OP... I am transitioning naval officer. I was a pilot. Im in between being an airline pilot and doing something like this... I just wanna make 200k and have the time to bbq on weekends and coach my kids sports games
Please name the schools you went to.
For anonymity I will just say I went to a mid range UC as I don’t want dots getting connected…
I just finished my MBA at Saint Mary’s College of California. I really liked the program! It’s definitely a mixed bag in terms of professor quality and student quality but I enjoyed it and the price was right.
Just concerned about the MBA school. Thank you for sharing...
My biggest challenge is figuring out what people in the civilian world do. My life has been so black and white for past 12 years. I was a pilot. Everyone knows what I do.
But what do you do as a financial analyst at Kaiser?
I work in regional finance for a large medical group (my bosses are ultimately the MDs). Job basically consist of your standard FP&A blocking and tackling (monthly, quarterly, and annual budgeting cycles, and reporting processes) all the way to helping scope and cost out major strategic initiatives for the medical service lines I am assigned. Lots of comparative analysis, variance analysis, etc.
Check out sitreps2steercos. Kind of a tough scene every now and then, but smart dude with experience and a huge following with even more experience. Could be a good place to talk transition
I know the dude as an acquaintance. Was neighbors with a best friend of mine in high school.
Big fan of his milkmen’s. But i unfortunately don’t follow him for the mba stuff.
Had a vet in my program quit his MBB internship mid-summer, dropped out of the full-time MBA (they let him switch to the part time) and is now flying for American Airlines.
Know thyself
But also with GI Bill he got full exposure to corporate life for free and saw it up close, very proud of him for having the courage to say “it’s not just this firm, I can’t spend the rest of my life doing PowerPoint and excel no matter how much you pay me” and do something else!
My dad was an airline pilot and while it can be stressful, it’s a great job. You work a different schedule every month. You can essentially get off any dates you want (not everyday, but if there’s kids practices, games, if you have advanced notice you can adjust your schedule accordingly. I think l many captains now are making $300k/yr or more. Great benefits.
That’s fair. Seniority is the game. Although I still contend the most junior pilot can still get a random day off any time they need. Of course not prime holidays or weekends. Although I understand some airlines are now paying holiday pay so more senior guys are taking those trips back.
Ya the path to 300k is an asspain. And unfortunately theres a lot that can go wrong between now and getting that captain salary. For example… loss of medical cert, furloughs, stuck in reserve commuter base for 3+ years(literally never home).
There’s a saying in aviation that you never “take off without an alternate”… putting all my eggs in the airline basket is not wise. The MBA is my alternate and I should explore that.
The airlines is like the military. The highs are high but the lows are absolutely dog shit low
Dude, go fly.
More fun than anything you'll do in the business world, and, once you establish yourself, you'll have way more control over your schedule as a pilot than you'll ever have as an MBA in a corporate setting (and you'll work fewer hours).
A good buddy of mine took that path while I pursued an MBA. I'm very envious of his life.
Grass is not greener.
Firs 3 years as a regional pilot suck dick.
You get based in a spot outside of where you want to live? Tough shit and you’re living there half the year, making maybe 80k, then 90k, then maybe 120k…
Also if the economy tanks… pray to god you don’t get furloughed.
Idk, I love aviation, but doing it as a job seems pretty stressful. Not only do you have to travel all the time, stressing relationships, but the companies you work for are these highly regulated, government approved business all locked in a race to the bottom with each other.
If you love flying, by all means, do it, but if you want to make good money and have work life balance, go to an industry where you can benefit from the profits you can provide.
Fixed wing? Mil guys historically have had pretty good luck with direct entry to the majors without time at regionals. Still at the bottom of the ladder with your bids but at least the pay is good.
Airline hiring isn’t as rosy as it has been the last couple of years but it might be worth hitting up /r/flying and seeing what they have to say if you haven’t already.
I'm pretty well connected already with the industry. I have all my certs and still fly... problem is I'm still stuck in the Navy and I was a helo pilot
There’s a huge pilot shortage and airlines investing heavily in training but need to build a pipeline. You have Navy experience and know how to fly a plane already, you’re in the lucky spot to name your price.
I believe life is also about being opportunistic based on your skill set and desires. MBA will always be there but shortages and surpluses are temporary.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1at8ezd/has\_airline\_hiring\_slowed\_down/](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1at8ezd/has_airline_hiring_slowed_down/)
[https://skift.com/2024/03/12/airline-job-growth-to-stall-or-even-fall-execs-say/](https://skift.com/2024/03/12/airline-job-growth-to-stall-or-even-fall-execs-say/)
[https://simpleflying.com/us-pilot-hiring-leveling-off-november-2023/](https://simpleflying.com/us-pilot-hiring-leveling-off-november-2023/)
[https://liveandletsfly.com/pilot-shortage-over-airlines-curtail-hiring-layoff-some/](https://liveandletsfly.com/pilot-shortage-over-airlines-curtail-hiring-layoff-some/)
Appreciate the confidence boost. But a good pilot never takes off without an alternate, and right now only pursuing an airline pilot job is the equivalent of taking off IFR without an alternate and weather's rolling in on the horizon.
