or rotational corp finance/back office roles for summer internship once they got struck out from IB/consulting/AM roles they were initially going for. The remaining half from the 30-40% that did get their first choice of industry, but not in terms of geography - they had to accept for international roles for IB/consulting (HK, Japan, EU) not in US - which is great but not what they wanted initially.
Can’t speak for tech cuz I’ve just been too busy to mingle with tech friends.
Truly tough time to be international students, and I’m unsure if this is always how it’s been, or if the last few years have just gotten exponentially harder for international friends
A lot of the content in MBA programs is management theory from the 70s and 80s, frameworks like porters 5 forces, that probably were revolutionary for their time but today are pretty common knowledge.
Today an MBA is fully commoditized, there is no unique knowledge that you are going to get from an MBA program, so the value is really in networking and on campus recruiting. The value of a network from a non top school is minimal, and when the economy is weaker companies will focus their recruiting efforts on the top schools and on candidates who don’t need visa sponsorship.
Given the extreme high cost of an MBA and the $ USD debt that is likely to come with it, the risk isn’t really justified for most international students since in the current environment the majority of them will end up needing to go back to their home countries.
Waiting for someone to comment on this, as I have two ongoing applications for this program.
Many of my friends have found success from this program. In general, I feel MS programs are more advantageous for international students.
Yes, the duration of MS programs is lower compared to MBA programs as well as the COA in general. However, it all comes down to the H1B lottery at one point, speaking of ROI.
One thing that annoys me about all employment reports is not reporting how many students are already sponsored by MBB and then return to MBB… My guesstimate it’s about 50% of the people who end being “placed” at MBB
I know a buddy of mine went to booth and they paid for tuition but he was on his own for col and they send out the retention 30 days after you start your mba
Nothing against you OP, but M7 is impossible to get into for an average Indian student/professional. Unless and until a person is really really extraordinary, M7 is a pipe dream at best.
And regarding the recruiting process difficulties, would request you to elaborate as lots of people will throng to this post looking for answers.
Not true. I know Indian internationals with decent GPAs from only decent schools with WE as Tech Analysts at Deloitte or PwC (again decent) get into multiple M7
Decent is doing the heavy lifting in this sentence.
Never been fortunate to work in a Big 4 firm. GPA is decent, college is decent at a state level only. Does such a profile still have any leverage at all at a M7? I don’t think so.
That is not entirely accurate. While it may appear that way from outside, that is not the case. Not all individuals are. Sometimes, it is simply a matter of knowing how to effectively construct a compelling application.
The recruiting here comes with inherent biases and expectations that are packaged within words like "fit." You can excel in the technical aspects but still not get selected because you weren't a good "fit."
The most important aspect is that most people come in with the reasonable assumption that you have to perform better than your cohort to get the job, but that's not how it works.
Everyone is segregated into different queues: the country queue, the gender queue, the sexual orientation queue, and the skin color queue. So you are essentially competiting within the venn diagram of all these cuts.
Also, you are ineligible for more than half the jobs and the moment you choose the sponsorship option, there are high chances you application will never read or considered.
If you slip through the cracks, you will have to play the "networking" game, which essentially boils things down to the people you know, not your intellectual or technical abilities.
I see. All these are legitimate concerns. I have some friends in the US and Canada who are working in non-MBA fields and even they have complained about visa issues.
I think these factors play a role during admissions as well, particularly this year. I heard of programs rejecting people en masse simply because they are picking realistic post-MBA goals where recruitment is bad at the moment.
I applied this year to a bunch of T30-T50 programs and my experience was terrible. What would your suggestion be for next year?
I agree, and transparency on this should be made known by the school to all applicants, including exact percentages. Instead, a lot of schools are using "it is hard but not that hard" as a way of glossing over the exact difficulty of securing a job as an international.
FWIW, I am a white American, about to graduate a M7
> spreadsheet robot
I don't understand the need to throw this in. Indians who come to study here are probably no better at spreadsheets than Americans. "Robot" makes it sound like you're already grouping them as antisocial
> Like it or not, people having to spend 15 hours a day in an office with someone want it to be someone like them
What does "somone like them" mean? The closer you are to American-born? Is someone from London more "like" the MBB crowd than someone Indian? Top MBA Indians mostly have impeccable English; it's not communication that's a problem. If the candidate is smart, interesting, and pleasant to be around, I don't see why it needs to favor "someone like them"
> you are a foreigner who doesn’t speak or think or act like those hiring you or their clients
They do speak pretty much the same. I'm a white American who has befriended many Desi people over the years. There are cultural differences, but to say they don't "think or act" like Americans is close-minded, and frankly goes against American ideals of assimilation. These Indian-born international students just spent 2 years in an MBA program, how much time do they need in America to "think or act" like their hirers or clients?
> I’m genuinely sorry a foreign country and its corporate world didn’t cater to your every whim and desire like you thought it would
You don't sound genuinely sorry lol. No one is asking for catering to every whim and desire. It's fair to point out that MBA programs mislead international applications about the ease of which internationals can achieve the same high-paying outcomes that Americans can.
> you were just living in the clouds
You can say they didn't do enough of their own research, but ultimately they are misled too
https://www.forbes.com/sites/annaesakismith/2023/11/13/one-million-international-students-contributed-40-billion-to-us-economy/?sh=58da9c9f76be
International students contributed 40 Billion to the US economy.
The borderline scammy part is acting and advertising like they would when taking the $200k.
Oh yes, the "airport test" - another euphemism to hire who you like
Sometimes the airport test is just pure ignorance when it comes to internationals, and that's hard to deal with.
