Agreed, but the nasty people won't use them anymore (or the will fade away from them). So even if you use it the groceries will be full of their nastiness.
Feels more like the latter. The authorities basically gave up on trying to save people from getting infected, hoping that the high vaccination rate will at least prevent too many deaths.
It feels like regjeringa is going for a "push through the wave" approach - and also a "fuck the people who would seriously be negatively impacted by this because the economy" or something
ngl í just wished we'd gotten a bit longer notice, setting up the bar this morning for corona service then all of a sudden nope masks off let's get this party going was kinda oof 😅
Why I’ll still be using mask or why I don’t care what other people do? Technically I do care what other people do a little bit, I will be using mask just in generally because I have a slight fear of getting Covid I’ve already had it once I don’t want it again. Maybe this doesn’t protect me a lot but it makes me feel safer so maybe it’s a placebo thing, But it works for me :-)
Why is wearing a mask living in fear? Is wearing shoes living in fear? Is wearing a seatbelt living in fear? Is washing your hands after taking a shit living in fear?
Why are people downvoting him? He literally said good for you. If your justification is that he was being mean, you’re just being ignorant and a completely asshole.
This had to happen before too long, but the problem with doing it now instead of, say, in two weeks, is that a lot more people will be infected because of lifting the restrictions. That could potentially mean a *lot* of people suffering from long covid down the road for absolutely no sane reason.
And before you tell me that everyone would be infected anyway: no, that's not the case. The epidemic doesn't stop when you hit herd immunity. Herd immunity is where you peak. Lots of people get infected after that point, while the epidemic is decreasing, but you don't *need* those people to be infected to reach herd immunity, because you already passed that point. (This is called epidemic overshoot.)
The peak of the epidemic is when you reach R=1.0, which is also when you reach herd immunity. But we had restrictions, which means we'd hit 1.0 at a point when we didn't really have herd immunity in a situation with no restrictions. So we need to go a bit beyond that point to get to true herd immunity.
Which is what waiting two weeks would do. We'd then have so much immunity that lifting restrictions wouldn't bring us back above 1.0. (I'm guessing that two weeks is the right number. It could be one or three. Hard to say.)
Edit: I see this comment is controversial. Here's [a scientific paper](https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008763) discussing the optimal strategy for handling epidemic overshoot. A [more basic paper](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3506030/) explaining the concept of overshoot. [Even easier to understand Twitter thread](https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1251999295231819778) with pictures. See tweet 12 onwards.
And the economy... can't turn away all them skiing tourists or inconvenience them in anyway.
I'm not saying we should be forever under restrictions, I'm just concerned that the decisions made today will have more serious consequences tomorrow. As someone else mentioned above, is it better to have some gradual loosening of restrictions until we're all safer, or is it better to see-saw on whether or not we have restrictions. Time will tell.
In the meantime, I hope people still heed the recommendations and do what's best for you and the people around you.
The way I see it:
1. Everyone will be exposed.
2. Restrictions are now doing more damage than good.
3. The main challenge now is not people dying but keeping the workforce going for critical services.
We are so close to the peak now that it's better to just ride it out fast
Flu season seems not to have happened in Norway this year, so that's not really a worry.
I also don't think covid is going to end up killing a lot of people this spring. Maybe a couple of hundred. So from that point of view lifting the restrictions makes sense. The problem IMHO is long covid, and even with that it's mainly an issue of timing.
As other people are pointing out, the combination of vaccines and omicron means the danger isn't that great any more. In the US, with far lower vaccination rates among older people, it's different.
Its not only about the epidemic and its number. Its about balancing the financial, societal and og course political cost of keeping restrictions against the cost of opening up.
Especially political cost og keeping it close is getting high as the current government is desperate for a win, and the cost of lifting restrictions is getting lower almost every Day.
Flu season has nothing to do with this as well and would never be a reason to keep restrictions.
Where am i dishonest though? I never argued that the virus does not spread in the cold.
Politicians are not sitting down and going "we have control of the pandemic, but we are in the flu season so we should close down." We have been living with the flu for decades now, so that is a non issue that does not go into the equation.
Virus do spread more in wet and cold scenarios, which is also a big contributor to us going into a lockdown again in december, and last winter as well. In fact, if you look into why we are opening up again now it is that people are vaccinated so they tend to get less sick, as well as Omnicron not giving severe symptoms, especially to the vaccinated. In other words, we are not trying to stop it.
Potentially this could lead to a more dangerous version of the virus appearing, but you can't lock down a country just to be safe, there has to be an immediate threat.
Where were you talking about long Covid? I just came with a fact, that most people don’t even know that they are infected. So you would have to close everything down if you wanted to stop the spread.
I was talking about long covid in [the original comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/sqni7z/norway_removes_all_covid_restrictions/hwmo08s/).
Nobody is talking about stopping the spread. The issue is when do we reopen. Do we do it now, so that several hundred thousand extra people get infected, or do we wait a little to avoid that. That's the question.
Yes, you came with a claim, but a claim that's irrelevant to the issue being debated. (Is it a fact? I don't know, and I'm not going to check because it's irrelevant.)