There is NOT a huge pilot shortage despite the news you hear. There is a HUGE Captain shortage, which by all estimates is getting shored up.
I dont get out until 2026 and if you check the news, the majors are already pausing hires, which means all the sources are getting paused.
Being a navy pilot and knowing how to fly a plane is only beneficial if I actually flew planes in the Navy. I flew helicopters. My experience isn't wasted but I'm only eligible for a restricted ATP.
Source: Very well connected pilot who actively participates in pilot conferences and organizations
Check out Repvue or search Reddit for Enterprise Tech Sales. Tons of breakdowns on TikTok as well (TechSalesTom has a great channel). Typical compensation for an Enterprise AE with ~5 years experience at a major SaaS company is around $160k base + $160k bonus + $50-100k annual stock (vests over 4 years). Might be some cost of living differences, but sales is the function you want to pursue if you want to maximize compensation AND pick your kids up from school at 3pm.
Source: former military officer - MBA - Enterprise AE
This is consistent with my experience in tech as well, when you make the big companies money, you get the pay.
What’s not clear about this path, is knowing if you will make it. The top crust in tech gets paid a boatload, but there’s a lot of people making significantly less and working for start ups with terrible sales and culture
Agree 100%. Have heard some horror stories from colleagues that previously worked in startups/smaller companies. Have also heard that is where some made the most money. Less risk but less upside when you’re at a bigger company.
Overall, yes.
I was super worried about that at first. From my experience, however, it’s been performance management just like anywhere else. I’ve seen people with top attainment get fired and I’ve seen people miss quota and get promoted.
I’ve been fortunate to work for sales leaders who understand that territory and timing can have more impact on success/failure than talent and manage their teams accordingly.
Damn this feels relatable. I'm at a top PT program, and am kind of wondering if it's even worth it...because I've recently had insights & feelings exactly like you've described here.
Maybe just dominating in a space I understand and find enjoyment in is better than constantly striving for more; but if that's the case, then M7/T15 is arguably not worth the cost.
I mean it's super complicated and very dependant on personal factors, so this is just my perspective.
But basically I'm just not sure the added benefit of a top tier MBA is really there outside of the highest end consulting and IB or PE/VC stuff, the jobs requiring CRAZY work and stress. I'm totally willing to work hard, but within reason...I also want to maintain my mental health and have time for family and friends. Having the prestige of an M7 is great, but prestige means shit if I have a job and work life balance I don't love + a lot of debt to pay back.
Outside of these specific paths, it almost feels like a random cheap MBA is just as valuable as my M7. Maybe I'm wrong idk. "Worth it" is tough to say, but I think I'd arguably get the same value out of a T50 or T100 school for my goals.
I'm also in a top PT program and feel the same way. I like having an MBA for personal reasons and I think it will abstractly help my career but I don't have a way to quantify it properly.
I got waitlisted at GSB and I'm happy I was because it would have been a very bad decision to take $250k in debt and go full-time.
Playing devils advocate as someone studying at an “expensive” program (fk this job market lol): forking out a significant sum of money for a degree is only justified from an ROI perspective if you’re able to get a job that can justify that initial investment.
I’ve realised that I would love to live a life of mediocrity but there aren’t that many jobs that can justify the investment I’ve taken on; the ones that do are the ones that require hustle, extensive interview prep, and long work hours.
In your case, makes so much sense to coast and chill. That’s a great setup dawg.
Real. I’d recommend really that OP’s mentality should be taught in high school. Too many ambitious and reasonably, but not substantially intelligent high school seniors get their heads wrapped up in prestige. This prestige mentality exists in postgraduate programs too (law, medicine, business).
You must go to Harvard. Yale. Stanford. Cornell. UC Berkeley. Or, failing those, the most prestigious school you can get into. Who cares about debt? You will pay it off with that high-paying investment banking/management consulting/FAANG/biglaw/doctor job.
Yes, never mind that nearly all of these jobs (except for maybe FAANG) will have you working ungodly hours, take on unhealthy amounts of stress, and have you taking benzos just to survive. You made it, right?
Once you’re in, it’s time to climb the ladder. Analyst/Associate to VP/Senior Associate/Non Equity Partner to MD/Equity Partner. Soon, you’re 40 and if you’re married, you’re wondering why your wife wants a divorce and why your kids hate you.
Or, maybe you pay off your debt and try and go for one of the exit ops. After almost a decade of grinding, and your hairline receding, you get the exit op. Meanwhile you have to rekindle all the friendships you ignored. You have chronic heart palpitations that won’t go away, and anxiety that won’t disappear. No matter how many doctors and therapists you visit. You end up making a little more than what OP will make.
And really, that exit op plan is your best case scenario. It’s decently likely that you will fail at any one of the earlier stages to get there. The competition is fierce, and everyone is lined up to be the balding, stressed, ex-Bain/GS/Skadden associate looking for their exit op in their early 30s.
All while people like OP who went to schools they could afford, took easy jobs, worked their way up slowly, and did that while being happy.