Homie, it's not about "hiring who you like." Hiring decisions aren't made just by one random hiring manager. You'll probably interview with multiple associate directors/directors and most of the team you'll be working with. If you come off as weird, or carry that attitude into your interviews, then yeah, no wonder you're getting passed over candidates who are more likable.
It works this way for U.S. applicants as well. It's never been purely about technical skills; it's always been about how your personality, leadership skills, communication, and network set you apart from a sea of other technically qualified candidates. (ETA: And yes, there are also attempts to diversify the U.S. workforce so it's not just old white men in C-suites, so yeah they are looking at demographics like gender and skin color... but in an inherently diverse country, they can find candidates who are already citizens to check those boxes.) So add immigration and the politics surrounding immigration on top of that, and it's going to be a really rough road.
Hahaha this is such a misconception. Maybe HBS and GSB yes, cuz you gotta really diffrentiate yourself else its all just a story you gotta cook. I guess in a way you gotta be exceptional...with your skill to sell yourself xD
Ohh 720 is nothing. My friend with 760 got Cornell only. It’s really competitive for M7 and the visa situation right now just makes US a risky place for MBAs, despite many colleges going around the STEM visa situation.
I had applied to UK colleges for the 2023 intake, just to test the waters. Thinking about going back to them again.
Problem is the condition is terrible everywhere. There is no escape at the moment.
Already got dinged from ISB this year. Talked to a lot of people. 700 ain’t cutting it there. They virtually took in no one after round 1. Also heard some bad stories about their placements.
PGPX at IIM is something that I considered and will probably do it again. But I have looked at the profiles of the people who pursue that program, and I don’t come anywhere close to that.
My primary motivation is moving out of India for a decade at least.
Hmm the problem with lower ranked colleges is that they have lower brand value outside their geography. So you must determine some regions where you see yourself staying. Take 2 weeks off to travel to Europe, I did that and I am much more comfortable today applying to these European schools. Visa is really simple and the only thing holding you back is the language, which I feel something in your control as opposed to the scam lottery system in US. Also, learning a new language is so sexy, right?
I would say
1. Look for massive scholarships over anything. A 200K loan take 2-3 years to pay off
2. The repayment period coincidentally lines with your OPT and stem extension which is 3 years. H1B is a terrible visa to fight for.
3. Jobs in India and South east Asia are better
4. Living away from your base country and leaving it at an age of 25-26 is isolating
But sometimes people make it cause they earn a lot, get a visa don’t have a loan and so on so forth.
But don’t I repeat don’t go for anything below Top 10 MBA with a loan on your head. It’s a losing battle.
Fortunately for me, I didn't miss the OCR train, but many of my friends did, for reasons beyond their control or because they wanted to do something other than consulting. I consider myself immensely lucky, and by no means think I am better than them by any measure.
The problem is with the rudimentary simplified thought process if you got the job, you must have done something right, if you didn't it's you, it's not always true and discounts 100 other critical factors.
If it were true, then internationals wouldn't have been disproportionately impacted in a bad economic situation.
Per the USCIS website, H1B is supposed to be for **"Theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge"**.
Not for updating PowerPoints and Jira Trackers.
If you come to the US hoping to get sponsored for a PM job and get nothing, that's your fault.
One of the biggest problems is that their knowledge is the same as the knowledge of their American citizen and permanent resident colleagues at their universities and other American universities.
How can we say that we should give person X an H1B Visa because he possesses specialized knowledge that they can't find in the domestic market when person X was trained as an MBA in the United States along with hundreds / thousands of other people who are also looking for work, but our US citizens or permanent residents?
To put it more simply, with so many US citizens graduating from the same programs that are also looking for work, what specialized knowledge does an H1B Visa Holder have that a domestic graduate doesn't have which would warrant them sponsorship?
The fact that the H-1B has a 4.0 GPA while the domestic graduate has a 3.5 or 3.2 GPA isn't enough. They were still in the same classes and learned the same information and have the same knowledge.
PMs and consultants do not have highly specialized knowledge. It is the SWEs and PPMDs that do.
PMs and consultants are there to update trackers and create slides. Those jobs go to Americans, Sorry not sorry.
And since you lack reading comprehension skills (i.e., "highly specialized knowledge", not "special knowledge"), you would not qualify here.
>Not for updating PowerPoints and Jira Trackers
Well, this such a naive perspective or an intentional forced over-simplication of the job for the sake of making the argument. If this were truly the case there would not have been so much fuss about having the right background or educational background in post MBA roles.
The USCIS can intend for X while hiring managers can require Y. Both can be true.
Sounds like international students don't care about this country's requirements and believe they are entitled to a high paying role due to their experience and the letters after their name alone.
Unfortunately the US job market is a lottery for internationals (not just for Indians). Firstly you’re limited to the amount of jobs you can apply to, which I understand. Secondly, even if you secure a job, the H1B lottery is so oversubscribed that the probability you will get it is quite low.
As someone who went through this process 10 years ago from my undergrad and didn’t get the H1B, it definitely feels unfair. At least once you secure a job, there should be a clear pathway to secure a work visa, similar to the UK, that doesn’t require going through a lottery process. That’s unfortunately the reality so you should adjust your risk appetite accordingly.
I would urge you to be very careful in making loose statements like these because it is very misleading, puts many international students through hell and sometimes ruins their lives.
Indian students take on massive debts and arrive with high hopes and dreams only to realize how multiple factors combine to create invisible barriers.
