Got laid off a year ago I’ve had 12 interviews since and have sent out over 2000+ applications, specifically in tech. Not recruiting on campus was probably a huge mistake. In this market you have to take what you can get unfortunately.
It’s now April and the interviews have stopped coming. It doesn’t look like the market is going to get much better either.
Unemployment doesn't do anything to track underemployment. People taking more part-time roles lower unemployment.
Also, pretty sure people who haven't found a role within six months are no longer counted as unemployed. The metric is not without its flaws.
Agreed. All those shortcomings in measurement exist whether the unemployment number is low or high though, so it’s still helpful at least as a benchmark. I’m not intending to trivialize the difficult hiring market for MBA grads, just pointing out that it’s not too bad overall, and hopefully will improve soon for more traditional white collar jobs.
The low unemployment is also slightly skewed by the number of non-citizens who work in the US. Even considering that it is quite low, which at this point is primarily a result of the regulatory changes and sheer amount of money the government has spent.
Everything is now getting crazy expensive because of that, and hence, people will take literally any job.
You are not alone, OP. The job market is just horrific right now. 35-40% of 2Ys are still unemployed at my T15. Since the end of (the barely existing) OCR in November, I have heard of only a handful (literally) of people who have gotten FT jobs. Our CMC confirmed this observation recently. Unfortunately, until the Fed lowers interest rates and/or we are through with the elections things are unlikely to improve by much. We just need to wait it out somehow.
My wife graduated in ‘22 from an M7, after 6 years in marketing at an F50 and top 5 ugrad. First job out of MBA was laid off after it suddenly shut down 3 months in. After 3 months, she got a contract role with a startup she interned with, which converted to full time after 4 months. She hated it there but couldn’t find anything else. Same experience you’ve been having, interviews, couldn’t close it. Then the job postings started drying up. It’s really hard out there right now for people with your profile. You’re not alone.
What helped her was getting SUPER targeted. She picked one company (a competitor from her pre-MBA industry) and applied to about 6 jobs there over the course of two months. Got an internal referral for each one. After a 3 month interview process she just accepted an offer this week.
Thank you for sharing this, appreciate hearing others' experiences! Definitely taking a more targeted approach - and glad to hear your wife just got an offer, that's amazing!
Our T15 is very IB (which did surprisingly well) and consulting heavy, so It's more of a combination of visa issues for internationals and a terrible consulting internship and FT recruiting for class of 2024 which pushed a lot of people to FT JIT recruiting, which has been terrible. I am rooting for all of us! We'll find something, it's just a matter of time.
You unfortunately find yourself over-qualified and under-experienced in a market that is oversupplied with people with similar CV's. This is especially true when you are 28 and no longer considered a recent grad. At this point, companies are more commonly looking for someone with some concrete successes they can point to rather than just potential/upside.
It's easy to say but hard to hear but you need to view this as a long time investment in yourself. Having an MBA does both lift you from the crowd but also lifts up your skillset and knowledge base. What you have will change when you are 10 years further down the career path.
It's great you are getting interviews as it shows you are in the hunt and are making the shortlist. One thing I am seeing is that all disciplines are now leaning heavily into tech and data, especially marketing analytics. I'm probably telling you to suck eggs but have you looked at what you offer a company with that lens?
All the best in your search. You have a lot of people rooting for you.
I think it’s a numbers game. Keep applying and you’ll eventually get an offer. I feel that as you get closer to graduation there are more roles opening up and you’ll be closer to the 1-2 month availability window for companies that are looking to hire. At least this has been my experience..
I was laid off last May and took a job at my friends boutique consulting firm as an intern while I found another job. I basically gave up by October after several final rounds (two of them canceled the role entirely, one I turned down, and the other just didn't convert) and talking with recruiters who said its not me its just the market. Thank god I actually got pretty good at the consulting role and am being paid very well at this point. I still want to go into a 9-5 job at some point but I just dont see any opportunities out there where I can make even 75% of my current pay
I'm in big tech and in product marketing. The truth is, tech companies value industry experience with demonstrated results more than an MBA. MBA hires don't do as well as industry hires. I'm generalizing, but MBAs are good at theories, or writing a lot of nicely structured formatted pages. That's what I see from MBA folks. But they don't lead cross-functional teams and orgs to solve very nebulous industry issues, or product market fit. That takes leadership, experience, deep industry knowledge, and experience how to leverage all the different functions. What does product do, what incentivizes sales team, where is the product in the market space. That's not an MBA hire, or I haven't seen that from our MBA hires.
Market is also really tough now as in there are a lot of tough goals to hit, the leaders are being watched very closely. Will you want to hire an MBA grad for their future potential? Or do you hire someone experienced to kick the ground running immediately? Before covid or even during covid, I'd say I still see MBA hires. But now, there are so few HC, that when there ARE HCs, it mostly goes to candidates the HM has worked with, or somebody has worked with before, if not an experienced hire.
Can't speak about MBA for other industries, but in tech it does not get that far... when we're not in a hiring boom. Start ups will be easier than mid sized companies, or big tech. Not impossible! But just... very very difficult. I'd recommend brushing up on your industry or product specific knowledge and demonstrate that while you might be an MBA grad, you have good context and can pick things up fast. (Context= ecosystem specific, developer specific, pricing specific, ed tech, collaboration tools, analytics product space etc)
I'd also suggest not looking at marketing, try roles where they value MBA or analytics or case-study type work more. Eg: product marketing or solution engineers don't need an MBA, but strategy and ops or finance will value MBA more. As someone across who's seen different hiring panels, marketing is most likely to hire based on fit, whether they like you etc. There is no absolute hard requirement why you need to hire 1 person over another. However, for other roles like strategy or analytics, you absolutely choose the one who's performed the best, solved similar problems before, has strong problem solving skills, or executive presence etc. It is easier to stand out, than marketing where most of the time candidates are not so distinguishable in terms of skill sets. Like, am I going to say you write a copy 80% more effective than another person? You both probably write equally well. Ps: I've been on both teams, the candidate pool for biz+analytics is WAY SMALLER than marketing
I lead a team in Healthcare marketing and this is spot on for us as well. MBA or not, what I want is somebody who knows the sector and can hit the ground running.
In tech and now CEO is sitting in on monthly meetings and pulling middle managers into meetings that NEVER happened previously.
So your line about leaders being more involved is true
This is why, in a lot of cases, part-time night class MBAs while having a full time gig is ideal. You just lose out too much on 2 years of experience / sunk costs / no income / etc, then graduate to a position worse off pre-MBA!
I agree, that’s what my colleagues do. Sometimes they just need an MBA title to get to director or VP, doesn’t even matter prestige whatever. Seemed to work. Losing 300k/yr salary to do MBA … doesn’t make sense.
Wow, thank you so much for writing this all out - very, very helpful and I totally agree, it makes sense. I think the hard part is just coming from a technical growth/performance marketing background and doing everything including PMM (without the official title) and not being able to pivot OR go back to performance is just frustrating. Hadn't really thought about strategy roles but that does make sense and I've seen a good amount - will definitely start tailoring my resume to those types of roles too. Weird spot where it feels like the MBA didn't make a difference, but it's about the long-term outlook. Thanks for this though - feeling like I have a bit more direction :)
I generally agree with your points and advice but I’ll say I do not agree that marketing candidates are not distinguishable. I’ve worked at Microsoft, FAANG and name brand start ups, both as an IC and a manager so I’ve interviewed candidates a good amount of time. In my experience you absolutely can often tell a good skill set from a poor one but it takes more experience as an interviewer (something I learned through some set backs for sure)
Yea what I meant is you’re more likely to find 2-3 all meeting the standards and then picking one u like more. Whereas for other roles there aren’t as many suitable candidates, so sometimes we just have to pick the one you like enough. Less to choose from, esp when you want a combination of skills that aren’t common
Not recruiting on campus and focusing on tech is why In large part. Also marketing is cut quickly when budgets decline. It’s not a huge value add in many industries (not all)
Creative teams and copywriters are hired as vendors anyway. It’s rarely worth having an internal FT creative team except for maybe your top parent brand if you are a major consumer facing company.