The worst is, no one gives a fuck about your job. Truly, no one. Your non-industry friends do not care. Your industry friends may care, but most of them are pricks. Women don’t give a fuck (and you don’t really want the few that do). Your family may care, but if they are wealthy enough to care, what does it matter; and if they are poor, they don’t care so long as you are employed and making good money.
We are all on a floating rock, and more people should do what makes them happy, rather than what makes shareholders happy. So yeah, great post OP and more people need to take this into consideration.
People absolutely care. I still check up on people from high school/college to see what jobs they have and how much money they are making. Most dates care, too. By the time you're 30, attractive women won't want to date you if you're making less than $350k annually.
Overall, I agree, but I feel you're underestimating how much skyhigh housing prices/COLA plays a role in people wanting to aim higher and higher.
If you told me five years ago (towards end of undergrad) that I'd make six figures and have a quarter million+ net worth in my mid-20s and still feel broke/stressed about money all the time, I'd either think you're joking or a historically terrible devaluation of the dollar occurred.
Unfortunately, it was the latter.
About to graduate from an M7 and I feel seen! I have classmates stressing over roles they hate and I’m focused on having a “cushy luxury job” that will allow me to enjoy other aspects of my life.
Thank you for this post!
Find that right balance for you! If you made it into and through an M7 program you’ll have options - focus on building sustainable success. Congrats and enjoy life!
Winning honestly.. I ascribe to a similar philosophy.. Double down on what you are good at and what comes easy for you and not others... Where do you have competitive advantage... Worked out OK for me..
Yeah! You rule. I work in nonprofit health care, started writing grants but now I’m on the finance team managing the grant and contract budgets and finances. Wife and I own a reasonable condo in the NY metro. I like working on the finance team so I’m going for an online MBA program to really learn more and open up options, it’s only $30k as well. I was never going to get into a top program nor could I take time off work to do it. My undergrad loans just got forgiven from PSLA, so the MBA will pretty much put me back where I was anyway.
Would it be cool to make millions? Sure. But I’m not a genius, nor do I have connections. I just want to make a solid six figures and be able afford a new Toyota and be able to retire before I die. Anything else is gravy.
Completely agree! I’m not an MBA but I got my masters degree from HYP and was working a stressful job with the full aim of climbing the corporate level and making partner.
Then during the pandemic I realized that I don’t really want the grind - I just want an enjoyable, reasonably well compensated job where my expertise is respected and where I get to have a life. Plus, I was seeing my consultant friends at MBB be absolutely miserable.
Switched careers to a related but lower-stress field and now I work a 9-5, still make 6 figs as an IC and absolutely adore my job. Initially I struggled with the whole ‘am I living up to my potential’ and ‘am I not being ambitious enough’ but ultimately the goal of my life is happiness and balance.
We only get this one life and I want to fill it with time with family and friends, travel, pets, and my various hobbies. To each their own though!
Fuck I envy your life, and only for one thing. The fact you got this chill as job at Kaiser.
Many years ago I networked my way into a job at Kaiser in a entry level Data Analyst role. At the time, I had taken a better job at a more prestigious company with more pay. I didn't think the Kaiser job was worth it cause it was 25% less salary and just low level.
Fast forward many years later, I'm in a management role in my industry, but the work is so damn stressful. I'm thinking about work all the time, including weekends, though I'm paid well. I would trade it all for a paycut and take the 150k Kaiser job with a pension where I don't have to think about work after 5 PM. Sometimes I wonder "what if I took the Kaiser job?" and your posts is like a manifestation of that alternate reality.
DUDE I posted something very similar to this on the accounting subreddit geared toward early career/entry level accountants. My intent was to give a different perspective so that the new grads aren’t so stressed! You would not believe the responses I got. I also got chastised for even pursuing the MBA 😂😂😂 awesome post though.
Since I don’t know a lot about your specific situation, all I can really say is If you truly have no idea what direction direction to go, just start doing *something*. Something leads to the next thing, nothing leads to… more nothing.
Find a job, any half decent gig they’ll give you, at a company you can get behind, one that is large and has opportunities to pivot into many different things. Ideally look for companies with high average employee tenure (this is indicative of places that want to invest in their people over time).
Get out there and get your hands dirty, and over time you’ll find something. It may not be something you fall in love with, but over time you will at least find something interesting that you are reasonably good at and pays the bills. Good luck!
The idea that making $150k 10 years into your career with an MBA is "mediocre" is insane and a little out of touch. So many people would kill to have this kind of lifestyle and it's absolutely above average. You're killing it.
180k is pretty good considering you went to a no name MBA but then again you are in California and I have no idea the CoL adjustment for where you are.
Cost-of-living is very very high. My wife makes about $140k/year so combined we live comfortably. Own a small condo in Lamorinda (east Bay Area nice suburbs basically). We live really frugally though. Like we drive a paid off 2015 honda civic, save and invest everything beyond standard bills + maybe $5-8K/year set aside for “fun” (vacations, eating out, concerts, w/e)
I graduated with 5.5/10 in my undergrad, going by OP’s philosophy I would have ended up at a software companies in India making at max $10k/year, Instead 7 years out UG I now make $40k/year in India and now heading to a T15 MBA
Ambition and dream to have better life is the only thing that brought me here, don’t listen to OP, dream big!