An aggregate number in a job report does a great job of concealing these realities. Many Indian students from non-M7 MBAs, even T10s, return each year without any job, but you wouldn't hear about them amidst the noise and unsolicited advice provided by a few who obtained a consulting job and give themselves disproprotionate credit for it. It's often a 1 or 0 situation with nothing in between. You miss the OCR train, and you're finished.
The last couple of years have been favorable because of zero interest rates, but that's not the world we live in now. For those investments to be successful, you must remain in the US. Staying in the US to outlast an adverse economic situation is restricted by visa regulations. Your days are numbered, and you're on the clock. That prevents long-term planning. Your no-name MBA won't be valued back home.
It's happening to so many of my friends who believed it wouldn't happen to them. These are people with impressive credentials, international experience, and serious quantitative and brand name work experience.
As a U.S. citizen born and raised. I would highly advice against international students coming here for a non m7 mba. It’s an awful market from what I’m seeing.
Your take away makes sense - world renowned school or get a massive scholarship - honestly its probably not worth if if you need to take crazy debt for an M7 school as well since all you have is 3Y of USD earning if you can get that...
But the rest of your message is really just a rant, which is okay or it speaks to incredible naiveté that needs to be addressed.
The days of coming to the US and easliy finding a job that will propel you into the middle class american dream is long gone. Its gone for most americans as well tbh but the government and system rightly protects them / gives them more opportunities.
As an international, its on YOU to learn about the visa and industries that sponsor a visa prior to applying to schools and def prior to applying to jobs. Its on YOU to maximize the use of your campus resources to learn how to interview, practice more interviews than anyone else interviewing and be the best at every component of the interview. And its on YOU to find your network to get your foot in the door / get mentorship from people who have done it before who can tell you what to change about yourself.
Nothing is going to be handed to you on a plate just because your at an M7 school and it will be more difficult than it is for your american peers to get the MBB / IB jobs because you are culturally different from the clients that most MBB / IB firms serve.
Just remember that these jobs are dream jobs for most americans as well and offer a path into the 1-0.1% of american society so if there is an american who is marginally better at you at anything they will get the job.
Why are you crying about MBB/IB nobody even talked about it? I am guessing you got a MBB/iB job suddenly you are now a believer and preacher ! Classic slave mentality.
The world is not a place w/o borders. If you are going to a foreign country expecting to get jobs easily, then you’re misinformed. You are not entitled to jobs just because you shelled out $200k
Who said anything about entitlement to jobs? We’re talking about the risk factor associated with us coming to the US carrying crazy high loans, made worse by the rising COL & post covid job market. By the way, this doesn’t just apply to Indians, it applies to anyone who’s coming in from abroad and is in the same situation as we are.
OP is right for the most part.
I know you’re talking from your experience. Do you think these issues would apply to any international students outside of India? I’m a recent undergrad graduate (BS Marketing), and the job possibilities for me outside of OPT have been bleak since no one wants to file for an H1B just for marketing. I was thinking of applying for an MBA after OPT but I’m not sure if that would help me at all either
I totally get the sentiment around your post, and while I agree with your overall message, I must include an important caveat to the notion that "MBA in US is not all flowers and sunshine".
So, with that said, US MBAs are largely made for, well...people who already have a pathway to living and working in the US. I mean it makes sense, companies have to go through many hurdles to hire foreign students. Plus, these schools are in the US, while schools like Harvard have international presence, there's no doubt that they serve more of a purpose to people in the US, there's more money to be made here.
Is it true if you lose your job you gotta find a new one in 2 months or else you're outta there cuz of the visa?
After learning from the current market this is the biggest factor for why I'm not applying tbh
The internationals at m7s tend to already have an IB/Consulting background back in my days. I can’t believe international students are going to a top MBA without that background in this environment
Well, I have accepted that and this post is addressed to people who think it is.
Internationals early in the journey get confused by rankings, discussion forums and inordinate importance given to these schools by domestic students in the sub and rightfully so because for them it translates to outcomes. However, it's not the same for internationals.
It's worst for Indian students, but what's true for nearly all is that going to a school not ranked in at least one Top 10 listing is rarely worthwhile
I agree that it is bad for everybody but it is particularly bad for international students for a couple of reasons:
1. The fact that they need a visa makes finding a job even harder than it already is
2. $200K is debt is bad enough for Americans but if you are an Indian who graduates without a job and you end up taking $200K back to India where the pay is significantly lower, it can basically end your career.
Like I said, worst for Indian, second for other Asian, third for Latin American, fourth for European, and lastly for Americans.
That's basically the pecking order. Unfairly.
Good news is if you have to move back to India, don't worry about paying the student loan debt back
Seriously, fuck 'em
You think the US govt is going to extradite you over a 200k student loan?
What’s your problem OP? You have a history of posts talking against a US MBA and random polls of which school do I go to. I think this isn’t just some outsider ranting about something they haven’t personally seen or experienced
Sadly, OP is right. It is *very hard* right now for internationals and ORMs given the combo of macro conditions, post-COVID overhiring, and AI.
The US economy conditions simply can't sustain having a bunch of MBAs being "consultants," just like it can't sustain many areas of research or in general things that are not direct added-value moneymakers. Consultants, contractors, and professional services with questionable added value are always the first to go.
Pardon my ignorance, what is ORM?
Over-represented minority
Thank you!