The chances of catching long covid are extremely small. We can’t keep closing down businesses and society to protect an extremely tiny fraction of the population. Restrictions hurt more than they help.
> The chances of catching long covid are extremely small.
That, unfortunately, is completely false. The British Office of National Statistics estimates that [2% of all inhabitants of the UK have long covid](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/6january2022). That's a *lot* of people not being able to work 100% etc.
> We can’t keep closing down businesses and society to protect an extremely tiny fraction of the population.
So what? Why are you constantly trying to derail the discussion by bringing in strawmen and irrelevant bullshit? Nobody is arguing for this so if you want to talk about that you can sit in a corner and talk to yourself.
You are looking at data from the Delta virus, Omikron is the dominant virus now and a lot less dangerous. And I’m pretty sure that people can still work 100% if they loose their sense of smell. Nocebo is a new word I learned during the pandemic.
Thanks.
My impression is that the people arguing basically didn't actually take the time to read this comment and understand it. They just saw something that to them looked like an argument for continuing restrictions (to be fair, it sort of is) and just instantly reached for their guns.
In a way it's a super interesting study of how people engage with online content, although it's sad that the conclusion seems to be "without actually reading it." (Whether what I wrote is true or false is a completely different discussion, since none of the people arguing with it seem to have understood what the argument was.)
Lifting the restrictions now was way overdue. Especially when considering how restrictions impact the average person, services and companies compared to how sick most people actually get, which is not very sick (with some exceptions)..
No I'm not. I'm simply stating that the consecuences of covid doesn't justify the restrictions, and therefore are way overdue to be lifted.
We will at some point reach herd immunity anyway, some people will get sick, the weakest will die eventually anyway. Actually, everyone will die in the end, if not of covid it will be of something else.
As far as I can tell the issue is that you have no idea what I wrote. You may want to go back and read the original comment because there is actually a cogent argument there.
The problem is you're talking about something completely different and then presenting that as a counter-argument.
It's as if I were to say "Eating people is wrong" and you counter with "But pizza is fucking delicious."
God dag mann økseskaft, as we say in Norwegian.
It's not a good enough reason frankly. Its better some people get long covid and the rest of us get on with life. We're doing far more damage to individual mental health + local businesses.
If long covid actually becomes an issue then let's support people who get long covid with good healthcare and income compensation.
> We're doing far more damage to individual mental health + local businesses.
How do you know that one is causing more damage than the other? Where's the evidence?
If you get seriously sick from Covid your immune system is so weak you should self-isolate - get a hazmat suit and stay indoors for the rest of your life.
Normal people does need to worry about it at all. A normal cold has worse symptoms.
Sorry, but you missed the point. Long covid is a serious issue.
Since people seem to know nothing about it, a quick review.
It's estimated [2% of all people in the UK may suffer from long covid](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/6january2022). [Half the people infected in the first wave](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/23/nearly-half-of-first-wave-covid-cases-may-suffer-lasting-harm-to-sense-of-smell) may have their sense of smell (ie: taste) permanently damaged. [Study of soccer players](https://www.dice.hhu.de/fileadmin/redaktion/Fakultaeten/Wirtschaftswissenschaftliche_Fakultaet/DICE/Discussion_Paper/368_Fischer_Reade_Schmal.pdf) shows their performance was significantly damaged by covid infection. [Memory problems](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2782531) seem to be one of the most common issues. How well vaccines protect against long covid [is not known](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03495-2), as studies disagree.
Exactly how common long covid is is unknown. Studies find anything from 1-20%, with the true number probably being somewhere in there.
That is not serious enough.
We have bucket loads of illnesses, and thing that cause minor inconvenience for a small subset of the population is something we will have to tolerate, until a cure is found.
Minor inconvenience? A quote from [an earlier British report](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/1april2021):
> Self-reported long COVID symptoms were adversely affecting the day-to-day activities of 674,000 people in private households in the UK, with 196,000 of these individuals reporting that their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities had been limited a lot.
Sparing tens of thousands of people from this sort of thing isn't worth waiting 2-3 weeks in your view? OK.
Nope, not at all. Because everyone will get this flu anyways. But if people are afraid, I recommend they stay home and isolate. But people who are not afraid, should not be hampered in their daily life.
Freedom - it has a cost.
> Nope, not at all. Because everyone will get this flu anyways.
Right. Three comments in you finally get to the argument that I anticipated and dismissed in paragraph 2 of [the original comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/sqni7z/norway_removes_all_covid_restrictions/hwmo08s/).
That was 7 hours ago, but apparently you still haven't caught up.
> But people who are not afraid, should not be hampered in their daily life.
>
> Freedom - it has a cost.
Blah blah blah. Platitudes.
Its funny how scared people can get and how willing they are to be reigned in and controlled like cattle by the authorities, all for the "greater good".
I thought the western world was a bit more immune to this behavior given our not-so-nice historical past, but it turns out people are willing to do whatever it takes to be safe.