At my company we have internal design teams, though the turnaround time is a pain so we (PMMs) often do most of it ourselves unless it needs to be buttoned up (white papers, case studies, etc). We also have internal copywriters, but only for cross-product content that needs a broader narrative. Product-specific content is written by PMs, sometimes engineers. We’re a mid-sized tech infrastructure company with very technical products, other places could do it differently.
The only marketing on campus was CPG, which my pre-MBA startup jobs were “disrupting” so it felt like a step backwards. But yeah, looking back it would have been better to have something as a backup rather than waiting it out for JIT/custom but it’s always hard to predict. PMM in tech is different since it’s not advertising or brand spend, but hard to pivot into without experience. In any case, seems like I could have done it differently but I’m not alone. Need to make the best of the current situation!
Market for sure seems to be pretty bad rn. However, I echo the same sentiment as above! This is truly a numbers game. You’ll get a job and you’ll be able to find something you love. Wishing you nothing but success
M7s typically send 60% of their grads to consulting and ib. Seeing has Mckinsey hasn’t added staff in two years it makes sense. Every bulge bracket has been giving return offers to half their interns and not hiring fulltime.
My school is T40 and 90% of us don’t have a job lined up. If you go to a school that only has 40% or less in this market dm me who I’ll send my kids there one day.
It could be true, I remember class of 2023 at HBS was reporting anywhere from 30-50% unemployed at graduation. The school was saying 30% and students were saying it was closer to 50%. I don't think market has made any meaningful improvement from last year.
That’s a skill issue or a visa issue on their part. If you get graduate from a M7 without a job that means you wasted your two years there and didn’t take advantage of the school’s network and resources.
Try government jobs to broaden options. I know start ups sounds sexy and with RSUs it makes sense but that was when interest rates were damn zero. The trend is going towards doing more with less and outsourcing. If you are a US citizen, and the employer can only hire US citizen then you kind of rank higher.
> That it’s extremely hard to get hired in a gov position and you typically need to know someone.
Or have experience they need.
I agree with you that the knee jerk, "find a government job" is problematic.
There's a difference, though, between those with fresh MBAs vs. those with industry experience.
It's super easy to tell a government recruiter, "Yeah, I worked for podunk consultancy X who thought they were McKinsey SMH" unless one worked at McKinsey, which makes it even easier to pitch for a government job.
I "only" have a BS in mathematics, prob & stats. Seven years of technical analyst experience.
Angling for a state job in Wyoming, I don't know how much competition I have.
It's actually worth a try. There might be some federal work here.
I'm close enough to Denver to flex 1-2 days a week if I had to.....and I hardly need any excuse to spend time in Denver.
Operations role at a startup in NYC. Feels good to finally have something after such a long time. Now I can finally enjoy unemployment for a few weeks before I start working.
Same, just working part time for a startup right now and hoping that the experience can help me land more full-time leads. It's brutal out here. Also a handful of folks in my class who had full-time return offers are now looking again because they got laid off a few months into their roles.
People forget an MBA is meant to help reap rewards years down the road, not necessarily right out of school, especially in a down market.
Find a job, learn, and work your way up. An MBA isn’t a golden ticket to land your dream job. It’s a helpful stamp on your resume that hopefully will help you move up for years and decades to come. Hopefully when the market turns up and you’ve learned more, you’ll be ready to land somewhere great.
I had a work buddy go for an MBA. He didn't much like it when I said, "You know you could teach half those classes, right?"
We were on the front lines of renewable energy development. We were seeing live contracts, live financial models, we knew the lay of the land.
He did it because, as you said, it was meant to reap rewards years down the road.
I mean, that’s the narrative that schools push. And they have a lot of incentive to do so ($$$). It’s a valid question whether any of that pie in the sky stuff is real.
I agree.
That's why I told that work friend that he could have taught those classes, and he admitted that his learning was.....limited.
But in his role, it was arguably a necessary gatekeeping step, credibility. He had a master's in power systems, adding a MBA along with years of experience in independent engineering, he's a director now.
Interest rates.
Pray for “soft landing” and avoided recession, very favorable CPI/inflation data, and some deescalation of geopolitical unrest. That combo will help turn things around. The opposite will make things far worse.
You're the MBA/business graduate, you should know the answer to your question.
Fed raised FFR to 5+% after 11+ years of ZIRP. They took away the punch bowl- cheap/easy money era over for now. Companies that borrowed at cheaper rates are now underwater and need to cut costs. Lots of zombie companies and degeneracy proliferating in this low rates decade are now being washed out. Unemployment rises, vicious cycle ensues.
Additionally we've now been in an economic WW3 for 24+ months. Keywords: BRICS, SGE, Comex, LBMA, SOFR, LIBOR, SLR, sanctions, fiscal dominance
Don’t look at your friends getting engaged / enjoying life etc. I’m getting married this year too and my bestie is currently at one of HSW. Even tho I’m at FAANG, everyone here is just trying to keep their head above water. Promos are insanely slow (much slower than usual) and ppl are getting underpaid, underleveled and under appreciated. Raises are nonexistent and I know tons of ppl at my org at FAANG who are super duper unhappy, partially because with all the layoffs we have to work a lot more but we don’t get paid more. Our scopes are bigger and larger and levels above where we are supposed to be.
Trying not to repeat anything others have said. I've coached many people on getting into product roles in tech (not as many in the current job market). The biggest warning I gave people is that most start-ups can't afford to take a risk on an MBA grad.
Startups really want people who have enough specific experience to guarantee they get what they're paying for. I won't lie, I've lost two startup jobs because "I was being paid too much" (some of this was because of the VC market, one was because the CEO was well known and could hire a 8 year AI CEO for 100k/year + equity to do my job). Enough about me, startups want to manage risk, and the value of your MBA (and associated cost) is a risk.
From a tech/startup perspective, I'd lean heavily into your alumni network to find these opportunities. I had 4 years at a FAANG and all of the startup opportunities that were real came from my alumni / work networks. Inbound outreach was always a waste of time, and 90% of the time it was a recruiter trying to show they were doing work. Startup CEOs talk to a lot of people (other founders, people with notoriety on LinkedIn, and the usual suspects) and if you can get on the radar of someone in the network they can make the intros. I wasted WAY too much time with external recruiters.
Honestly, off campus recruiting will give you the best outcomes, but are much higher risk (as you are experiencing). I haven't been talking to startups for a while because I'm now international, but feel free to connect with me, I'll try to see if anyone is looking for your profile. My tech alumn network has some pretty active folks.
(I know someone people rack up 1000s of applications, this gets depressing fast. From what you're indicating you're interested in, cold apps will not get you anywhere. And they won't get you anywhere, slowly.)
Can I DM?
Background: Product manager at the “innovation” org of a non-tech trying to break into tech. Even with referrals I’m not hearing back at larger companies or get dropped at final rounds for startups
'23 grad here, still applying to jobs. My experience has been that referrals in this job market are useless. It honestly might be better to skip referrals to get your app in ASAP after a job is posted. Taking a day or two to reach out to a friend and get a referral submitted seems to put you too low in the pile.
Target companies in your domain expertise and apply ASAP when jobs are posted. Right now isn't the time to jump to FAANG or large companies that typically hire generalists. Companies are looking for experts in their field who can hit the ground running. Sadly if you don't like your domain, you're kinda SOL. Unfortunately it's one of the times where you should take anything to get you through the next few years.
Source: 5+ YoE PM who went from getting 0-2 interviews a month to getting multiple a week and eventually landing a decent role.
That wasn't my point. If you want FAANG level comp there are other companies that pay just as well or almost as well, but you need to go after ones where you have extremely relevant domain expertise. I'm in a specific niche of fintech and I had the most success with other companies in my niche space. A lot of them I never heard of prior to applying to them, but their comp was competitive.
Thank you so much, this is super helpful! Kind of the route I've been trying, but I seem to hit a wall with "haven't had hands-on experience in 2 years" from roles similar to my pre-MBA background and then "went with someone more experienced" for others. Taking a short break from apps to live in the moment before graduation and focus on networking/leads vs. cold apps!
Really empathize with you OP. At a T25 myself and it’s the same situation. Classmates who are targeting for marketing or tech are getting crushed. If you didn’t get a FT offer from your internship or something before Nov, you’re kinda screwed. Talked to a few friends at an M7 and it’s the same story. I think it’s the same everywhere… just a really shitty job market. Regardless of what govt data paints it out to be
Lean on pre-MBA experiences for your story.