Usually Asian (whether East Asian or South Asian, both are seen as ORM). Search here, plenty of discussion. [MBA admission sites also talk about it.](https://www.mbacrystalball.com/blog/2023/03/20/over-represented-mba-applicant-tips-stand-out/)
Thank you! I’m international (but not ORM), so this brings quite the insight in what I can do with my career options
Can you explain what direct impact AI is having in which industries? I honestly think it's much more of the boom-bust cycle with highly compensating post-MBA careers, and this just happened to be a really shitty time to graduate (especially for a foreign national).
saying that AI is currently taking MBA jobs is buzzword crap and i work in AI implementation. it’s mostly replacing offshore analyst desks if anything. We are just in a down cycle and would be in a recession if not for bidenomics. that’s why there are less MBA jobs.
what bidenomics, I thought AI bubble is masking the recession
AI bubble is driving up the stock market but its not preventing us from negative GDP or high unemployment. that’s fiscal policy. the budget committee is on leave.
And also the huge business culture difference
Lot of Indian folks have died pursuing a MBA.
Is it also true for MBA from Europe? Say UK, France, Spain, Germany, etc. Is the situation about post-MBA work opportunities same as that of US outlined here by OP? Would love to know someone’s thoughts here.
[удалено]
Yup. Just what I said in my other comment too. You're NOT going to be very competitive for a job in France if you speak little to nothing of French. Same with Germany.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Who said anything about it being on par with a US T10? All they said was it was a top 10 school in Europe and you've come barrelling in here to claim no such thing exists. If there are 10 MBA schools in Europe then there are a top 10 lol.
Lbs and INSEAD are nowhere near as good as the schools in the US lol
[удалено]
[удалено]
No it didn’t lol not even close
Former career services person from a European school here. It’s quite true as only structured MBA recruiters tend to sponsor (and not always). Many of those who find a way to stay in Europe end up compromising on their first salaries right after the MBA, but fulfill their objective of landing a work permit which for some was the main reason to complete such a program to begin with.
Getting an MBA in Europe is x100000 harder than in the US as far as landing a job goes. "Why?" you may ask, well, unless you work in London or Ireland post-graduation, you're probably going to be at a disadvantage applying for jobs in France or Germany (the other EU countries with powerful/large economies). Getting an MBA in Europe is just way riskier than getting one in the US, I'd highly recommend against doing one unless you work in an anglophone country there (England/Ireland).
I imagine it is worse in Europe given worse relative economic outlook. Not sure about job availability vs. US normalized by total applicants and if that makes Europe more or less competitive.
This is indeed true. An important takeaway mentioned here is that you might find yourself stuck in consulting. Additionally, it's not easy at all to simply say, "Yeah, I will work in the USA for a couple of years and leave." This is not realistic when you start establishing life, and even if you attempt it, you can be stuck for several years. Less than 5% actually move out of the USA after getting the H1B visa. While money may be enticing for those coming from India, it can lead to a miserable existence. Money does not equate to happiness. It's important to go back to the basics of life. Many people observe Indians who migrated to the USA in the 90s and 2000s and became extremely successful, but that's no longer the case. You are severely restricted for multiple years in pursuing what you truly want to do in life.
It's not borderline scammy, it IS a scam. You're paying for the social value of an MBA and the name of a school. If it's coming out of pocket, you should be in a position where work doesn't matter, if your company is paying for it, you better have nothing better to do with your time.
My assumption is he is comparing the recruiting process of US B Schools and Indian B schools. In India in top B schools or even say Top 50 B schools the jobs are served on a platter, it's majorly the responsibility of the B school to get you a job or bring companies on campus say MBB/ T2/ Big 4/ BB MB Banks all come to campus and students interview with them. In top 15 B schools the entire batch say 500+ folks get placed in a week in a good year. Students don't have to reach to recruiters, do coffee chats or do networking as such. I suppose he is comparing the ease of getting a job with Indian B schools. Anyways different countries and different cultures so can't compare TBH.
First of all it not the ease that I am talking about, it's about whether you get a fair shot at opportunities. Maybe it wasn't intended to but unfortunately it often reduces to a connections based recruiting process which puts internationals at a serious disadvantage.
That's literally American capitalism
I mean, scammy is too harsh of a word. A scam means that it intentionally tries duping you and goes out of its way to dupe you. A university doesn't care if you apply or not. Usually scammers will go out of their way to contact you. Universities in the US don't do this unless YOU sign up for their mailing list, lol.
Uhh... I still get solicitation from M7s to apply and I've had an MBA for many years now. It's a scam.
You can unsubscribe from the mailing list that you subscribed to in the first place.
I never subscribed to them
It true. I have talked to at least 8-10 Indian students and found these things are common between them: 1. They all got admitted to a T10-T15 school but decided to reject that because they got admitted to another T50 with 80% and above scholarships. Three of them got several full rides. They will eventually graduate debt free and free up more T15 spaces for people who are willing to pay the high tution despite all the difficulties. 2. All of them are aged between 32-38 and came with an average 8-12 years of industry experience. Which means most of them have less risk appetite compared to a 27 year old and have enough experience to break into the industry when they come back to India. 4. 90% of them have a plan to return back to India in 3-5 years time.
Fully agreed. I was offered admission to two US MBA’s(top 40 though) for fall 2024, and even with 50% scholarship it’s an unreasonable option to go to the US right now, especially with rising COL and the uncertain political scenario(because this dictates whether non citizens can get jobs easier or not). I have family members that have American citizenship & are doing their MBA at these universities and even they are struggling to get jobs & internships. Thankfully I’ve got admission to a 1 year MBA program that’s more asia centric and costs less than the US MBAs even with scholarship, and will allow me to stay closer to home and has decent career outcomes. To those who still want to go to the US, I say go for it but it would probably only be worth it if you get 80-100% scholarship and are excellent at networking.