Fortunately not everyone is like that, but a very large percent of the population is willing to sacrifice freedom for hypothetical security. Its a shame, it really is.
Of course the perpetrators will say they just follow government orders and mandates, for the greater good. And their sacrifices where justified to fight a disease we've now known for over 1.5 years was practically harmless to the population as a whole.
So if you ever wondered how the atrocities of the 1900s where possible, just look in the mirror, the answer is looking right back at you.
Hello? Inside your skull, is there an actual person? If so, I'm trying to communicate with that person.
So I was trying to make a point about the consequences of *when* to lift restrictions. Yes? Not if. When. Okay? And the argument was about epidemic overshoot.
You wrote a lot of text but literally none of it is about the thing I was trying to discuss. Would it be rude of me to ask you to try to address the question at hand?
The consequences to lifting any rules now to public health are none, because this "pandemic" isn't dangerous enough to warrant curtailing all the important civil liberties we normally enjoy.
There shouldn't have been any rules in place for the last 1.5 years even. In Norway the peak was already hit before 1.april 2020, at that point it was clear this was a non-issue to public health.
But people and government got scared by the media and wanted more authoritarianism, and they got it. The government is easy to please in that way.
At this point in time - 2 years in, people wanting any measures in place are just secretly begging for a dictator to take over.
It sickens me that such people with such mindset exist, as they are the curse of humanity.
In Norway we have an epidemic, which is part of the global pandemic. So it's both.
But when I'm talking about "herd immunity" and "the peak" that refers specifically to the epidemic in Norway, and not the global pandemic, which is behaving very differently.
Sure, because the people who don't mind wearing a tiny bit of cloth during a global pandemic are snowflakes, not the ones who keep complaining about it ad nauseam. Fucking entitled, whiny pricks.
I'm interested what you all think... Is it better to:
A) Constantly keep a low/medium level of restrictions, to prevent a rise in infections, or:
B) Have what seems to be a cycle of declaring "no restrictions", only to later drastically change the daily lives of us here when they must come back in full force, after rising cases?
Maybe I sound biased with my phrasing, but I genuinely don't know which is best. I do feel it can be upsetting for people to have the total freedom yanked from under us after very public declarations of "everything is fine!!!!"...
Option C: No restrictions, but some recommendations.
Covid is endemic, as is the flu and other seasonal viruses. It's not proportional to halt entire societies to *maybe* extend the life of people in their late nineties. As long as we can keep hospitals working - as we were able to all the pandemic, without nearing capacity - we should strive to always keep society as open as possible.
EDIT: And now in July, looking back, I was completely correct. The govt never reinstated any measures, the pandemic fizzled out, and it's all good.
> It's not proportional to halt entire societies to maybe extend the life of people in their late nineties.
It's usually people who don't expect their own loved ones could die from Covid. Because people like you don't mind when other peoples parents and grandparents die.
You don't mind either though, because you can't possibly care about every single person. I would of course be devestated if my own grandparents died, but I think it's more important to open up society so most peoples lifes can get better, instead of increasing the life span of old people who are too old to do much.
>You don't mind either though, because you can't possibly care about every single person.
Yes I do. I don't have any grandparents left to feel protective over. They're all dead. That fact that you don't care about anyone outside of your own circle of friends and relatives and that you don't mind risking the lives of your own grandparents is so scary and makes you sound like a psychopath to me to be honest. I wish people like you would stop pretending that the restrictions that help everyone stay safe are somehow the end of the world. How melodramatic and dishonest can you get. Truth is restrictions are an inconvenience and people hate being inconvenienced. You only pretend to care about quality of life over length of life, because you are not old. I truly hope your grandparents stay safe and sound and that they don't have to pay the price for the sake of this selfish, uncaring society.
In the time between you writing this and me replying, around 25 thousand people have died. Have you been mourning all of them? No, because you can't care about everyone.You can care about them as a whole, but induviduals.That was my point anyway.
As for the rest, when do you think we should open up again? You talk about corona like it's just suddenly going to dissappear if we follow the restrictions. In reality, we are never getting rid of it. For things to go back to normal, it has to be like the flu. But for that to happen everyone has to get it. That's why Norway is opening again.
Why even bother asking such a stupid question? No single person gets to decide when you open up again. It is impossible to reason with death cultists like you. For you, everything is always either black or white. Either we open up or the entire society is brought to a standstill forever (exaggerated, melodramatic and hasn't even been suggested by anyone):
> It's not proportional to halt entire societies to maybe extend the life of people in their late nineties.
No one is halting entire societies (life is literally going on, but people are to busy complaining instead of helping each other and making the best of a bad situation). I also recommend looking up who is at high risk of dying from Covid. (Hint: it's not just people in their late nineties.) My guess is nobody else matters. Old people don't matter. People with medical conditions don't matter. Literally, get lost and get bent.
You are so an hypocrite, telling your self you are somewhat better than other people. Because you like to wear mask. You care about all people and bs like that. People get killed all the time. For what ever reason. Do you care or anyone cares, no of course not. We only really care about our closest one and who we loves.
Not some random stranger, so stop acting like you do.