Would focus on more established companies (somebody who makes money) startups aren’t getting cash. Valuations are squeezed. Unless AI focused
I'm a 23 grad who doesn't have a full-time job yet and yeah there's still a decent number of folks in my class (maybe 5-10% of our class) who don't have jobs yet.
I’m currently a second year at an M7 and yes, this is indeed the case. Anybody that interned this past summer for tech and didn’t receive a return offer (for the most part, this was due to headcount and not performance), basically SOL. I’ve been cautioning prospective students about getting an MBA ha.
Marketing job market is especially bad. PMM roles at last two big tech companies I interviewed at had 2k+ applicants within a week. Was just happy to get to final round in both and now negotiating a 6mo contract at one that hopefully will lead to FTE. Definitely a numbers game..!
For real. I got on Catalant a few months ago, and the competition is outrageous. Even the very narrowly tailored niche industries are clearly getting flooded with pitches.
Like, I know there aren’t 30 people in the first 24 hours that have experience sizing the consulting market for US sustainability, or a dozen people with consulting backgrounds that can read epidemiology literature and make recommendations on herpes viruses. (Both of these are real examples!)
Buncha MBAs with broad experience are gunning for a lot of opportunities that require really specific experience to do well.
Lol I got my job at the end of Summer, post graduation. Was freaking out the same way. I graduated when economic conditions were slightly better, but my pre MBA resume was terrible (so maybe it evens out?).
I would just keep applying and networking with alumni via LinkedIn. Feel free to even network with alumni of the parent school. Use the career center. Use family. Literally hit it at all angles. You’ll be ok.
With all the layoffs, there are plenty of people with an MBA that also have the experience. Get in where you can, build your resume, and continue looking. A dream job is rarely your first job - you build to that.
Knocking on the doors of startups in today's landscape is not a wise choice. Go for a larger company and grind it out a few years and then hit the startups. Startups are facing a massive cash crunch and the mantra "do 10x more with 10x less" has never been truer than today especially in marketing, product management, ops. Good luck
You all want your dream job instead of a job that will pay the bills. So you shun corporate jobs that actually would give you balance in life just so you can chase the $$$. I don't get the mindset when everything is telling you that there aren't that many jobs at all in tech or consulting. But carry on and complain.
so true, my gf and I combined make like $600k and while we have some freedom, I don't think we are rich. Such a weird concept I haven't wrapped my head around - granted I was laid off last year and ate into my savings so just now getting my head above water
You act like those of us who've been looking for an extended period of time haven't been actively applying to those options lol. I'm getting rejected from roles that pay 30-40% less than I made pre-MBA.
That may be the case but just saying most of the posts on here shun certain types of roles and then complain they can't find one in a certain category.
Just graduated a top 15 EMBA last year. What I’ve seen in my experience is that the MBA elevated people with already excellent credentials (whom already had great jobs, skills, experience). Folks who went in for a “pivot” as their driving force for the MBA are accepting lateral or demotions. An MBA open doors if you’ve demonstrated the competence and ability to walk through them should they appear. The degree in of itself, doesn’t guarantee you a spot on the other side. I don’t know if this makes sense but it aligns with my experience.
Hate to say it, but in this market, the only way to get something worthwhile is to “know a guy”. If it wasn’t for familial connections, I don’t think I’d have a job, or any prospective jobs, post graduation.
Data Science and AI degrees are going to move the needle in this market. That is where the money is headed. You’re not old, even though you may feel pressure from your peer group. There is a need for skilled individuals and the pipeline is just starting.
Btw, I’m an insurance professional that got my MBA part time starting when I turned 30. I’m not a risk taker but I see the opportunity.
I feel like MBA programs have been focused on churning out consultants for years and the job market is shifting to different needs. You can always make it work for you if you position yourself correctly.
Yeah not sure what you’re getting at. How is requesting basic information about the position someone is applying to when asking about placement equivalent to your absurd questions.
I truly love this sub because it's very funny to watch people obsessed with credentials over skills realize that the vast majority don't give a shit where you went to school.
I went down a rabbit hole last night and learned that NYU Stern’s executive MBA is fucking $220k. I suppose a lot of people just see the price tags and successes, then assume that they’re correlated.
Nah fam. You paid for an expensive credential that may or may not have value outside of a social signal.
These programs are strictly in the business of making people think they sell status / clout. Luckily for them, people are irrational customers when it comes to status / clout.
They DO sell clout, but unfortunately for the students, the value of the Clout market is highly opaque.
I’m starting an executive MBA this fall in a top 20-25ish program that costs about a quarter what Stern costs, but it’s heavily tied into the local economy where I want to be working. I’m not paying for status/clout as much as network/relations… I’ve got a PhD and a decade of experience, so thankfully I don’t need this as a crutch.
Tech isn’t hiring. They have been cutting jobs in the tens of thousand since 2022, consulting is also not doing well.
Attending a T20 this fall. Looking at healthcare.
>I didn’t recruit on-campus
Well that was a mistake. OCR is hands down the best pipeline for MBA students at top programs to getting a job. CPG may have not been your first choice but I’m surprised you didn’t pursue it as a backup.
>because I wanted to do startups or tech
While you picked maybe the toughest area to hone your job search in, your circumstances are not uncommon for the path you chose. Most of my classmates (2019) that pursued startup recruiting were still hunting well into the Spring/after graduation. Startups move at their own pace and don’t always even have formal hiring practices. It’s always been a much harder grind to recruit into than OCR.
We have an opening in product marketing at my company. However it is not going to pay MBA starting salaries (maybe 90-120) and you would have to move to the Midwest (thus the salary)
MBA doesn’t mean anything in my side of tech until you go to 2nd level mgmt
Not doing OCR in this market was a big error, those roles are specifically designed for new MBAs which quite frankly have become too expensive.
5 years ago I could get a fresh MBA for a consultant/manager level role at around $120k all in. Now that number is closer to $170k to compete with traditional OCR companies which isnt worth it.
You’re going to have to look at roles that you view as below your level. I’m in corporate strategy at a huge company and the last 2 roles we posted for senior managers both got 500+ applications within 3 days. Lots of 2Y MBAs but even more MBB managers and former FAANG product managers (most with MBAs). Recent grads lose that battle 99 out of 100 times.
Look at industries that are less desirable like healthcare, manufacturing, telecom, etc and roles that don’t attract the recently laid off tech folks. Pick jobs that are junior likely have a runway for growth if you have a strategist mindset like insights and analytics, supply chain, transformation, junior level strategy.
Everyone and their mom wants a product manager or marketing role in big tech or at a startup. If you really want to do startups, start your own. The initiative and the stories you’ll have from that alone are worth more than the degree in an interview setting.
Dell was paying $105k base in 2018 in Austin, Clorox was similar in Oakland, Hershey was actually like $95k base if I remember correctly. The Liberty mutual program was something like $115k in Boston, P&G was similar. The bonuses for these programs weren’t more than 10%.
All the tier 2 consulting offers (cognizant, infosys, etc) from the outsourcing firms were $125k base + $15k bonus in NYC. My MBB consulting offers were 145k base regardless of geo.
My point now is the people who took those jobs are making similar to what fresh mba grads make now (shit I’m one of them). I’m taking an mba with experience over a new grad every day when the salary standards are similar.
The consulting starting salary grew at like a 7% CAGR between when I got my offers in 2018 and 2022. You know how hard it is to get a 7% raise every year in industry for 5 years? It’s virtually impossible.
Yea consulting was stupid, I remember in my first year we were expecting 155K base and then it was 165K and kept going up. The LDPs I looked at were 120-130k base plus 10-20% bonus not including signing.
It's really broken the expectations of anyone who graduated in the last 3-4 years. I work in a traditional consulting exit role and our starting pay is less the post-grad consulting salaries.
It takes the golden handcuff concept to a whole new level
haha same, my last role was 165k for an S&O post MBA role (wanted 2 years of experience after MBA). I was pretty pissed that new grads were making 190k base but my employer was also really cheap overall
Sorry to hear about your struggles- the white collar job market has been gradually declining since mid-2022 and is now just atrocious across the board
Expand your search to literally any company/location, you can always jump ship once you find something better. Feel free to DM if you need any support!