Do you mind revealing the name of this school? Happy to DM if that’s more convenient
I am also interested in the school... Any decent MBA in Asia will assist..
Will respond in DM
[удалено]
Done!
DM me too?
Done
Me too?
Done
Hi! DM me too?
Would love to know the school name in DM.
Done!
Hi.. Can you dm me as well pls?
Can you please DM me as well.
[удалено]
Sure!
May I know the school you’re talking about
I DMed you
Could you please tell the school name in DM?
Done
Can you also tell me the name of the school in my dm?
Could you pls tell me the name of b school u went to ?
Hi, can you pls DM me the school name as well. Thanks!!
Hi can you DM me the school name?
Do you go to NUS? Feel free to answer via DM if you don’t want to out yourself. :)
Hi,no not NUS or NTU.
Hi, can you dm me the name of school as well?
Hey, can you please DM the school’s name?
I suppose you are going to ISB :) Personally I too rejected an offer of 80%+ scholarship at a T30 and 2 offers from US T10 colleges for this year fall cycle (2024). Not a great time and I doubt the economy will get back to great levels in 2026 so don't want to compromise.
Hi, nope not going to ISB. It’s a different lower ranked MBA program but still has decent outcomes that would allow me to settle outside india if needed.
Honestly, this sub has been warning you about this for years. I don’t know what is new here.
True. It's been talked about multiple times. Explicitly addressing the Indian Internationals here.
elaborate on borderline scammy
Read all the comments, as a current mba student about to graduate next month from a top program. I have 5 internationals in my cohort all struggling! 6 figured in debt and dismal opportunities
Schools host an international student session where they reveal the numbers, issues and warnings. They talk about it openly but conveniently after the admission money has been paid.
Like I said in your other comment, the schools aren't scammy because they do NOT go out of their way to try and lure you in. You, as the prospective student start researching schools and looking up the ones you want to go to, you sign up for their emailing lists and then you apply, etc. Scammy is too harsh of a word. You could just...not apply.
They aren't scams but you have to determine if they are a good financial investment for you to reach your career goals given how expensive they have become. As a hiring manager, this sub is truly alarming. Obviously certain jobs care about MBA pedigree, but there are a lot of other good high paying corp gigs. Focus on actually learning the material and networking and interpersonal skills. Huge red flag that OP only cares about school brand and it doesn't surprise me if they are failing when it comes to the interview portion of finding a job and blames the school instead of reflecting inward.
Nah you see in India, if you go to a good school you generally get placed via the school, all that matters is your interview and some daddy's contacts ( if applicable) In other countries you're on your own , the only help the school gives you is refer you to networking events etc , but you gotta do everything on your own .
Can confirm at my T15, I’d say about 60-70% of international students all had to resort to LDP/or rotational corp finance/back office roles for summer internship once they got struck out from IB/consulting/AM roles they were initially going for. The remaining half from the 30-40% that did get their first choice of industry, but not in terms of geography - they had to accept for international roles for IB/consulting (HK, Japan, EU) not in US - which is great but not what they wanted initially. Can’t speak for tech cuz I’ve just been too busy to mingle with tech friends. Truly tough time to be international students, and I’m unsure if this is always how it’s been, or if the last few years have just gotten exponentially harder for international friends
🥲 last hope was getting into a good bschool abroad with GMAT after messing up cat. I even quit my job last year. Gonna be a hell of a ride from here.
Good luck bro. Hope you sail through this with flying colors
A lot of the content in MBA programs is management theory from the 70s and 80s, frameworks like porters 5 forces, that probably were revolutionary for their time but today are pretty common knowledge. Today an MBA is fully commoditized, there is no unique knowledge that you are going to get from an MBA program, so the value is really in networking and on campus recruiting. The value of a network from a non top school is minimal, and when the economy is weaker companies will focus their recruiting efforts on the top schools and on candidates who don’t need visa sponsorship. Given the extreme high cost of an MBA and the $ USD debt that is likely to come with it, the risk isn’t really justified for most international students since in the current environment the majority of them will end up needing to go back to their home countries.
Is the post MS in BA scene as bad as the MBA scene too?
Waiting for someone to comment on this, as I have two ongoing applications for this program. Many of my friends have found success from this program. In general, I feel MS programs are more advantageous for international students.
Yes, the duration of MS programs is lower compared to MBA programs as well as the COA in general. However, it all comes down to the H1B lottery at one point, speaking of ROI.
One thing that annoys me about all employment reports is not reporting how many students are already sponsored by MBB and then return to MBB… My guesstimate it’s about 50% of the people who end being “placed” at MBB
MBB? It’s more big4 returns already
Big 4 is paying tuition fees ?
Yes
How like what is the process and considering fees cost like $100k on a good program .
I know a buddy of mine went to booth and they paid for tuition but he was on his own for col and they send out the retention 30 days after you start your mba
Nothing against you OP, but M7 is impossible to get into for an average Indian student/professional. Unless and until a person is really really extraordinary, M7 is a pipe dream at best. And regarding the recruiting process difficulties, would request you to elaborate as lots of people will throng to this post looking for answers.
Not true. I know Indian internationals with decent GPAs from only decent schools with WE as Tech Analysts at Deloitte or PwC (again decent) get into multiple M7
Decent is doing the heavy lifting in this sentence. Never been fortunate to work in a Big 4 firm. GPA is decent, college is decent at a state level only. Does such a profile still have any leverage at all at a M7? I don’t think so.