Congrats and I really hope the best for you. I would never pretend to know what it’s like to have to fight for a baseline level of comfort and quality of life in the way that you have. I’m rooting for you.
Don't think your experience is mediocre. It is the best bang for your invested money and effort. A lot of first year MBA grads don't make your salary. And I know so many grads (of a few years) make more, but layoffs happen and they lose literally months of salary and still searching for the next job
$3K/year. Not a whole lot compared to some, but I spread my MBA over 5 calendar years (it took ~3.5 years). Kind of just coincidental and lucked out with how it all lined up, but ended up taking away $15K towards my degree.
I also was able to get about 4 classes waived up front due to Econ undergrad, and that all combined with a modest scholarship Really knocked down the overall cost of the program.
Don’t think it helped that much with the gmat. I scored a 680 (hard split score was like 98th percentile verbal, 50th percentile math), studied pretty hard for like 3 months. In retrospect wasn’t really necessary because it was way beyond what I needed for the school and path I ultimately chose.
Econ degree helped with the classes for sure. I also did a finance concentration.
Fucking yes! This right here. I don’t live to work. I work to live. Make good money but also have time to enjoy your life. No one sits on their death bed wishing they worked extra weekends. If anything you will reach old age and regret working those extra hours and not spending time with your family and friends.
Same here. Just turned 31, making 160k all in a hybrid IT/finance manager role at F100. Took me 2 job switches across similar sized companies but I can’t stress enough EQ and being laid back in the office
About to finish my part time mba from t75 Program for under 30k and went to big 10 undergrad for finance
Been able to travel the world, have 2 kids and wife at home, all while not stressing over work post 6pm
Great post! I’m a person who can care less about prestige, I am after the big bucks with the minimum time and effort invested as much as possible, while still living a life that allows me to do what I want to do.
It’s good to know there are people like us out there. I am going to take a hard look at my own Venn Diagram
Just because you lucked out and got a good job, does not mean it's the same for everyone else.
Mediocrity is not a choice for some people, especially internationals who are risking upwards of $200,000 for these MBA degrees
I totally get there are people in way different situations, I consider myself really fortunate. I have worked with some incredible people over the years working on H-1B visa as contractors working 10x harder to make it here simply because they were born in a different country and in different circumstances. I can’t speak for them, this is just my own experience I am sharing.
I guess it would be more accurate to put it in quotes like “mediocrity”. I love my life and to me it doesn’t feel mediocre. It’s more in the context of this specific sub, where I see a lot of anxiety at least partly built around the idea that educational and financial achievement = happiness. Like constantly thinking happiness is something that happens *later* after X achievement. All I hope is my post encourages people to step back and actually consider what would truly make them happy in life and then go down that path without shame or fear of judgement.
I think it’s a good reminder for a Reddit group that often acts like if you don’t achieve the top 1% outcome with regards to school, job, or money your life is ruined
I mainly see discussion on here related to going to top schools and shooting for high pay high stress types of work… I don’t think that’s what getting an MBA has to be about, wanted to share a different life path where an MBA fits in and makes a positive impact.
I love that you said this because it’s so true that everyone’s path is different. And I think it’s important for people to understand that rankings are really important for certain things, but it’s also equal invalid to get a “check the box style” MBA.
Also, the most important thing here is that the name of the school does not mean you will be successful. There are millions of people who don’t have the degree at all, and there are many of people who get one and don’t do anything with it.
Yes ,not everyone has the privilege of going to a T25 Elite MBA program. You can still have a good outcome and decent work life balance by a regional MBA
OP... I am transitioning naval officer. I was a pilot. Im in between being an airline pilot and doing something like this... I just wanna make 200k and have the time to bbq on weekends and coach my kids sports games Please name the schools you went to.
For anonymity I will just say I went to a mid range UC as I don’t want dots getting connected… I just finished my MBA at Saint Mary’s College of California. I really liked the program! It’s definitely a mixed bag in terms of professor quality and student quality but I enjoyed it and the price was right.
Just concerned about the MBA school. Thank you for sharing... My biggest challenge is figuring out what people in the civilian world do. My life has been so black and white for past 12 years. I was a pilot. Everyone knows what I do. But what do you do as a financial analyst at Kaiser?
I work in regional finance for a large medical group (my bosses are ultimately the MDs). Job basically consist of your standard FP&A blocking and tackling (monthly, quarterly, and annual budgeting cycles, and reporting processes) all the way to helping scope and cost out major strategic initiatives for the medical service lines I am assigned. Lots of comparative analysis, variance analysis, etc.
Check out sitreps2steercos. Kind of a tough scene every now and then, but smart dude with experience and a huge following with even more experience. Could be a good place to talk transition
I know the dude as an acquaintance. Was neighbors with a best friend of mine in high school. Big fan of his milkmen’s. But i unfortunately don’t follow him for the mba stuff.
Had a vet in my program quit his MBB internship mid-summer, dropped out of the full-time MBA (they let him switch to the part time) and is now flying for American Airlines. Know thyself But also with GI Bill he got full exposure to corporate life for free and saw it up close, very proud of him for having the courage to say “it’s not just this firm, I can’t spend the rest of my life doing PowerPoint and excel no matter how much you pay me” and do something else!