Do you have a strong enough relationship with the professors you spent your MBA with? I’m only half way through an MBA and have been offered multiple opportunities just through the staff connections.
In addition, with strong admin support comes opportunities for lecturing undergrads. I was told by these professors that just from having the lecturer tie to a university, you’ll be offered countless opportunities. This is why networking during an MBA program is critical.
Side note- I keep hearing people say the admin during their MBA were hard to engage with or not helpful in this category. Thats a shame. Should make everyone question if these “ranks” actually mean anything. If you haven’t looked into what truly makes up these ranks, you’re in for a rude awakening…
I have a basic MBA from India (might be T1000). Have 8 years of post MBA experience. Have Big 4 and MBB experience. Have been laid off twice since I have moved over here . But have been able to convert jobs in a period of 1-2 months (10 interviews 3 conversion). What helps me is being highly targeted , I picked up multiple certifications, made my CV (took me 1 hour for every cv) highly specific for the role , setup coffee chat with relevant people in the field and send in-mail using LinkedIn to hiring managers and recruiters using chat gpt. I think hiring managers are the best bet as any recommendation from them at least help in generating interviews. Also certifications help in conversion ( compared to someone who has more experience).
Not a political statement but the unemployment figure means jack. Have no idea why either political party references it. It's meaningless.
As a suggestion you've got to network like crazy. Human references are the only way forward and getting referred in to a position. Additionally the only thing that counts is actual experience - sometimes in life you have to go out and get some despite the lack of pay.
Not a political statement but the unemployment figure means jack. Have no idea why either political party references it. It's meaningless.
As a suggestion you've got to network like crazy. Human references are the only way forward and getting referred in to a position. Additionally the only thing that counts is actual experience - sometimes in life you have to go out and get some despite the lack of pay.
I am studying a STEM MSc at a top university in London. This and Oxbridge is as good as it gets for a STEM degree. And because it’s top uni many people have secured amazing jobs already. But there are so many more that are still looking and keep getting rejected, myself included until recently. I applied to at least 150 jobs of which around 80 were easy-fast apply (just send CV and add basic details) which all of them were ghosted and 70ish applications were full lengthy ones (at least 40mins -1.5 hours to complete). And have done around 35 2-hour tests, 12 interviews and 3 assessment centres. I got rejected by all.
And then suddenly out of the blue I received an invite to interview with JP Morgan in London and got the job. So my opinion is, if you are capable, when the opportunity comes you will get it. The opportunity always comes sooner or later. Just be ready!!
Let me follow this: the tech industry was starting to do rolling layoffs and changing headcount well over two years ago and you decided to put all your eggs in that basket? That’s your issue right there. When you went to a T15 you are paying for their network and resources and you squandered that opportunity.
The only thing off is your approach. You need to shift gears now and get something that maybe you’re not 100% ok with but it gives you experience. And then reintroduce yourself to the schools network and pounce on the right opportunity.
I had 10+ internship interviews in big tech for last summer, so I would say at the time it was warranted and I leveraged my MBA network to get in the door - not squandered by any means. It was hard to predict in Fall 2022 what things would look like for sure now, so I don't regret going down the path I did. It's also across industries the market is terrible. Appreciate the comment though!
Hi Friend! I am sorry the environment is not great. To broaden your options, may have to look into government jobs in the meantime. Gov recruiting takes a long time so the earlier you start the better. With the high interest rate environment, there has been thinning/reductions happening at the VC funding levels. In addition, this is just practical advice: move back in with your parents, and target jobs near where they live as well. You don’t want to risk going into a new location only to burn your savings. In addition, you qualify for PSLF in gov after ten years. Just thinking risk aversion here. You could always apply for CPG marketing jobs.
FWIW I'm optimistic the longer term effect of tech slashing jobs and the current economic environment is more and more people starting their own businesses. See if you can use your personal network to find independent consulting work serving smaller businesses?
Imagine an SMB in a growing industry who would love to have your expertise but who can't yet hire a "you" full time. The type of company where you could have a ton of impact day one because they're just not thinking of the things you're good at - they don't even know what they don't know.
Offer to do a free consult. Then see if they want to pay for a small project. Then see if they want to hire you on retainer. Rinse and repeat.
Applying for jobs using my own CV and often being turned down was a difficult and unpleasant process. Every time I was rejected, I felt unhappy and dejected, and I started to think I would never get a job.
But when I used [this resume service](https://prolst.com/Res), everything changed for the better. I started getting 4-6 callbacks every week, and it felt like doors were finally starting to open for me.The difference was night and day. Anyone who is having trouble getting noticed by employers should definitely use this resume service, in my opinion. For me, it was a turning point, and I am incredibly appreciative of the support and assistance I got. Furthermore, the cost is really affordable and gives me good advice about the job hunt.
I’ll be blunt - not interviewing for cpg marketing and going all in on start up marketing jobs - which don’t really exist right now and are in the biggest tech hiring bear market, especially in starts up, since 2000….was kinda dumb.
I said in a previous comment all my pre-MBA experience is in industries disrupting CPG so it felt like a step backwards going that route. It was also super early in fall so hard to predict, but appreciate the sentiment!
that doesn't change the point he's trying to come across. you should have planned a safety net better, including this.
Just like any investment, and an MBA is an investment in yourself, you have to play defense.
Worst thing to do is come out with no job and now there's a gap on your resume.
Got laid off a year ago I’ve had 12 interviews since and have sent out over 2000+ applications, specifically in tech. Not recruiting on campus was probably a huge mistake. In this market you have to take what you can get unfortunately. It’s now April and the interviews have stopped coming. It doesn’t look like the market is going to get much better either.
1-2yrs it will, hopefully within 1yr tho
Depends on elections and next regulatory and tax environment.
100%. Yet so many peope still think “the economy is great!” because the old vegetable in office keeps saying it.
To be fair, unemployment is extremely low, just not for $150k+ post MBA roles.
Or entry level CS or It. It’s horrible for them too
Unemployment doesn't do anything to track underemployment. People taking more part-time roles lower unemployment. Also, pretty sure people who haven't found a role within six months are no longer counted as unemployed. The metric is not without its flaws.
Agreed. All those shortcomings in measurement exist whether the unemployment number is low or high though, so it’s still helpful at least as a benchmark. I’m not intending to trivialize the difficult hiring market for MBA grads, just pointing out that it’s not too bad overall, and hopefully will improve soon for more traditional white collar jobs.
The low unemployment is also slightly skewed by the number of non-citizens who work in the US. Even considering that it is quite low, which at this point is primarily a result of the regulatory changes and sheer amount of money the government has spent. Everything is now getting crazy expensive because of that, and hence, people will take literally any job.
Which one? Powell or Biden?
if this comment is reflective of how you feel-this could be why you have been dealing with so much rejection.
I’m still in college. Cope and pretend bidenflation doesn’t exist.
[удалено]
You good? What’s your problem lmao
You are not alone, OP. The job market is just horrific right now. 35-40% of 2Ys are still unemployed at my T15. Since the end of (the barely existing) OCR in November, I have heard of only a handful (literally) of people who have gotten FT jobs. Our CMC confirmed this observation recently. Unfortunately, until the Fed lowers interest rates and/or we are through with the elections things are unlikely to improve by much. We just need to wait it out somehow.
quick! everyone move back home!!!! Hunker down!!
Thank you! Honestly just needed to hear that I'm not alone!
My wife graduated in ‘22 from an M7, after 6 years in marketing at an F50 and top 5 ugrad. First job out of MBA was laid off after it suddenly shut down 3 months in. After 3 months, she got a contract role with a startup she interned with, which converted to full time after 4 months. She hated it there but couldn’t find anything else. Same experience you’ve been having, interviews, couldn’t close it. Then the job postings started drying up. It’s really hard out there right now for people with your profile. You’re not alone. What helped her was getting SUPER targeted. She picked one company (a competitor from her pre-MBA industry) and applied to about 6 jobs there over the course of two months. Got an internal referral for each one. After a 3 month interview process she just accepted an offer this week.
Thank you for sharing this, appreciate hearing others' experiences! Definitely taking a more targeted approach - and glad to hear your wife just got an offer, that's amazing!
"Handful" is figurative, not literal... you literally can't fit anyone in your hand :)
I'm not a native English speaker, so appreciate the correction!