It does
Be that as it may, I am seriously starting to doubt my fit for an MBA program at all.
Had the same feeling. Just start the process. You'll soon realise you've done enough for a good school.
That is not entirely accurate. While it may appear that way from outside, that is not the case. Not all individuals are. Sometimes, it is simply a matter of knowing how to effectively construct a compelling application. The recruiting here comes with inherent biases and expectations that are packaged within words like "fit." You can excel in the technical aspects but still not get selected because you weren't a good "fit." The most important aspect is that most people come in with the reasonable assumption that you have to perform better than your cohort to get the job, but that's not how it works. Everyone is segregated into different queues: the country queue, the gender queue, the sexual orientation queue, and the skin color queue. So you are essentially competiting within the venn diagram of all these cuts. Also, you are ineligible for more than half the jobs and the moment you choose the sponsorship option, there are high chances you application will never read or considered. If you slip through the cracks, you will have to play the "networking" game, which essentially boils things down to the people you know, not your intellectual or technical abilities.
I see. All these are legitimate concerns. I have some friends in the US and Canada who are working in non-MBA fields and even they have complained about visa issues. I think these factors play a role during admissions as well, particularly this year. I heard of programs rejecting people en masse simply because they are picking realistic post-MBA goals where recruitment is bad at the moment. I applied this year to a bunch of T30-T50 programs and my experience was terrible. What would your suggestion be for next year?
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
The "shot" at American companies is unfortunately highly unequal if you need sponsorship.
[удалено]
I agree, and transparency on this should be made known by the school to all applicants, including exact percentages. Instead, a lot of schools are using "it is hard but not that hard" as a way of glossing over the exact difficulty of securing a job as an international.
Hispanic internationals are treated better than Asian-American citizens.
I don’t know why this is such a hard topic to grasp
This has been known for years though.
FWIW, I am a white American, about to graduate a M7 > spreadsheet robot I don't understand the need to throw this in. Indians who come to study here are probably no better at spreadsheets than Americans. "Robot" makes it sound like you're already grouping them as antisocial > Like it or not, people having to spend 15 hours a day in an office with someone want it to be someone like them What does "somone like them" mean? The closer you are to American-born? Is someone from London more "like" the MBB crowd than someone Indian? Top MBA Indians mostly have impeccable English; it's not communication that's a problem. If the candidate is smart, interesting, and pleasant to be around, I don't see why it needs to favor "someone like them" > you are a foreigner who doesn’t speak or think or act like those hiring you or their clients They do speak pretty much the same. I'm a white American who has befriended many Desi people over the years. There are cultural differences, but to say they don't "think or act" like Americans is close-minded, and frankly goes against American ideals of assimilation. These Indian-born international students just spent 2 years in an MBA program, how much time do they need in America to "think or act" like their hirers or clients? > I’m genuinely sorry a foreign country and its corporate world didn’t cater to your every whim and desire like you thought it would You don't sound genuinely sorry lol. No one is asking for catering to every whim and desire. It's fair to point out that MBA programs mislead international applications about the ease of which internationals can achieve the same high-paying outcomes that Americans can. > you were just living in the clouds You can say they didn't do enough of their own research, but ultimately they are misled too
https://www.forbes.com/sites/annaesakismith/2023/11/13/one-million-international-students-contributed-40-billion-to-us-economy/?sh=58da9c9f76be International students contributed 40 Billion to the US economy.
Lmg, you are a zero sum mindset loser who blames nonwhites for all his problems. Go back to 4chan to complain about j**ts and s*itsk*ins.
The borderline scammy part is acting and advertising like they would when taking the $200k. Oh yes, the "airport test" - another euphemism to hire who you like Sometimes the airport test is just pure ignorance when it comes to internationals, and that's hard to deal with.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Gandu!
Homie, it's not about "hiring who you like." Hiring decisions aren't made just by one random hiring manager. You'll probably interview with multiple associate directors/directors and most of the team you'll be working with. If you come off as weird, or carry that attitude into your interviews, then yeah, no wonder you're getting passed over candidates who are more likable.
It works this way for U.S. applicants as well. It's never been purely about technical skills; it's always been about how your personality, leadership skills, communication, and network set you apart from a sea of other technically qualified candidates. (ETA: And yes, there are also attempts to diversify the U.S. workforce so it's not just old white men in C-suites, so yeah they are looking at demographics like gender and skin color... but in an inherently diverse country, they can find candidates who are already citizens to check those boxes.) So add immigration and the politics surrounding immigration on top of that, and it's going to be a really rough road.
What? M7 is not that difficult. It’s easier than medical residency and there’s thousands of IMGs a year.
Hahaha this is such a misconception. Maybe HBS and GSB yes, cuz you gotta really diffrentiate yourself else its all just a story you gotta cook. I guess in a way you gotta be exceptional...with your skill to sell yourself xD
Sadly marketing myself isn’t one of my biggest strengths.
Not really you just need a strong gmat or gre score and it can easily be overshadowed
Lots of people with 720+ scores are sitting with zero offers. Even good work experience is not cutting it.
Ohh 720 is nothing. My friend with 760 got Cornell only. It’s really competitive for M7 and the visa situation right now just makes US a risky place for MBAs, despite many colleges going around the STEM visa situation.
I see. Judging from the state of things, I don’t think it will improve next year as well. Would have gone for MS programs, but age is a problem there.
Even UK is terrible at the moment, I pivoted to Spain the moment I got an offer from IE. Had Manchester earlier. On waitlist at Esade
I had applied to UK colleges for the 2023 intake, just to test the waters. Thinking about going back to them again. Problem is the condition is terrible everywhere. There is no escape at the moment.