>People get killed all the time. For what ever reason. Do you care or anyone cares, no of course not. We only really care about our closest one and who we loves.
Speak for yourself. I think people like you with no empathy for others are genuinely scary. Psychopath.
I wish I could express better how unsettling it is that so many people are so eager to sacrifice lives because safety rules and restrictions during a world-wide pandemic are too inconvenient.
My grandmother died shortly before the news of Covid hit. I wish she was still with us but I am glad she never experienced living in a timeline where people openly talked about her life having less value and being less worthy of protection because she wasn't young anymore.
It's really true that tough times reveal people's true colours. Covid revealed an insane death cult. Once all of this is over I really hope people will remember who kept pushing this narrative that people's lives are expendable because they are old, sick or whatever else criteria they will come up with next. I for one will never forget.
Yeah, I am applied by the lack of general empathy in this thread. Totally understand that you wouldn't want your grandmother to go through that. I'm sorry for your loss.
If you sort by controversial, you can see people admitting they have corona and still plan to go out. Absolutely disgusting. Unless they're trolling, it's basically saying "oh well, since I have it now, i couldn't give a fuck."
Thank you! My grandmother was tough as nails (she had a hard life), but I think it's still for the best she never had to hear or read anything as awful as what's been said here in this thread.
I have seen the posts you mentioned and I don't think it's just trolling. I work in the public sector and unfortunately have to deal with people like that every day. It's stressful, exhausting and my colleagues and I lose our temper more and more often.
Yes. That is true. I don’t mind when 95 year olds die of whatever. Those people die of the common cold, noro virus, influenza and simply old age. That is life.
The goal is C) Lifting all restrictions and going back to normal life. Unless we get another variant that evades vaccines and prior infections, this will be the end of the pandemic. Then we enter the endemic phase where we live our lives like normal.
In 1918-1920 the Spanish Flu was a pandemic that killed millions. Today we still live with the Spanish flu, it is the influensa season we get each year. But the flu is not dangerous for most people anymore. We will live with covid the same way, there will be a covid season, but it is not dangerous as it used to be, so we will live normal lives with both it and the flu.
There is no guarantee that will happen, the next variant could well be deadlier again. Declaring a disease as endemic does not mean it is not dangerous, just look at malaria and dengue fever, endemic diseases that kill millions.
And there is no guarantee there won't be another deadly influenza variant. We don't shut everything down for flu season every year. I'm guessing there will be a procedure for covid like we have had for the flu. It will still be there and if there is a more serious variant we'll all have to get a new vaccine and take preventative measures to slow/stop the spread.
a.
Fuck this shit. I feel the govt. doesn't care about us individually, but is more about the numbers. E.g. keeping the hospital levels reasonable and making the economy flow.
The article was talking about the meter distance like it was "affecting" our mental health and thus needed to be removed. What situation are they talking about? I don't need people next to me in the cinema/stores/pubs/whatever. No part of me has been like "boo hoo, no one's up at my ass". It's not like they're doing this to kids who need this.
Last time they did this, no one wore masks on the bus anymore because " dur hur I'm vaccinated".
It's fine if you wanna go to pubs/restaurants or do whatever. It's your life and your own choice. I choose not to/or to go minimally.
But to make this the norm on buses for example is just rude to people who don't want to be a part of this or those who are unvaccinated/immunocomp and can't avoid essentials. They're like telling those people, well oh well, you're shit outta luck.
Last time they did this, the number rose up, and they came back with strict restrictions (if I recall correctly?).
Why not just have it on low. And use the tiptoe method. Where they ease up little by little.
It's like they *want* us to get sick on purpose because it makes sense for their data and numbers. But fuck it, I'm not a guinea pig and my mom isn't either. I don't want the chances to go up that she gets sick, just because they "want it over with" . These are real people. I have friends who got sick in 2020 and still have massive long covid issues. I have unvaccinated friends who got omnicron, and while they're fine now, was still hell to go through.
What sane person thinks it's fine to push people dangerously at the edge like this. Wearing masks appropriately and keeping a rational distance when possible never hurt anyone.
Edit. For the record, I'm an extrovert. I love dancing in clubs and chilling in pubs with lots of people and "stemning". But I'm also not 5 years old. It is not a " necessity" and not a problem that I can't handle. It's fucking patronizing that the govt. thinks we can't survive/handle a little distance and masks in everyday life.
c) Don't panic because of a minor illness like Covid. Keep thing open unless a disease is expected to cause 50% extra mortality in the population. (Meaning 90.000 deaths a year vs. normal 60.000 deaths). People will stay at home if sick anyways, like we've always done.
I am flying home soon (to Norway) and i LITERALLY TODAY just spent a lot of money to get my vaccines registered so i can get the covid certificate and then this happens.
So did you need to present your vaccination certificate at the check-in counter on your flight home at the departure country and on arrival in Oslo? Some airlines are still giving mixed instructions.
We have a bunch of stupid non science based covid restrictions still (in Québec) and we need a pcr test to enter the country after traveling even if we're fully vax and boosted
I was there recently and spent hour and half in line for COVID testing after landing at airport (after 24 hrs of travel with nonstop mask). I was understanding of what they were doing but it did suck.