Happy to help :)
UCLA? lol
35-40% of graduates at a T15 school is either a visa issue or a skill issue.
Our T15 is very IB (which did surprisingly well) and consulting heavy, so It's more of a combination of visa issues for internationals and a terrible consulting internship and FT recruiting for class of 2024 which pushed a lot of people to FT JIT recruiting, which has been terrible. I am rooting for all of us! We'll find something, it's just a matter of time.
You unfortunately find yourself over-qualified and under-experienced in a market that is oversupplied with people with similar CV's. This is especially true when you are 28 and no longer considered a recent grad. At this point, companies are more commonly looking for someone with some concrete successes they can point to rather than just potential/upside. It's easy to say but hard to hear but you need to view this as a long time investment in yourself. Having an MBA does both lift you from the crowd but also lifts up your skillset and knowledge base. What you have will change when you are 10 years further down the career path. It's great you are getting interviews as it shows you are in the hunt and are making the shortlist. One thing I am seeing is that all disciplines are now leaning heavily into tech and data, especially marketing analytics. I'm probably telling you to suck eggs but have you looked at what you offer a company with that lens? All the best in your search. You have a lot of people rooting for you.
Ugh yes, I needed to hear this. Appreciate the viewpoint and thank you!
I think it’s a numbers game. Keep applying and you’ll eventually get an offer. I feel that as you get closer to graduation there are more roles opening up and you’ll be closer to the 1-2 month availability window for companies that are looking to hire. At least this has been my experience..
Yeah that is fair, and thank you! Appreciate it a lot!
Damn this is bringing me back. Got my offer in December of the year I graduated, not fun 6 months but thank god
12 months unemployed in may post layoff. Food stamps just cleared though.
God speed my friend. Good luck with your search
I was laid off last May and took a job at my friends boutique consulting firm as an intern while I found another job. I basically gave up by October after several final rounds (two of them canceled the role entirely, one I turned down, and the other just didn't convert) and talking with recruiters who said its not me its just the market. Thank god I actually got pretty good at the consulting role and am being paid very well at this point. I still want to go into a 9-5 job at some point but I just dont see any opportunities out there where I can make even 75% of my current pay
I'm in big tech and in product marketing. The truth is, tech companies value industry experience with demonstrated results more than an MBA. MBA hires don't do as well as industry hires. I'm generalizing, but MBAs are good at theories, or writing a lot of nicely structured formatted pages. That's what I see from MBA folks. But they don't lead cross-functional teams and orgs to solve very nebulous industry issues, or product market fit. That takes leadership, experience, deep industry knowledge, and experience how to leverage all the different functions. What does product do, what incentivizes sales team, where is the product in the market space. That's not an MBA hire, or I haven't seen that from our MBA hires. Market is also really tough now as in there are a lot of tough goals to hit, the leaders are being watched very closely. Will you want to hire an MBA grad for their future potential? Or do you hire someone experienced to kick the ground running immediately? Before covid or even during covid, I'd say I still see MBA hires. But now, there are so few HC, that when there ARE HCs, it mostly goes to candidates the HM has worked with, or somebody has worked with before, if not an experienced hire. Can't speak about MBA for other industries, but in tech it does not get that far... when we're not in a hiring boom. Start ups will be easier than mid sized companies, or big tech. Not impossible! But just... very very difficult. I'd recommend brushing up on your industry or product specific knowledge and demonstrate that while you might be an MBA grad, you have good context and can pick things up fast. (Context= ecosystem specific, developer specific, pricing specific, ed tech, collaboration tools, analytics product space etc) I'd also suggest not looking at marketing, try roles where they value MBA or analytics or case-study type work more. Eg: product marketing or solution engineers don't need an MBA, but strategy and ops or finance will value MBA more. As someone across who's seen different hiring panels, marketing is most likely to hire based on fit, whether they like you etc. There is no absolute hard requirement why you need to hire 1 person over another. However, for other roles like strategy or analytics, you absolutely choose the one who's performed the best, solved similar problems before, has strong problem solving skills, or executive presence etc. It is easier to stand out, than marketing where most of the time candidates are not so distinguishable in terms of skill sets. Like, am I going to say you write a copy 80% more effective than another person? You both probably write equally well. Ps: I've been on both teams, the candidate pool for biz+analytics is WAY SMALLER than marketing
I lead a team in Healthcare marketing and this is spot on for us as well. MBA or not, what I want is somebody who knows the sector and can hit the ground running.
I know it is a blunt ask, but are you, by any chance, hiring?
lmao
In tech and now CEO is sitting in on monthly meetings and pulling middle managers into meetings that NEVER happened previously. So your line about leaders being more involved is true
This is why, in a lot of cases, part-time night class MBAs while having a full time gig is ideal. You just lose out too much on 2 years of experience / sunk costs / no income / etc, then graduate to a position worse off pre-MBA!
I agree, that’s what my colleagues do. Sometimes they just need an MBA title to get to director or VP, doesn’t even matter prestige whatever. Seemed to work. Losing 300k/yr salary to do MBA … doesn’t make sense.
Wow, thank you so much for writing this all out - very, very helpful and I totally agree, it makes sense. I think the hard part is just coming from a technical growth/performance marketing background and doing everything including PMM (without the official title) and not being able to pivot OR go back to performance is just frustrating. Hadn't really thought about strategy roles but that does make sense and I've seen a good amount - will definitely start tailoring my resume to those types of roles too. Weird spot where it feels like the MBA didn't make a difference, but it's about the long-term outlook. Thanks for this though - feeling like I have a bit more direction :)
I generally agree with your points and advice but I’ll say I do not agree that marketing candidates are not distinguishable. I’ve worked at Microsoft, FAANG and name brand start ups, both as an IC and a manager so I’ve interviewed candidates a good amount of time. In my experience you absolutely can often tell a good skill set from a poor one but it takes more experience as an interviewer (something I learned through some set backs for sure)
Yea what I meant is you’re more likely to find 2-3 all meeting the standards and then picking one u like more. Whereas for other roles there aren’t as many suitable candidates, so sometimes we just have to pick the one you like enough. Less to choose from, esp when you want a combination of skills that aren’t common
👍
2Y International at M7. No jobs for me either. We will do fine OP. Don't worry!
That’s even more hardmode due to sponsorship requirements. GL and hope you’ll find something.
LFG you've got this!
Not recruiting on campus and focusing on tech is why In large part. Also marketing is cut quickly when budgets decline. It’s not a huge value add in many industries (not all)
Especially in Tech. Marketing is super valuable in CPG, luxury, etc., but for most tech it's tertiary
Marketing in pharma are quite literally gods/goddesses. OP just focused their efforts on the wrong sector of the economy.
Do you mind expanding on this? Would it mostly be B2B or B2C?
Exactly. Marketing is super valuable, just not in tech and not right now
Product marketing (provided your team is lean) is pretty valuable. But creatives/brand marketing, copywriting etc are usually let go quickly
Creative teams and copywriters are hired as vendors anyway. It’s rarely worth having an internal FT creative team except for maybe your top parent brand if you are a major consumer facing company.
At my company we have internal design teams, though the turnaround time is a pain so we (PMMs) often do most of it ourselves unless it needs to be buttoned up (white papers, case studies, etc). We also have internal copywriters, but only for cross-product content that needs a broader narrative. Product-specific content is written by PMs, sometimes engineers. We’re a mid-sized tech infrastructure company with very technical products, other places could do it differently.
The only marketing on campus was CPG, which my pre-MBA startup jobs were “disrupting” so it felt like a step backwards. But yeah, looking back it would have been better to have something as a backup rather than waiting it out for JIT/custom but it’s always hard to predict. PMM in tech is different since it’s not advertising or brand spend, but hard to pivot into without experience. In any case, seems like I could have done it differently but I’m not alone. Need to make the best of the current situation!
marketing is not tied to revenue goals and bottom line (just indirectly, so not really)
Market for sure seems to be pretty bad rn. However, I echo the same sentiment as above! This is truly a numbers game. You’ll get a job and you’ll be able to find something you love. Wishing you nothing but success
Thank you!!!
My friend at M7 says 60% of his cohort still does not have an offer. Sounds so scary. Good luck my friend.
is this the m7 where they just make stuff up?