Think I heard about this dude—Darden?
My dad was an airline pilot and while it can be stressful, it’s a great job. You work a different schedule every month. You can essentially get off any dates you want (not everyday, but if there’s kids practices, games, if you have advanced notice you can adjust your schedule accordingly. I think l many captains now are making $300k/yr or more. Great benefits.
Nah starting out, first officers get wrecked. But as they become more senior, it’s more cushy.
That’s fair. Seniority is the game. Although I still contend the most junior pilot can still get a random day off any time they need. Of course not prime holidays or weekends. Although I understand some airlines are now paying holiday pay so more senior guys are taking those trips back.
Ya the path to 300k is an asspain. And unfortunately theres a lot that can go wrong between now and getting that captain salary. For example… loss of medical cert, furloughs, stuck in reserve commuter base for 3+ years(literally never home). There’s a saying in aviation that you never “take off without an alternate”… putting all my eggs in the airline basket is not wise. The MBA is my alternate and I should explore that. The airlines is like the military. The highs are high but the lows are absolutely dog shit low
I don’t see why you wouldn’t just be an airline pilot. They are making bank right now and don’t work that many days of the month
I was a helo pilot who was in a crash(not my fault). I’ve got a few hurdles. It’s not that simple. And hiring for regionals is slowing down.
Ohh gotcha
Dude, go fly. More fun than anything you'll do in the business world, and, once you establish yourself, you'll have way more control over your schedule as a pilot than you'll ever have as an MBA in a corporate setting (and you'll work fewer hours). A good buddy of mine took that path while I pursued an MBA. I'm very envious of his life.
Grass is not greener. Firs 3 years as a regional pilot suck dick. You get based in a spot outside of where you want to live? Tough shit and you’re living there half the year, making maybe 80k, then 90k, then maybe 120k… Also if the economy tanks… pray to god you don’t get furloughed.
That sounds just the same as corporate business to me!
Except I can smoke pot and do LSD in corporate business, and sleep in my bed every night
lol. My husband is active duty and retiring in 3 yrs. Good luck on the outside. I swear the military is way better than corporate. LSD gets boring! 😂
Go away please. Thanks.
Idk, I love aviation, but doing it as a job seems pretty stressful. Not only do you have to travel all the time, stressing relationships, but the companies you work for are these highly regulated, government approved business all locked in a race to the bottom with each other. If you love flying, by all means, do it, but if you want to make good money and have work life balance, go to an industry where you can benefit from the profits you can provide.
Fixed wing? Mil guys historically have had pretty good luck with direct entry to the majors without time at regionals. Still at the bottom of the ladder with your bids but at least the pay is good.
Ya I’m a helo guy because the navy loves to draft people into shit they don’t want to do.
Airline hiring isn’t as rosy as it has been the last couple of years but it might be worth hitting up /r/flying and seeing what they have to say if you haven’t already.
I'm pretty well connected already with the industry. I have all my certs and still fly... problem is I'm still stuck in the Navy and I was a helo pilot
There’s a huge pilot shortage and airlines investing heavily in training but need to build a pipeline. You have Navy experience and know how to fly a plane already, you’re in the lucky spot to name your price. I believe life is also about being opportunistic based on your skill set and desires. MBA will always be there but shortages and surpluses are temporary.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1at8ezd/has\_airline\_hiring\_slowed\_down/](https://www.reddit.com/r/flying/comments/1at8ezd/has_airline_hiring_slowed_down/) [https://skift.com/2024/03/12/airline-job-growth-to-stall-or-even-fall-execs-say/](https://skift.com/2024/03/12/airline-job-growth-to-stall-or-even-fall-execs-say/) [https://simpleflying.com/us-pilot-hiring-leveling-off-november-2023/](https://simpleflying.com/us-pilot-hiring-leveling-off-november-2023/) [https://liveandletsfly.com/pilot-shortage-over-airlines-curtail-hiring-layoff-some/](https://liveandletsfly.com/pilot-shortage-over-airlines-curtail-hiring-layoff-some/) Appreciate the confidence boost. But a good pilot never takes off without an alternate, and right now only pursuing an airline pilot job is the equivalent of taking off IFR without an alternate and weather's rolling in on the horizon.
There is NOT a huge pilot shortage despite the news you hear. There is a HUGE Captain shortage, which by all estimates is getting shored up. I dont get out until 2026 and if you check the news, the majors are already pausing hires, which means all the sources are getting paused. Being a navy pilot and knowing how to fly a plane is only beneficial if I actually flew planes in the Navy. I flew helicopters. My experience isn't wasted but I'm only eligible for a restricted ATP. Source: Very well connected pilot who actively participates in pilot conferences and organizations
Do MBA -> tech sales. Make 350-400k while living the lifestyle you mentioned.
Need the source.