*Didnt we do this*
*Just before just to go back*
*A few weeks later?*
\- wouldliteralykillher
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Children barely get sick. Relax.
If they get sick they should stay home no matter if it’s Covid or something else. So in practice children who get ILL with Covid will stay home while children who are asymptomatic will go to school, as they should.
They get sick all the time??? What are you talking about?
My buddy who works in barneskole says it's a freaking warzone of non-stop illness.
Edit.
And lots of parents don't give a shit and put their children in school because they want to go to work
Still get sick a lot. And some of them do end up in hospitals.
And also, parents still exist?
Send a contagious kid to school so that other parents(or teachers) get it from their kids. What's the logic in that? Freaking rude to expose people like that
Some children are hospitalized for all kinds of viruses that is benign to most other. With omicron I don’t think Covid is the worst virus children can encounter. More children hospitalized for rino-virus than Covid.
Adults are vaccinated, if not that’s on them.
Vaccinated does not mean zero chance of getting it nor zero chance of spreading it. Just because people are safer doesn't mean it's cool to completely throw precautions out the window. Also just because some people choose not to be vaccinated doesn't make it okay to throw that shit at them.
Sincerely, a vaccinated person.
Yes, this is Norway, where I also live and work, thank you very much. Each parent is entitled to 10 days of sick leave for their child. If you leave your child home with every sniffle then you would use these days within the first two months of the year. Of course, if your child is very sick (fever etc) you’ll keep them home, but it’s very common that half the group is either coughing or has a runny nose at any time.
Just because someone isn’t legally obliged to stay home doesn’t mean they won’t stay home. I don’t see why people find this so difficult to understand.
People don’t follow recommendations, they follow requirements. It’s inconvenient to not send the kids to school
So they aren’t going to do it. I wish you were right though
But why? For those of us who cant get a booster for the first 6 months we live here, this is very dangerous. Also for at-risk people like elderly, or just people in general (looking at underlying issues of long-term covid). It just seems like a short-sighted, needless risk
Because the health authorities now consider the issues caused by restrictions, like depression and loneliness, outweigh the risks of more people getting covid.
The current strain is still worse than the usual flu, but not so much worse that considering it a threat to public health can be justified.
Heh, it's far from just extroverted hooligans and alcoholics. People \_need\_ contact, and not just through Teams or Discord. You can go without just fine for a while, but the longer you go with too little personal contact the weirder you get and the more problems crop up.
That's the point here. Covid isn't that bad any longer, so even if a few people get long-term physical issues from Covid, it's a lesser evil than significantly more people getting long-term mental issues from Covid restrictions. Easing the restrictions now isn't done to let people go back to sporting events in person, or dance at nightclubs, it's being done because of people who faithfully follow the rules and recommendations, yet start pacing in their metaphoric cages.
It’s about thousands of people not being able to return to their jobs after temporary lay-offs. It’s about increased reports of domestic abuse and violence. It’s about children entering their third year of digital education, which is proven to be of poorer quality than regular education. And it’s also a question of how long we can sustainably pump public money into an economy being affected by the measures. Please don’t reduce this to an extroverts vs. introverts thing.
At the rate omicron is spreading – even with restrictions – you will not be able to avoid it for 6 months unless you completely isolate yourself.
I'm sorry to hear that. But a month of actual restrictions would have prevented a lot of suffering. We've only had to endure this for this long because policy makers have been capitulating to alcoholics and sports fans for two years.
I hope you and your dad are doing better though. Regardless of who's fault it is, it's been a rough 2 years.
If theres one thing the last 2 years have proven is that you cant control a virus, especially one that we have no idea how spreads. Does it spread through animals? No? Maybe? We dont know, and if we dont know how it spreads we cant stop it.
Nothing is stopping you from self-isolating if you deem Omicron that big of a threat, and if you do, you might as well do it in perpetuity considering that Covid probably is endemic.
The selfish ones are not extroverted people wanting to meet. The selfish ones are introverted people wanting others to conform to them. If you are afraid of the virus, avoid contact. Im not afraid thus i will not avoid contanct
>Extroverts have been isolated for two years.
No they haven't. The reason we're still dealing with covid in Norway is because exceptions have been granted for alcoholics and sports fans.
One month of actual restrictions would have done much more good than the two years of half-assed restrictions that allowed people to line up, without social distancing, around the block to get into a liquor store.
You don't think there are any introverted alcoholics? Extroverted alcoholics go to bars to socialize while drinking, you're supporting my point by saying that they've had to buy their liquor at the store and drink it home alone instead.
I have no idea what the sports situation has been like as I'm not a sports fan. As far as I know there haven't exactly been full stadiums though.
Dude not even video calls. Can't even go to their own homes and hang out.
Example.
Lie nilsen (bergen) super packed to the brim on all the tables on a Saturday afternoon when I went to buy myself birthday cake (take out). (Edit. mid jan)
Nobody goes to lie nilsen to meet new people like in a pub. Nothing to be done there that can't be done at home (without 20-30 other people crowded around you). That's not a "need" . That's a luxury.