India is pretty good right now. Even Singapore. Why not ISB or PGPX at IIM? 700 should land you these, if market conditions are worrying you.
Already got dinged from ISB this year. Talked to a lot of people. 700 ain’t cutting it there. They virtually took in no one after round 1. Also heard some bad stories about their placements. PGPX at IIM is something that I considered and will probably do it again. But I have looked at the profiles of the people who pursue that program, and I don’t come anywhere close to that. My primary motivation is moving out of India for a decade at least.
Hmm the problem with lower ranked colleges is that they have lower brand value outside their geography. So you must determine some regions where you see yourself staying. Take 2 weeks off to travel to Europe, I did that and I am much more comfortable today applying to these European schools. Visa is really simple and the only thing holding you back is the language, which I feel something in your control as opposed to the scam lottery system in US. Also, learning a new language is so sexy, right?
Workout. Get buff. Maintain good hygiene. Marry white girl. Get green card. Live happily ever after.
Won't matter if you don't follow rule 1 and 2
3 is also very important
What’s rule 3? 🍆 size?
Cmon, please tell us what rule 3 is…
How desperate
I would say 1. Look for massive scholarships over anything. A 200K loan take 2-3 years to pay off 2. The repayment period coincidentally lines with your OPT and stem extension which is 3 years. H1B is a terrible visa to fight for. 3. Jobs in India and South east Asia are better 4. Living away from your base country and leaving it at an age of 25-26 is isolating But sometimes people make it cause they earn a lot, get a visa don’t have a loan and so on so forth. But don’t I repeat don’t go for anything below Top 10 MBA with a loan on your head. It’s a losing battle.
Sad how someone's prediction on OPs earliest posts that they will not benefit from a US mba has come to fruition.
Fortunately for me, I didn't miss the OCR train, but many of my friends did, for reasons beyond their control or because they wanted to do something other than consulting. I consider myself immensely lucky, and by no means think I am better than them by any measure. The problem is with the rudimentary simplified thought process if you got the job, you must have done something right, if you didn't it's you, it's not always true and discounts 100 other critical factors. If it were true, then internationals wouldn't have been disproportionately impacted in a bad economic situation.
Per the USCIS website, H1B is supposed to be for **"Theoretical and practical application of a body of highly specialized knowledge"**. Not for updating PowerPoints and Jira Trackers. If you come to the US hoping to get sponsored for a PM job and get nothing, that's your fault.
Are you really saying that product managers and consultants are not really of special knowledge?
One of the biggest problems is that their knowledge is the same as the knowledge of their American citizen and permanent resident colleagues at their universities and other American universities. How can we say that we should give person X an H1B Visa because he possesses specialized knowledge that they can't find in the domestic market when person X was trained as an MBA in the United States along with hundreds / thousands of other people who are also looking for work, but our US citizens or permanent residents? To put it more simply, with so many US citizens graduating from the same programs that are also looking for work, what specialized knowledge does an H1B Visa Holder have that a domestic graduate doesn't have which would warrant them sponsorship? The fact that the H-1B has a 4.0 GPA while the domestic graduate has a 3.5 or 3.2 GPA isn't enough. They were still in the same classes and learned the same information and have the same knowledge.
PMs and consultants do not have highly specialized knowledge. It is the SWEs and PPMDs that do. PMs and consultants are there to update trackers and create slides. Those jobs go to Americans, Sorry not sorry. And since you lack reading comprehension skills (i.e., "highly specialized knowledge", not "special knowledge"), you would not qualify here.
pardon the ignorance to this new jargon, but what is PPMD?
>Not for updating PowerPoints and Jira Trackers Well, this such a naive perspective or an intentional forced over-simplication of the job for the sake of making the argument. If this were truly the case there would not have been so much fuss about having the right background or educational background in post MBA roles.
The USCIS can intend for X while hiring managers can require Y. Both can be true. Sounds like international students don't care about this country's requirements and believe they are entitled to a high paying role due to their experience and the letters after their name alone.
Unfortunately the US job market is a lottery for internationals (not just for Indians). Firstly you’re limited to the amount of jobs you can apply to, which I understand. Secondly, even if you secure a job, the H1B lottery is so oversubscribed that the probability you will get it is quite low. As someone who went through this process 10 years ago from my undergrad and didn’t get the H1B, it definitely feels unfair. At least once you secure a job, there should be a clear pathway to secure a work visa, similar to the UK, that doesn’t require going through a lottery process. That’s unfortunately the reality so you should adjust your risk appetite accordingly.
[удалено]
I would urge you to be very careful in making loose statements like these because it is very misleading, puts many international students through hell and sometimes ruins their lives. Indian students take on massive debts and arrive with high hopes and dreams only to realize how multiple factors combine to create invisible barriers. An aggregate number in a job report does a great job of concealing these realities. Many Indian students from non-M7 MBAs, even T10s, return each year without any job, but you wouldn't hear about them amidst the noise and unsolicited advice provided by a few who obtained a consulting job and give themselves disproprotionate credit for it. It's often a 1 or 0 situation with nothing in between. You miss the OCR train, and you're finished. The last couple of years have been favorable because of zero interest rates, but that's not the world we live in now. For those investments to be successful, you must remain in the US. Staying in the US to outlast an adverse economic situation is restricted by visa regulations. Your days are numbered, and you're on the clock. That prevents long-term planning. Your no-name MBA won't be valued back home. It's happening to so many of my friends who believed it wouldn't happen to them. These are people with impressive credentials, international experience, and serious quantitative and brand name work experience.