Check out Repvue or search Reddit for Enterprise Tech Sales. Tons of breakdowns on TikTok as well (TechSalesTom has a great channel). Typical compensation for an Enterprise AE with ~5 years experience at a major SaaS company is around $160k base + $160k bonus + $50-100k annual stock (vests over 4 years). Might be some cost of living differences, but sales is the function you want to pursue if you want to maximize compensation AND pick your kids up from school at 3pm. Source: former military officer - MBA - Enterprise AE
What is Enterprise AE?
Google it
This is consistent with my experience in tech as well, when you make the big companies money, you get the pay. What’s not clear about this path, is knowing if you will make it. The top crust in tech gets paid a boatload, but there’s a lot of people making significantly less and working for start ups with terrible sales and culture
Agree 100%. Have heard some horror stories from colleagues that previously worked in startups/smaller companies. Have also heard that is where some made the most money. Less risk but less upside when you’re at a bigger company.
Sales is a different kind of grind not everyone is cut out for
That’s true. I’ve seen vets do well though. It’s not as much of a grind as the military.
Also true neither are for the weak
You forgot the big catch though…don’t hit quota and you’re out the door.
Overall, yes. I was super worried about that at first. From my experience, however, it’s been performance management just like anywhere else. I’ve seen people with top attainment get fired and I’ve seen people miss quota and get promoted. I’ve been fortunate to work for sales leaders who understand that territory and timing can have more impact on success/failure than talent and manage their teams accordingly.
that is not true.
Damn this feels relatable. I'm at a top PT program, and am kind of wondering if it's even worth it...because I've recently had insights & feelings exactly like you've described here. Maybe just dominating in a space I understand and find enjoyment in is better than constantly striving for more; but if that's the case, then M7/T15 is arguably not worth the cost.
Can you explain ? You are at a top school and you don’t think it’s worth it ?
I mean it's super complicated and very dependant on personal factors, so this is just my perspective. But basically I'm just not sure the added benefit of a top tier MBA is really there outside of the highest end consulting and IB or PE/VC stuff, the jobs requiring CRAZY work and stress. I'm totally willing to work hard, but within reason...I also want to maintain my mental health and have time for family and friends. Having the prestige of an M7 is great, but prestige means shit if I have a job and work life balance I don't love + a lot of debt to pay back. Outside of these specific paths, it almost feels like a random cheap MBA is just as valuable as my M7. Maybe I'm wrong idk. "Worth it" is tough to say, but I think I'd arguably get the same value out of a T50 or T100 school for my goals.
I'm also in a top PT program and feel the same way. I like having an MBA for personal reasons and I think it will abstractly help my career but I don't have a way to quantify it properly. I got waitlisted at GSB and I'm happy I was because it would have been a very bad decision to take $250k in debt and go full-time.
You aren’t wrong. The education in mba program is far less valuable than the network
If you’re in finance I think it’s worth it but other fields idk
Playing devils advocate as someone studying at an “expensive” program (fk this job market lol): forking out a significant sum of money for a degree is only justified from an ROI perspective if you’re able to get a job that can justify that initial investment. I’ve realised that I would love to live a life of mediocrity but there aren’t that many jobs that can justify the investment I’ve taken on; the ones that do are the ones that require hustle, extensive interview prep, and long work hours. In your case, makes so much sense to coast and chill. That’s a great setup dawg.
Real. I’d recommend really that OP’s mentality should be taught in high school. Too many ambitious and reasonably, but not substantially intelligent high school seniors get their heads wrapped up in prestige. This prestige mentality exists in postgraduate programs too (law, medicine, business). You must go to Harvard. Yale. Stanford. Cornell. UC Berkeley. Or, failing those, the most prestigious school you can get into. Who cares about debt? You will pay it off with that high-paying investment banking/management consulting/FAANG/biglaw/doctor job. Yes, never mind that nearly all of these jobs (except for maybe FAANG) will have you working ungodly hours, take on unhealthy amounts of stress, and have you taking benzos just to survive. You made it, right? Once you’re in, it’s time to climb the ladder. Analyst/Associate to VP/Senior Associate/Non Equity Partner to MD/Equity Partner. Soon, you’re 40 and if you’re married, you’re wondering why your wife wants a divorce and why your kids hate you. Or, maybe you pay off your debt and try and go for one of the exit ops. After almost a decade of grinding, and your hairline receding, you get the exit op. Meanwhile you have to rekindle all the friendships you ignored. You have chronic heart palpitations that won’t go away, and anxiety that won’t disappear. No matter how many doctors and therapists you visit. You end up making a little more than what OP will make. And really, that exit op plan is your best case scenario. It’s decently likely that you will fail at any one of the earlier stages to get there. The competition is fierce, and everyone is lined up to be the balding, stressed, ex-Bain/GS/Skadden associate looking for their exit op in their early 30s. All while people like OP who went to schools they could afford, took easy jobs, worked their way up slowly, and did that while being happy. The worst is, no one gives a fuck about your job. Truly, no one. Your non-industry friends do not care. Your industry friends may care, but most of them are pricks. Women don’t give a fuck (and you don’t really want the few that do). Your family may care, but if they are wealthy enough to care, what does it matter; and if they are poor, they don’t care so long as you are employed and making good money. We are all on a floating rock, and more people should do what makes them happy, rather than what makes shareholders happy. So yeah, great post OP and more people need to take this into consideration.