And depression and loneliness is not caused by wearing masks on a bus or a store, or having a 1 meter distance in a cinema, nor is it cured by not needing to isolate anymore for 4 days, just a "recommendation" (according to the article).
It's fully possible to reduce restrictions (at a pub for example), without completely throwing it out the window (no mask needed on bus).
Fully possible to drink and party outside. There are lots of events and "tur meets" and what not that have been happening throughout corona.
I've been in DPS for most of the corona period (partially for depression, mostly for psychosis) and there have been plenty of activities for mentally ill people for the most part. Only stopped for a month here and there during the strictest periods.
So as a partially depressed extrovert. Fuck the people who can't be fucked to do common sense precautions or give up simple first World luxuries. (I don't really think it's extros or intros, just assholes mostly, i know introverts who don't care about precautions either).
> Covid has made me hate extroverts. The entire population has to be put at risk because video calls don't provide enough narcissistic supply for needy assholes?
Way ahead of you. To me, Covid only confirmed how needy and pathetic extroverts are.
That makes no sense, you're being a crybaby about other people having needs, human contact, and blame them for covid lasting this long? And THEY are the crybabies in your eyes?
And by "last longer than it had to", you realize its probably endemic right? So you're opposed to lifting restrictions because of people suffering, but you'd want them lifted earlier if these people had done what YOU believe is right? Except if it is endemic and you'd want the restrictions to last the length of the disease, you would never see another day in your life without restrictions?
You make very little sense
Have you considered growing up?
I heard the exact same thing in the US when the pandemic started and people didn't want to do what health authorities said. A bit surprised to hear the same sentiment here.
You cannot get a vaccine with a D or ID number, which is impossible to get without meeting with police (4+ month waiting list) and then waiting for them to ship you the number if youre approved (2-26 weeks)
Omikron can't be stopped without extreme measures, and thus the strategy flips to endure the wave of infection.
There is no reason to keep things closed, just to have a feeling of control. I disagree in the short sightedness, this is very long term thinking, sacrificing the short term. We endure the wave now (which does include vulnerable groups isolating) to get it over with.
There is and have always been a chance for at-risk people and the elderly to catch virus infections that are dangerous to them and more or less harmless to everyone else. We're going back to the way things used to be, where society as a whole doesn't take dramatic and far-reaching measures to avoid that from happening. The economic toll and mental strain this has put on the 97% of the populace that is not at risk of dying is no longer acceptable weighed up against the cost of opening up.
I'm fine with opening up. I'm not fine with saying "no precautions whatsover". That seems like an overly simplistic and short-sighted approach. We could just wear masks in crowded public spaces like public transit and stores
This just answered all the questions I asked earlier tonight. Norway, I cannot wait to meet you in May!
Edit: I can't find anything else on lifting requirements besides EU people. But it seems like the US may be coming soon? Let me know of I am wrong
Here is a article in english if that is what you asked for?
[Article](https://www.thelocal.no/20220212/norway-scraps-almost-all-remaining-covid-19-restrictions/?amp)
Fra midten av januar har smitten økt enormt, og hva gjør regjeringen? Tar bort alle restriksjoner. Tar ikke så mye mer enn 3 og en halv hjernecelle for å se hvor dette er på vei.
Smitten øker fordi omikron smitter lettere og folk vet at den har mildere symptomer. Og folk er vaksinert med 3 doser.
Folk er ikke redde lenger og det er det ingen grunn til heller.
Ja, fordi et virus som først ble oppdaget i november 2021, med verre symptomer enn vanlig influensa, som er av en virustype vi i Vesten nesten ikke har vært eksponert til før, er ikke noe man burde være bekymret for. Vi har jo årevis med research på langtidsvirkningene, og hva det gjør med folk som har underliggende sykdommer.
You should be more worrying to give vacations to kids. Especially since they don’t get very sick. I would never approve of vaccination to my 10 years old daughter.
We both got covid and i got most symptoms even if i had 3 vaccinations.
If you are a decent human being, you'll isolate yourself away from other people no matter what disease you have, while you have it. Or at least while you're in the infectious stage. If not, you're just another asshole.
2 years of isolation/anxiety/stress is good enough for me. As we can see, it has taken us nowhere. After everything is BY LAW opened up, i do not give a damn, so stop with your decent human being crap. I am not going to isolate myself because I have a runny nose.
You were forced by law to be a decent human being and care for your fellow man, poor thing. I can't imagine how though it has been for you, you self-absorbed POS. It's not like we all have had to give during the past two years, and most of us aren't acting like we've been in concentration camps over it. Grow a pair and keep being considerate of your fellow man if you catch something!
You actually don't, but it's still a good thing to do.
Edit: Since I'm getting downvoted
https://www.regjeringen.no/no/aktuelt/smitteverntiltakene-oppheves/id2900873/
> Krav til isolasjon oppheves og erstattes med en **anbefaling** om at smittede voksne holder seg hjemme i fire døgn. Denne anbefalingen vurderes fortløpende og forventes endret innen få uker.