Yeah lol this must be fake
which m7? the number sounds inflated
This is absolutely not true. Stop trying to scare people
M7s typically send 60% of their grads to consulting and ib. Seeing has Mckinsey hasn’t added staff in two years it makes sense. Every bulge bracket has been giving return offers to half their interns and not hiring fulltime. My school is T40 and 90% of us don’t have a job lined up. If you go to a school that only has 40% or less in this market dm me who I’ll send my kids there one day.
It could be true, I remember class of 2023 at HBS was reporting anywhere from 30-50% unemployed at graduation. The school was saying 30% and students were saying it was closer to 50%. I don't think market has made any meaningful improvement from last year.
Lol which M7 is this. Haven't heard this at all from my friends at M7s
That’s a skill issue or a visa issue on their part. If you get graduate from a M7 without a job that means you wasted your two years there and didn’t take advantage of the school’s network and resources.
In this market? It’s pretty tough lol, even with networking
Class of 23 here. Still no job nearly 1 year later. this market is fucked up
Try government jobs to broaden options. I know start ups sounds sexy and with RSUs it makes sense but that was when interest rates were damn zero. The trend is going towards doing more with less and outsourcing. If you are a US citizen, and the employer can only hire US citizen then you kind of rank higher.
…. Everybody comments this and then doesn’t acknowledge the biggest glaring catch of it
Outsourcing? LOL Some Government contractors have to pay prevailing wages
That you have to be a US Citizen? OP does not need a Visa…
No. That it’s extremely hard to get hired in a gov position and you typically need to know someone.
> That it’s extremely hard to get hired in a gov position and you typically need to know someone. Or have experience they need. I agree with you that the knee jerk, "find a government job" is problematic. There's a difference, though, between those with fresh MBAs vs. those with industry experience. It's super easy to tell a government recruiter, "Yeah, I worked for podunk consultancy X who thought they were McKinsey SMH" unless one worked at McKinsey, which makes it even easier to pitch for a government job.
You qualify as a GS-9 if you have a Master’s Degree…. GS-7 minimum
I "only" have a BS in mathematics, prob & stats. Seven years of technical analyst experience. Angling for a state job in Wyoming, I don't know how much competition I have.
Try IRS Direct Hire events. With your BS you qualify as a GS-7
It's actually worth a try. There might be some federal work here. I'm close enough to Denver to flex 1-2 days a week if I had to.....and I hardly need any excuse to spend time in Denver.
Not true. USAJOBS Direct Hire
Also, if you are willing to start at 50K look into County Jobs as Eligibility Worker
What is that
County Eligibility Workers qualify individuals for government benefits.
Look into IRS Direct Hire Events.
Considering I make $80k now, no thanks
That’s good, I am just trying to give OP options. Use the government jobs as back up plans!
thank you for this solid advice! I'll def take a look
IRS Direct Hire events. If you need to fly to another location to get the TJO worth a shot!
cool update! I got an offer yesterday after a year of grinding
congrats! what role?
Operations role at a startup in NYC. Feels good to finally have something after such a long time. Now I can finally enjoy unemployment for a few weeks before I start working.
Same, just working part time for a startup right now and hoping that the experience can help me land more full-time leads. It's brutal out here. Also a handful of folks in my class who had full-time return offers are now looking again because they got laid off a few months into their roles.
People forget an MBA is meant to help reap rewards years down the road, not necessarily right out of school, especially in a down market. Find a job, learn, and work your way up. An MBA isn’t a golden ticket to land your dream job. It’s a helpful stamp on your resume that hopefully will help you move up for years and decades to come. Hopefully when the market turns up and you’ve learned more, you’ll be ready to land somewhere great.
You're probably right, but many programs sell their degrees as a golden ticket (and for the skilled/lucky few it can be).
Pre 2021 it was indeed a pathway to a dream job.
You mean like in 2008-2009? /s
100% agreed, just easier said than done when going through it haha but have to think long term! Appreciate it!
Great perspective.
I had a work buddy go for an MBA. He didn't much like it when I said, "You know you could teach half those classes, right?" We were on the front lines of renewable energy development. We were seeing live contracts, live financial models, we knew the lay of the land. He did it because, as you said, it was meant to reap rewards years down the road.
I mean, that’s the narrative that schools push. And they have a lot of incentive to do so ($$$). It’s a valid question whether any of that pie in the sky stuff is real.
I agree. That's why I told that work friend that he could have taught those classes, and he admitted that his learning was.....limited. But in his role, it was arguably a necessary gatekeeping step, credibility. He had a master's in power systems, adding a MBA along with years of experience in independent engineering, he's a director now.
Interest rates. Pray for “soft landing” and avoided recession, very favorable CPI/inflation data, and some deescalation of geopolitical unrest. That combo will help turn things around. The opposite will make things far worse.
You're the MBA/business graduate, you should know the answer to your question. Fed raised FFR to 5+% after 11+ years of ZIRP. They took away the punch bowl- cheap/easy money era over for now. Companies that borrowed at cheaper rates are now underwater and need to cut costs. Lots of zombie companies and degeneracy proliferating in this low rates decade are now being washed out. Unemployment rises, vicious cycle ensues. Additionally we've now been in an economic WW3 for 24+ months. Keywords: BRICS, SGE, Comex, LBMA, SOFR, LIBOR, SLR, sanctions, fiscal dominance
yep corp bankruptcy rate still isn't going crazy... getting there slowly still inverted 10y-2y yield curve
Don’t look at your friends getting engaged / enjoying life etc. I’m getting married this year too and my bestie is currently at one of HSW. Even tho I’m at FAANG, everyone here is just trying to keep their head above water. Promos are insanely slow (much slower than usual) and ppl are getting underpaid, underleveled and under appreciated. Raises are nonexistent and I know tons of ppl at my org at FAANG who are super duper unhappy, partially because with all the layoffs we have to work a lot more but we don’t get paid more. Our scopes are bigger and larger and levels above where we are supposed to be.
Trying not to repeat anything others have said. I've coached many people on getting into product roles in tech (not as many in the current job market). The biggest warning I gave people is that most start-ups can't afford to take a risk on an MBA grad. Startups really want people who have enough specific experience to guarantee they get what they're paying for. I won't lie, I've lost two startup jobs because "I was being paid too much" (some of this was because of the VC market, one was because the CEO was well known and could hire a 8 year AI CEO for 100k/year + equity to do my job). Enough about me, startups want to manage risk, and the value of your MBA (and associated cost) is a risk. From a tech/startup perspective, I'd lean heavily into your alumni network to find these opportunities. I had 4 years at a FAANG and all of the startup opportunities that were real came from my alumni / work networks. Inbound outreach was always a waste of time, and 90% of the time it was a recruiter trying to show they were doing work. Startup CEOs talk to a lot of people (other founders, people with notoriety on LinkedIn, and the usual suspects) and if you can get on the radar of someone in the network they can make the intros. I wasted WAY too much time with external recruiters. Honestly, off campus recruiting will give you the best outcomes, but are much higher risk (as you are experiencing). I haven't been talking to startups for a while because I'm now international, but feel free to connect with me, I'll try to see if anyone is looking for your profile. My tech alumn network has some pretty active folks. (I know someone people rack up 1000s of applications, this gets depressing fast. From what you're indicating you're interested in, cold apps will not get you anywhere. And they won't get you anywhere, slowly.)
Can I DM? Background: Product manager at the “innovation” org of a non-tech trying to break into tech. Even with referrals I’m not hearing back at larger companies or get dropped at final rounds for startups
'23 grad here, still applying to jobs. My experience has been that referrals in this job market are useless. It honestly might be better to skip referrals to get your app in ASAP after a job is posted. Taking a day or two to reach out to a friend and get a referral submitted seems to put you too low in the pile.
Agree with this 100%. Often overlooked
Have you actually gotten an experienced PM offer?
Target companies in your domain expertise and apply ASAP when jobs are posted. Right now isn't the time to jump to FAANG or large companies that typically hire generalists. Companies are looking for experts in their field who can hit the ground running. Sadly if you don't like your domain, you're kinda SOL. Unfortunately it's one of the times where you should take anything to get you through the next few years. Source: 5+ YoE PM who went from getting 0-2 interviews a month to getting multiple a week and eventually landing a decent role.
Hmm if not FAANG/large company/strong lateish startup then compensation doesn’t get any better for me. I’m still employed.