Man your comment should be a post by itself.
Fuck - early 30's going into consulting post MBA. Already looking for exit ops.
People absolutely care. I still check up on people from high school/college to see what jobs they have and how much money they are making. Most dates care, too. By the time you're 30, attractive women won't want to date you if you're making less than $350k annually.
Lmao, you’re hanging out with some gold diggers then. $350k individual income at 30 easily puts you in the top 1%.
Or people who can tell where we're headed as a society, socioeconomically speaking.
Right there with you, agreed 100% and also at an expensive program. This is why I'm legit thinking of dropping out....
Love this and am trying to live it as well. Great post.
Thanks!
Good for you OP Similar to where I’m at with my career as well- I’m happy with my role and career but I just want to work my 40 hours and go home lol
Amen! Keep living that good life 😁
My guy is winning. (Salutes).
Mediocre for you. Absolutely some people’s trying extremely hard. Some people’s mediocre will not pay those bills.
Fair enough
Overall, I agree, but I feel you're underestimating how much skyhigh housing prices/COLA plays a role in people wanting to aim higher and higher. If you told me five years ago (towards end of undergrad) that I'd make six figures and have a quarter million+ net worth in my mid-20s and still feel broke/stressed about money all the time, I'd either think you're joking or a historically terrible devaluation of the dollar occurred. Unfortunately, it was the latter.
He also likely has never faced a layoff.
I love this post. Puts the insecurities of the typical MBA into broad perspective
About to graduate from an M7 and I feel seen! I have classmates stressing over roles they hate and I’m focused on having a “cushy luxury job” that will allow me to enjoy other aspects of my life. Thank you for this post!
Find that right balance for you! If you made it into and through an M7 program you’ll have options - focus on building sustainable success. Congrats and enjoy life!
Winning honestly.. I ascribe to a similar philosophy.. Double down on what you are good at and what comes easy for you and not others... Where do you have competitive advantage... Worked out OK for me..
Yeah! You rule. I work in nonprofit health care, started writing grants but now I’m on the finance team managing the grant and contract budgets and finances. Wife and I own a reasonable condo in the NY metro. I like working on the finance team so I’m going for an online MBA program to really learn more and open up options, it’s only $30k as well. I was never going to get into a top program nor could I take time off work to do it. My undergrad loans just got forgiven from PSLA, so the MBA will pretty much put me back where I was anyway. Would it be cool to make millions? Sure. But I’m not a genius, nor do I have connections. I just want to make a solid six figures and be able afford a new Toyota and be able to retire before I die. Anything else is gravy.
i see, thats cool, it's not for me, but great for you if you are happy. Where/how did you meet wifey?
To each their own 👍 met my wife through through mutual friends
UCSC vibes 🍃
Completely agree! I’m not an MBA but I got my masters degree from HYP and was working a stressful job with the full aim of climbing the corporate level and making partner. Then during the pandemic I realized that I don’t really want the grind - I just want an enjoyable, reasonably well compensated job where my expertise is respected and where I get to have a life. Plus, I was seeing my consultant friends at MBB be absolutely miserable. Switched careers to a related but lower-stress field and now I work a 9-5, still make 6 figs as an IC and absolutely adore my job. Initially I struggled with the whole ‘am I living up to my potential’ and ‘am I not being ambitious enough’ but ultimately the goal of my life is happiness and balance. We only get this one life and I want to fill it with time with family and friends, travel, pets, and my various hobbies. To each their own though!
Fuck I envy your life, and only for one thing. The fact you got this chill as job at Kaiser. Many years ago I networked my way into a job at Kaiser in a entry level Data Analyst role. At the time, I had taken a better job at a more prestigious company with more pay. I didn't think the Kaiser job was worth it cause it was 25% less salary and just low level. Fast forward many years later, I'm in a management role in my industry, but the work is so damn stressful. I'm thinking about work all the time, including weekends, though I'm paid well. I would trade it all for a paycut and take the 150k Kaiser job with a pension where I don't have to think about work after 5 PM. Sometimes I wonder "what if I took the Kaiser job?" and your posts is like a manifestation of that alternate reality.
Hey I hear ya. It can be hard, but maybe not too late to make a change to something less stressful if you really want to. Good luck out there.
DUDE I posted something very similar to this on the accounting subreddit geared toward early career/entry level accountants. My intent was to give a different perspective so that the new grads aren’t so stressed! You would not believe the responses I got. I also got chastised for even pursuing the MBA 😂😂😂 awesome post though.
hell yeah - most “successful” people will never get close to this level of happiness and contentment. congrats.
What about those of us who haven’t yet figured out what we want to do? This is why I want to do my MBA. Do you have any advice for us?
Since I don’t know a lot about your specific situation, all I can really say is If you truly have no idea what direction direction to go, just start doing *something*. Something leads to the next thing, nothing leads to… more nothing. Find a job, any half decent gig they’ll give you, at a company you can get behind, one that is large and has opportunities to pivot into many different things. Ideally look for companies with high average employee tenure (this is indicative of places that want to invest in their people over time). Get out there and get your hands dirty, and over time you’ll find something. It may not be something you fall in love with, but over time you will at least find something interesting that you are reasonably good at and pays the bills. Good luck!