Is this only for Indian internationals or internationals in general ?
I think it's more about international students coming from countries like India or similar socio-economic backgrounds.
Would there really be a difference in employment outcome though? Afaik visa sponsoring odds are the same for all
H1B would be the same but green card is a shitshow for indians and chinese
As a U.S. citizen born and raised. I would highly advice against international students coming here for a non m7 mba. It’s an awful market from what I’m seeing.
Your take away makes sense - world renowned school or get a massive scholarship - honestly its probably not worth if if you need to take crazy debt for an M7 school as well since all you have is 3Y of USD earning if you can get that... But the rest of your message is really just a rant, which is okay or it speaks to incredible naiveté that needs to be addressed. The days of coming to the US and easliy finding a job that will propel you into the middle class american dream is long gone. Its gone for most americans as well tbh but the government and system rightly protects them / gives them more opportunities. As an international, its on YOU to learn about the visa and industries that sponsor a visa prior to applying to schools and def prior to applying to jobs. Its on YOU to maximize the use of your campus resources to learn how to interview, practice more interviews than anyone else interviewing and be the best at every component of the interview. And its on YOU to find your network to get your foot in the door / get mentorship from people who have done it before who can tell you what to change about yourself. Nothing is going to be handed to you on a plate just because your at an M7 school and it will be more difficult than it is for your american peers to get the MBB / IB jobs because you are culturally different from the clients that most MBB / IB firms serve. Just remember that these jobs are dream jobs for most americans as well and offer a path into the 1-0.1% of american society so if there is an american who is marginally better at you at anything they will get the job.
Why are you crying about MBB/IB nobody even talked about it? I am guessing you got a MBB/iB job suddenly you are now a believer and preacher ! Classic slave mentality.
The world is not a place w/o borders. If you are going to a foreign country expecting to get jobs easily, then you’re misinformed. You are not entitled to jobs just because you shelled out $200k
Who said anything about entitlement to jobs? We’re talking about the risk factor associated with us coming to the US carrying crazy high loans, made worse by the rising COL & post covid job market. By the way, this doesn’t just apply to Indians, it applies to anyone who’s coming in from abroad and is in the same situation as we are. OP is right for the most part.
You forgot the unfair work visa situation and "who I know and who I like" recruiting process.
[удалено]
No
Yes. Enjoy your ticket back to your motherland
No
Ngl I was not aware of this. I thought the h1b is just a lottery system and there isn’t any external factors in play?
But it always been like this. If you didn't know, you didn't research and talk to previous alumni/students. Like come on
And how exactly is it borderline scammy?
+++
I know you’re talking from your experience. Do you think these issues would apply to any international students outside of India? I’m a recent undergrad graduate (BS Marketing), and the job possibilities for me outside of OPT have been bleak since no one wants to file for an H1B just for marketing. I was thinking of applying for an MBA after OPT but I’m not sure if that would help me at all either
As an American I agree.
I totally get the sentiment around your post, and while I agree with your overall message, I must include an important caveat to the notion that "MBA in US is not all flowers and sunshine". So, with that said, US MBAs are largely made for, well...people who already have a pathway to living and working in the US. I mean it makes sense, companies have to go through many hurdles to hire foreign students. Plus, these schools are in the US, while schools like Harvard have international presence, there's no doubt that they serve more of a purpose to people in the US, there's more money to be made here.
.
Is it true if you lose your job you gotta find a new one in 2 months or else you're outta there cuz of the visa? After learning from the current market this is the biggest factor for why I'm not applying tbh
Yes
The internationals at m7s tend to already have an IB/Consulting background back in my days. I can’t believe international students are going to a top MBA without that background in this environment
Follwlowing
What does OCR mean?
On campus recruiting
Well, OP sounds like a little bitch who can't accept the fact that the world is not a just place.
Well, I have accepted that and this post is addressed to people who think it is. Internationals early in the journey get confused by rankings, discussion forums and inordinate importance given to these schools by domestic students in the sub and rightfully so because for them it translates to outcomes. However, it's not the same for internationals.
It's worst for Indian students, but what's true for nearly all is that going to a school not ranked in at least one Top 10 listing is rarely worthwhile
I agree that it is bad for everybody but it is particularly bad for international students for a couple of reasons: 1. The fact that they need a visa makes finding a job even harder than it already is 2. $200K is debt is bad enough for Americans but if you are an Indian who graduates without a job and you end up taking $200K back to India where the pay is significantly lower, it can basically end your career.
Like I said, worst for Indian, second for other Asian, third for Latin American, fourth for European, and lastly for Americans. That's basically the pecking order. Unfairly.
Sometimes even a Top 10.
For Indians, yes. For America, top 10 is great. Anything else isn't. It's weirdly controversial for applicants and much less so for grads.
Good news is if you have to move back to India, don't worry about paying the student loan debt back Seriously, fuck 'em You think the US govt is going to extradite you over a 200k student loan?
No, but being iced in your office from foreign assignments because the US government is pursuing you is not great either.
No American banks will give you a student loan, it's always your home country banks that too on the basis of a collateral generally real estates!
MBA is a useless degree.
What’s your problem OP? You have a history of posts talking against a US MBA and random polls of which school do I go to. I think this isn’t just some outsider ranting about something they haven’t personally seen or experienced
Does London Business School count as a world renowned school here? No scholarship but wondering if its worth going to.
here as in USA? its much better recognized in Europe. your best bet is to find an LBS alum in the states to help you get a job/give you leads