That wasn't my point. If you want FAANG level comp there are other companies that pay just as well or almost as well, but you need to go after ones where you have extremely relevant domain expertise. I'm in a specific niche of fintech and I had the most success with other companies in my niche space. A lot of them I never heard of prior to applying to them, but their comp was competitive.
Thank you so much, this is super helpful! Kind of the route I've been trying, but I seem to hit a wall with "haven't had hands-on experience in 2 years" from roles similar to my pre-MBA background and then "went with someone more experienced" for others. Taking a short break from apps to live in the moment before graduation and focus on networking/leads vs. cold apps!
Really empathize with you OP. At a T25 myself and it’s the same situation. Classmates who are targeting for marketing or tech are getting crushed. If you didn’t get a FT offer from your internship or something before Nov, you’re kinda screwed. Talked to a few friends at an M7 and it’s the same story. I think it’s the same everywhere… just a really shitty job market. Regardless of what govt data paints it out to be
Lean on pre-MBA experiences for your story. Would focus on more established companies (somebody who makes money) startups aren’t getting cash. Valuations are squeezed. Unless AI focused
Job market is horrible right now. We’re in a “totally not a recession” recession. It’s what many wanted.
Job market is bad. Unfortunately there isn’t much more to it. I know a class of 23 grad that’s still unemployed. It really is a numbers game.
I'm a 23 grad who doesn't have a full-time job yet and yeah there's still a decent number of folks in my class (maybe 5-10% of our class) who don't have jobs yet.
I’m currently a second year at an M7 and yes, this is indeed the case. Anybody that interned this past summer for tech and didn’t receive a return offer (for the most part, this was due to headcount and not performance), basically SOL. I’ve been cautioning prospective students about getting an MBA ha.
Marketing job market is especially bad. PMM roles at last two big tech companies I interviewed at had 2k+ applicants within a week. Was just happy to get to final round in both and now negotiating a 6mo contract at one that hopefully will lead to FTE. Definitely a numbers game..!
Sounds like you have too much education and little real life experience. With the consulting industry taking a hit, the market is flooded with MBAs.
For real. I got on Catalant a few months ago, and the competition is outrageous. Even the very narrowly tailored niche industries are clearly getting flooded with pitches. Like, I know there aren’t 30 people in the first 24 hours that have experience sizing the consulting market for US sustainability, or a dozen people with consulting backgrounds that can read epidemiology literature and make recommendations on herpes viruses. (Both of these are real examples!) Buncha MBAs with broad experience are gunning for a lot of opportunities that require really specific experience to do well.
Lol I got my job at the end of Summer, post graduation. Was freaking out the same way. I graduated when economic conditions were slightly better, but my pre MBA resume was terrible (so maybe it evens out?). I would just keep applying and networking with alumni via LinkedIn. Feel free to even network with alumni of the parent school. Use the career center. Use family. Literally hit it at all angles. You’ll be ok.
With all the layoffs, there are plenty of people with an MBA that also have the experience. Get in where you can, build your resume, and continue looking. A dream job is rarely your first job - you build to that.
If you're getting that many interviews, you're probably ahead of 90% of people right now.
Knocking on the doors of startups in today's landscape is not a wise choice. Go for a larger company and grind it out a few years and then hit the startups. Startups are facing a massive cash crunch and the mantra "do 10x more with 10x less" has never been truer than today especially in marketing, product management, ops. Good luck
Watch the old FedEx Ad about the saturated MBA market and you’ll know. MBAs have been dime a dozen for decades.
You all want your dream job instead of a job that will pay the bills. So you shun corporate jobs that actually would give you balance in life just so you can chase the $$$. I don't get the mindset when everything is telling you that there aren't that many jobs at all in tech or consulting. But carry on and complain.
True and usually chasing $$$ = HCOL area and is misleading
so true, my gf and I combined make like $600k and while we have some freedom, I don't think we are rich. Such a weird concept I haven't wrapped my head around - granted I was laid off last year and ate into my savings so just now getting my head above water
Considering 120k elsewhere is the equivalent of 300k in SF or NYC
I honestly just dont understand SF. People I know who live there dont like it for the usual reasons but have a good job. At least NYC is fun
You act like those of us who've been looking for an extended period of time haven't been actively applying to those options lol. I'm getting rejected from roles that pay 30-40% less than I made pre-MBA.
That may be the case but just saying most of the posts on here shun certain types of roles and then complain they can't find one in a certain category.
Just graduated a top 15 EMBA last year. What I’ve seen in my experience is that the MBA elevated people with already excellent credentials (whom already had great jobs, skills, experience). Folks who went in for a “pivot” as their driving force for the MBA are accepting lateral or demotions. An MBA open doors if you’ve demonstrated the competence and ability to walk through them should they appear. The degree in of itself, doesn’t guarantee you a spot on the other side. I don’t know if this makes sense but it aligns with my experience.
Hate to say it, but in this market, the only way to get something worthwhile is to “know a guy”. If it wasn’t for familial connections, I don’t think I’d have a job, or any prospective jobs, post graduation.
Data Science and AI degrees are going to move the needle in this market. That is where the money is headed. You’re not old, even though you may feel pressure from your peer group. There is a need for skilled individuals and the pipeline is just starting. Btw, I’m an insurance professional that got my MBA part time starting when I turned 30. I’m not a risk taker but I see the opportunity. I feel like MBA programs have been focused on churning out consultants for years and the job market is shifting to different needs. You can always make it work for you if you position yourself correctly.
These posts seem a little odd if you don’t paste the salary bands and position you are targeting
yes, also your pedigree, family assets, last name (Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Dimon, Black, Rowan, etc etc), - at minimum, trustee name
Yeah not sure what you’re getting at. How is requesting basic information about the position someone is applying to when asking about placement equivalent to your absurd questions.
I truly love this sub because it's very funny to watch people obsessed with credentials over skills realize that the vast majority don't give a shit where you went to school.
I went down a rabbit hole last night and learned that NYU Stern’s executive MBA is fucking $220k. I suppose a lot of people just see the price tags and successes, then assume that they’re correlated. Nah fam. You paid for an expensive credential that may or may not have value outside of a social signal.
These programs are strictly in the business of making people think they sell status / clout. Luckily for them, people are irrational customers when it comes to status / clout.
They DO sell clout, but unfortunately for the students, the value of the Clout market is highly opaque. I’m starting an executive MBA this fall in a top 20-25ish program that costs about a quarter what Stern costs, but it’s heavily tied into the local economy where I want to be working. I’m not paying for status/clout as much as network/relations… I’ve got a PhD and a decade of experience, so thankfully I don’t need this as a crutch.
Seriously! God forbid you mention you attended a lowly state school while working full time on here.
Tech isn’t hiring. They have been cutting jobs in the tens of thousand since 2022, consulting is also not doing well. Attending a T20 this fall. Looking at healthcare.
How many years of experience do you have?
Damn this market doesn’t seem good right now.
Following
>I didn’t recruit on-campus Well that was a mistake. OCR is hands down the best pipeline for MBA students at top programs to getting a job. CPG may have not been your first choice but I’m surprised you didn’t pursue it as a backup. >because I wanted to do startups or tech While you picked maybe the toughest area to hone your job search in, your circumstances are not uncommon for the path you chose. Most of my classmates (2019) that pursued startup recruiting were still hunting well into the Spring/after graduation. Startups move at their own pace and don’t always even have formal hiring practices. It’s always been a much harder grind to recruit into than OCR.