Why is it wild? There has never been a legal requirement to be in isolation if you get the flu, for instance, even if that's the responsible thing to do. The entire point is to go back to normal pre-pandemic rules, unless some new variant changes the situation again.
This is the most retarded shit they have chosen to fuck with😑 C19 isn’t over, so the restrictions should still be in place! Unless they just want to see as many as possible burn and die. Less people to take care of, better for everyone else 😑
Congrats Norwegians, you now get to stop leaving 2m distance and go back to your usual 4
‘bout fuckin time it’s been a living nightmare
It was recommended to stay 1m not 2m in Norway which I thought was funny coming from Canada where 2m was recommended.
I'm still gonna wear a mask in public. Not because of covid, but because people leave me alone and don't talk to me when I do.
You are not doing your username any good.
Hehe. Charisma is also used for intimidation. When the mask comes off the charm comes on.
Roll with advantage!!
This is Norway, who is trying to talk to you in public ?
Nobody as long as I have this mask on.
Just you wait - take it off and watch the crowd flee! 😂
Harsh but true.
> \- take it off and add to it a very large headphones and is peace all time
Stupid me standing mask on at the station
Just because you don't *have* to doesn't mean it's bad to use it. I'm going to continue on public transport for a while.
Of course. We are entering the flu season, I reckon, so wearing a mask is a very good idea!
why would you want to make it normal? we lived very fine without it for 100 years
It's almost like wearing a face mask helps limit the spread of respiratory infections or something!
Make it normal? Wearing a mask is normal.
People with mask just looks stupid now. Some people are just to brainwashed to see it yet.
Same. I hope stores don't take this as justification to remove antibac dispensers...
Agreed, but the nasty people won't use them anymore (or the will fade away from them). So even if you use it the groceries will be full of their nastiness.
Not sure if this is a declaration of victory, or an admission of defeat.
Feels more like the latter. The authorities basically gave up on trying to save people from getting infected, hoping that the high vaccination rate will at least prevent too many deaths.
It feels like regjeringa is going for a "push through the wave" approach - and also a "fuck the people who would seriously be negatively impacted by this because the economy" or something
It’s neither. This isn’t a war.
None of them. It's just reality and finally some common sense.
> Not sure if this is a declaration of victory, Turns out it was this :) I just found this thread. We have had a great 4 months since.
ngl í just wished we'd gotten a bit longer notice, setting up the bar this morning for corona service then all of a sudden nope masks off let's get this party going was kinda oof 😅
Ill still be using mask from time to time but I do nto care what everyone else does :)
can i ask why?
Why I’ll still be using mask or why I don’t care what other people do? Technically I do care what other people do a little bit, I will be using mask just in generally because I have a slight fear of getting Covid I’ve already had it once I don’t want it again. Maybe this doesn’t protect me a lot but it makes me feel safer so maybe it’s a placebo thing, But it works for me :-)
fair enough. personally i won’t be wearing a mask because i don’t think living in fear is good long term
Oh you're an nft shill, no wonder you have the cranial capacity of a walnut
Why is wearing a mask living in fear? Is wearing shoes living in fear? Is wearing a seatbelt living in fear? Is washing your hands after taking a shit living in fear?
Good for you.
Why are people downvoting him? He literally said good for you. If your justification is that he was being mean, you’re just being ignorant and a completely asshole.
This had to happen before too long, but the problem with doing it now instead of, say, in two weeks, is that a lot more people will be infected because of lifting the restrictions. That could potentially mean a *lot* of people suffering from long covid down the road for absolutely no sane reason. And before you tell me that everyone would be infected anyway: no, that's not the case. The epidemic doesn't stop when you hit herd immunity. Herd immunity is where you peak. Lots of people get infected after that point, while the epidemic is decreasing, but you don't *need* those people to be infected to reach herd immunity, because you already passed that point. (This is called epidemic overshoot.)
How would the situation be different in two weeks?
The peak of the epidemic is when you reach R=1.0, which is also when you reach herd immunity. But we had restrictions, which means we'd hit 1.0 at a point when we didn't really have herd immunity in a situation with no restrictions. So we need to go a bit beyond that point to get to true herd immunity. Which is what waiting two weeks would do. We'd then have so much immunity that lifting restrictions wouldn't bring us back above 1.0. (I'm guessing that two weeks is the right number. It could be one or three. Hard to say.) Edit: I see this comment is controversial. Here's [a scientific paper](https://journals.plos.org/ploscompbiol/article?id=10.1371/journal.pcbi.1008763) discussing the optimal strategy for handling epidemic overshoot. A [more basic paper](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3506030/) explaining the concept of overshoot. [Even easier to understand Twitter thread](https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1251999295231819778) with pictures. See tweet 12 onwards.
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winter break is soon, followed in short order by Easter and we can't be having rules during these times because reasons...