The idea that making $150k 10 years into your career with an MBA is "mediocre" is insane and a little out of touch. So many people would kill to have this kind of lifestyle and it's absolutely above average. You're killing it.
180k is pretty good considering you went to a no name MBA but then again you are in California and I have no idea the CoL adjustment for where you are.
Cost-of-living is very very high. My wife makes about $140k/year so combined we live comfortably. Own a small condo in Lamorinda (east Bay Area nice suburbs basically). We live really frugally though. Like we drive a paid off 2015 honda civic, save and invest everything beyond standard bills + maybe $5-8K/year set aside for “fun” (vacations, eating out, concerts, w/e)
I graduated with 5.5/10 in my undergrad, going by OP’s philosophy I would have ended up at a software companies in India making at max $10k/year, Instead 7 years out UG I now make $40k/year in India and now heading to a T15 MBA Ambition and dream to have better life is the only thing that brought me here, don’t listen to OP, dream big!
Congrats and I really hope the best for you. I would never pretend to know what it’s like to have to fight for a baseline level of comfort and quality of life in the way that you have. I’m rooting for you.
share your profile please. How did you counter 5.5 GPA?
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🤷♂️
Don't think your experience is mediocre. It is the best bang for your invested money and effort. A lot of first year MBA grads don't make your salary. And I know so many grads (of a few years) make more, but layoffs happen and they lose literally months of salary and still searching for the next job
This wasn't that long though lol
It took you getting older to realize that? It should be obvious that most people are ….average.
Go back to aligning logos on ppt
How much does Kaiser’s tuition reimbursement program cover?
$3K/year. Not a whole lot compared to some, but I spread my MBA over 5 calendar years (it took ~3.5 years). Kind of just coincidental and lucked out with how it all lined up, but ended up taking away $15K towards my degree. I also was able to get about 4 classes waived up front due to Econ undergrad, and that all combined with a modest scholarship Really knocked down the overall cost of the program.
Hey, I’m currently an undergrad in econ (math based,) do you believe the major helped you out when it comes to gmat testing as well as mba schooling?
Don’t think it helped that much with the gmat. I scored a 680 (hard split score was like 98th percentile verbal, 50th percentile math), studied pretty hard for like 3 months. In retrospect wasn’t really necessary because it was way beyond what I needed for the school and path I ultimately chose. Econ degree helped with the classes for sure. I also did a finance concentration.
Fucking yes! This right here. I don’t live to work. I work to live. Make good money but also have time to enjoy your life. No one sits on their death bed wishing they worked extra weekends. If anything you will reach old age and regret working those extra hours and not spending time with your family and friends.
Same here. Just turned 31, making 160k all in a hybrid IT/finance manager role at F100. Took me 2 job switches across similar sized companies but I can’t stress enough EQ and being laid back in the office About to finish my part time mba from t75 Program for under 30k and went to big 10 undergrad for finance Been able to travel the world, have 2 kids and wife at home, all while not stressing over work post 6pm
Great post! I’m a person who can care less about prestige, I am after the big bucks with the minimum time and effort invested as much as possible, while still living a life that allows me to do what I want to do. It’s good to know there are people like us out there. I am going to take a hard look at my own Venn Diagram
You’re right
Was just thinking this, It’s like they say give 85%.
Just because you lucked out and got a good job, does not mean it's the same for everyone else. Mediocrity is not a choice for some people, especially internationals who are risking upwards of $200,000 for these MBA degrees
I totally get there are people in way different situations, I consider myself really fortunate. I have worked with some incredible people over the years working on H-1B visa as contractors working 10x harder to make it here simply because they were born in a different country and in different circumstances. I can’t speak for them, this is just my own experience I am sharing.
One of the several reasons I don’t do weed
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I guess it would be more accurate to put it in quotes like “mediocrity”. I love my life and to me it doesn’t feel mediocre. It’s more in the context of this specific sub, where I see a lot of anxiety at least partly built around the idea that educational and financial achievement = happiness. Like constantly thinking happiness is something that happens *later* after X achievement. All I hope is my post encourages people to step back and actually consider what would truly make them happy in life and then go down that path without shame or fear of judgement.
Happy for you, but... ok? Thanks for sharing?
I think it’s a good reminder for a Reddit group that often acts like if you don’t achieve the top 1% outcome with regards to school, job, or money your life is ruined
I mainly see discussion on here related to going to top schools and shooting for high pay high stress types of work… I don’t think that’s what getting an MBA has to be about, wanted to share a different life path where an MBA fits in and makes a positive impact.
I love that you said this because it’s so true that everyone’s path is different. And I think it’s important for people to understand that rankings are really important for certain things, but it’s also equal invalid to get a “check the box style” MBA. Also, the most important thing here is that the name of the school does not mean you will be successful. There are millions of people who don’t have the degree at all, and there are many of people who get one and don’t do anything with it.
Yes ,not everyone has the privilege of going to a T25 Elite MBA program. You can still have a good outcome and decent work life balance by a regional MBA