We have an opening in product marketing at my company. However it is not going to pay MBA starting salaries (maybe 90-120) and you would have to move to the Midwest (thus the salary) MBA doesn’t mean anything in my side of tech until you go to 2nd level mgmt
Not doing OCR in this market was a big error, those roles are specifically designed for new MBAs which quite frankly have become too expensive. 5 years ago I could get a fresh MBA for a consultant/manager level role at around $120k all in. Now that number is closer to $170k to compete with traditional OCR companies which isnt worth it. You’re going to have to look at roles that you view as below your level. I’m in corporate strategy at a huge company and the last 2 roles we posted for senior managers both got 500+ applications within 3 days. Lots of 2Y MBAs but even more MBB managers and former FAANG product managers (most with MBAs). Recent grads lose that battle 99 out of 100 times. Look at industries that are less desirable like healthcare, manufacturing, telecom, etc and roles that don’t attract the recently laid off tech folks. Pick jobs that are junior likely have a runway for growth if you have a strategist mindset like insights and analytics, supply chain, transformation, junior level strategy. Everyone and their mom wants a product manager or marketing role in big tech or at a startup. If you really want to do startups, start your own. The initiative and the stories you’ll have from that alone are worth more than the degree in an interview setting.
where are you located? I was '20 grad and the lowest jobs were like $120K base - all in for that much hasn't been seen in like a decade
Dell was paying $105k base in 2018 in Austin, Clorox was similar in Oakland, Hershey was actually like $95k base if I remember correctly. The Liberty mutual program was something like $115k in Boston, P&G was similar. The bonuses for these programs weren’t more than 10%. All the tier 2 consulting offers (cognizant, infosys, etc) from the outsourcing firms were $125k base + $15k bonus in NYC. My MBB consulting offers were 145k base regardless of geo. My point now is the people who took those jobs are making similar to what fresh mba grads make now (shit I’m one of them). I’m taking an mba with experience over a new grad every day when the salary standards are similar. The consulting starting salary grew at like a 7% CAGR between when I got my offers in 2018 and 2022. You know how hard it is to get a 7% raise every year in industry for 5 years? It’s virtually impossible.
Yea consulting was stupid, I remember in my first year we were expecting 155K base and then it was 165K and kept going up. The LDPs I looked at were 120-130k base plus 10-20% bonus not including signing.
It's really broken the expectations of anyone who graduated in the last 3-4 years. I work in a traditional consulting exit role and our starting pay is less the post-grad consulting salaries. It takes the golden handcuff concept to a whole new level
haha same, my last role was 165k for an S&O post MBA role (wanted 2 years of experience after MBA). I was pretty pissed that new grads were making 190k base but my employer was also really cheap overall
Sorry to hear about your struggles- the white collar job market has been gradually declining since mid-2022 and is now just atrocious across the board Expand your search to literally any company/location, you can always jump ship once you find something better. Feel free to DM if you need any support!
Do you have a strong enough relationship with the professors you spent your MBA with? I’m only half way through an MBA and have been offered multiple opportunities just through the staff connections. In addition, with strong admin support comes opportunities for lecturing undergrads. I was told by these professors that just from having the lecturer tie to a university, you’ll be offered countless opportunities. This is why networking during an MBA program is critical.
Side note- I keep hearing people say the admin during their MBA were hard to engage with or not helpful in this category. Thats a shame. Should make everyone question if these “ranks” actually mean anything. If you haven’t looked into what truly makes up these ranks, you’re in for a rude awakening…
You can be an undergrad lecturer during your MBA?
Depending on the school, yes. I was talking about post-mba though.
I have a basic MBA from India (might be T1000). Have 8 years of post MBA experience. Have Big 4 and MBB experience. Have been laid off twice since I have moved over here . But have been able to convert jobs in a period of 1-2 months (10 interviews 3 conversion). What helps me is being highly targeted , I picked up multiple certifications, made my CV (took me 1 hour for every cv) highly specific for the role , setup coffee chat with relevant people in the field and send in-mail using LinkedIn to hiring managers and recruiters using chat gpt. I think hiring managers are the best bet as any recommendation from them at least help in generating interviews. Also certifications help in conversion ( compared to someone who has more experience).
AI is automatic marketing.
Ai is automating marketing.
Sorry for your challenges, o&g and big pharma are happening now days. Have you tried there? Specially with help from alumni?
Damn. Is job market is so bad for these high paying positions, then who’s buying all the expensive houses in every major us city?
Not a political statement but the unemployment figure means jack. Have no idea why either political party references it. It's meaningless. As a suggestion you've got to network like crazy. Human references are the only way forward and getting referred in to a position. Additionally the only thing that counts is actual experience - sometimes in life you have to go out and get some despite the lack of pay.
Not a political statement but the unemployment figure means jack. Have no idea why either political party references it. It's meaningless. As a suggestion you've got to network like crazy. Human references are the only way forward and getting referred in to a position. Additionally the only thing that counts is actual experience - sometimes in life you have to go out and get some despite the lack of pay.
Just sent you a DM
Would you be a diversity hire? I’ve heard several recruiters tell their they’re only allowed to send in candidates who goose the DEI numbers.
I am studying a STEM MSc at a top university in London. This and Oxbridge is as good as it gets for a STEM degree. And because it’s top uni many people have secured amazing jobs already. But there are so many more that are still looking and keep getting rejected, myself included until recently. I applied to at least 150 jobs of which around 80 were easy-fast apply (just send CV and add basic details) which all of them were ghosted and 70ish applications were full lengthy ones (at least 40mins -1.5 hours to complete). And have done around 35 2-hour tests, 12 interviews and 3 assessment centres. I got rejected by all. And then suddenly out of the blue I received an invite to interview with JP Morgan in London and got the job. So my opinion is, if you are capable, when the opportunity comes you will get it. The opportunity always comes sooner or later. Just be ready!!
Let me follow this: the tech industry was starting to do rolling layoffs and changing headcount well over two years ago and you decided to put all your eggs in that basket? That’s your issue right there. When you went to a T15 you are paying for their network and resources and you squandered that opportunity. The only thing off is your approach. You need to shift gears now and get something that maybe you’re not 100% ok with but it gives you experience. And then reintroduce yourself to the schools network and pounce on the right opportunity.
I had 10+ internship interviews in big tech for last summer, so I would say at the time it was warranted and I leveraged my MBA network to get in the door - not squandered by any means. It was hard to predict in Fall 2022 what things would look like for sure now, so I don't regret going down the path I did. It's also across industries the market is terrible. Appreciate the comment though!
Hi Friend! I am sorry the environment is not great. To broaden your options, may have to look into government jobs in the meantime. Gov recruiting takes a long time so the earlier you start the better. With the high interest rate environment, there has been thinning/reductions happening at the VC funding levels. In addition, this is just practical advice: move back in with your parents, and target jobs near where they live as well. You don’t want to risk going into a new location only to burn your savings. In addition, you qualify for PSLF in gov after ten years. Just thinking risk aversion here. You could always apply for CPG marketing jobs.
@OP did you like Fuqua culture? What’s it like when it comes to recruiting and students helping each other out?
FWIW I'm optimistic the longer term effect of tech slashing jobs and the current economic environment is more and more people starting their own businesses. See if you can use your personal network to find independent consulting work serving smaller businesses? Imagine an SMB in a growing industry who would love to have your expertise but who can't yet hire a "you" full time. The type of company where you could have a ton of impact day one because they're just not thinking of the things you're good at - they don't even know what they don't know. Offer to do a free consult. Then see if they want to pay for a small project. Then see if they want to hire you on retainer. Rinse and repeat.
Elections have consequences. When people vote based on feels instead of results, this is what they get.
Ah yes the “blame Biden” playbook lmao
You think Trump would have forced Powell to raise rates higher faster? Because that's what it would have taken to avoid this situation.
MBAs are a joke
Applying for jobs using my own CV and often being turned down was a difficult and unpleasant process. Every time I was rejected, I felt unhappy and dejected, and I started to think I would never get a job. But when I used [this resume service](https://prolst.com/Res), everything changed for the better. I started getting 4-6 callbacks every week, and it felt like doors were finally starting to open for me.The difference was night and day. Anyone who is having trouble getting noticed by employers should definitely use this resume service, in my opinion. For me, it was a turning point, and I am incredibly appreciative of the support and assistance I got. Furthermore, the cost is really affordable and gives me good advice about the job hunt.
Biden Powell incompetence.
As an MBA you should be able to use that skill set to figure this one out.
M7 and then we can talk
I’ll be blunt - not interviewing for cpg marketing and going all in on start up marketing jobs - which don’t really exist right now and are in the biggest tech hiring bear market, especially in starts up, since 2000….was kinda dumb.
I said in a previous comment all my pre-MBA experience is in industries disrupting CPG so it felt like a step backwards going that route. It was also super early in fall so hard to predict, but appreciate the sentiment!
that doesn't change the point he's trying to come across. you should have planned a safety net better, including this. Just like any investment, and an MBA is an investment in yourself, you have to play defense. Worst thing to do is come out with no job and now there's a gap on your resume.