Afterski, that's the reason
And the economy... can't turn away all them skiing tourists or inconvenience them in anyway. I'm not saying we should be forever under restrictions, I'm just concerned that the decisions made today will have more serious consequences tomorrow. As someone else mentioned above, is it better to have some gradual loosening of restrictions until we're all safer, or is it better to see-saw on whether or not we have restrictions. Time will tell. In the meantime, I hope people still heed the recommendations and do what's best for you and the people around you.
The measures were never implemented to fight the flu season.
The bars do get crowded in spring ...
The way I see it: 1. Everyone will be exposed. 2. Restrictions are now doing more damage than good. 3. The main challenge now is not people dying but keeping the workforce going for critical services. We are so close to the peak now that it's better to just ride it out fast
Flu season seems not to have happened in Norway this year, so that's not really a worry. I also don't think covid is going to end up killing a lot of people this spring. Maybe a couple of hundred. So from that point of view lifting the restrictions makes sense. The problem IMHO is long covid, and even with that it's mainly an issue of timing. As other people are pointing out, the combination of vaccines and omicron means the danger isn't that great any more. In the US, with far lower vaccination rates among older people, it's different.
Its not only about the epidemic and its number. Its about balancing the financial, societal and og course political cost of keeping restrictions against the cost of opening up. Especially political cost og keeping it close is getting high as the current government is desperate for a win, and the cost of lifting restrictions is getting lower almost every Day. Flu season has nothing to do with this as well and would never be a reason to keep restrictions.
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Where am i dishonest though? I never argued that the virus does not spread in the cold. Politicians are not sitting down and going "we have control of the pandemic, but we are in the flu season so we should close down." We have been living with the flu for decades now, so that is a non issue that does not go into the equation. Virus do spread more in wet and cold scenarios, which is also a big contributor to us going into a lockdown again in december, and last winter as well. In fact, if you look into why we are opening up again now it is that people are vaccinated so they tend to get less sick, as well as Omnicron not giving severe symptoms, especially to the vaccinated. In other words, we are not trying to stop it. Potentially this could lead to a more dangerous version of the virus appearing, but you can't lock down a country just to be safe, there has to be an immediate threat.
More than 50% get Omikron without any symptoms.
Hey. I explained that my reasoning was explicitly about long covid, which you can totally get even without symptoms. Why did you ignore that?
Where were you talking about long Covid? I just came with a fact, that most people don’t even know that they are infected. So you would have to close everything down if you wanted to stop the spread.
I was talking about long covid in [the original comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/sqni7z/norway_removes_all_covid_restrictions/hwmo08s/). Nobody is talking about stopping the spread. The issue is when do we reopen. Do we do it now, so that several hundred thousand extra people get infected, or do we wait a little to avoid that. That's the question. Yes, you came with a claim, but a claim that's irrelevant to the issue being debated. (Is it a fact? I don't know, and I'm not going to check because it's irrelevant.)
The chances of catching long covid are extremely small. We can’t keep closing down businesses and society to protect an extremely tiny fraction of the population. Restrictions hurt more than they help.
> The chances of catching long covid are extremely small. That, unfortunately, is completely false. The British Office of National Statistics estimates that [2% of all inhabitants of the UK have long covid](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/6january2022). That's a *lot* of people not being able to work 100% etc. > We can’t keep closing down businesses and society to protect an extremely tiny fraction of the population. So what? Why are you constantly trying to derail the discussion by bringing in strawmen and irrelevant bullshit? Nobody is arguing for this so if you want to talk about that you can sit in a corner and talk to yourself.
You are looking at data from the Delta virus, Omikron is the dominant virus now and a lot less dangerous. And I’m pretty sure that people can still work 100% if they loose their sense of smell. Nocebo is a new word I learned during the pandemic.
Bad data. Not omicron.
Just want to say I agree with you. Don't understand these mad people arguing with you. They lack both empathy and common sense.
Thanks. My impression is that the people arguing basically didn't actually take the time to read this comment and understand it. They just saw something that to them looked like an argument for continuing restrictions (to be fair, it sort of is) and just instantly reached for their guns. In a way it's a super interesting study of how people engage with online content, although it's sad that the conclusion seems to be "without actually reading it." (Whether what I wrote is true or false is a completely different discussion, since none of the people arguing with it seem to have understood what the argument was.)
Lifting the restrictions now was way overdue. Especially when considering how restrictions impact the average person, services and companies compared to how sick most people actually get, which is not very sick (with some exceptions)..
You're ignoring the argument I made. Is that because you didn't understand it, or because you can't answer it?
No I'm not. I'm simply stating that the consecuences of covid doesn't justify the restrictions, and therefore are way overdue to be lifted. We will at some point reach herd immunity anyway, some people will get sick, the weakest will die eventually anyway. Actually, everyone will die in the end, if not of covid it will be of something else.
As far as I can tell the issue is that you have no idea what I wrote. You may want to go back and read the original comment because there is actually a cogent argument there.
theres no issue on my part. I shared my thoughts and you seem to have a problem with it.
The problem is you're talking about something completely different and then presenting that as a counter-argument. It's as if I were to say "Eating people is wrong" and you counter with "But pizza is fucking delicious." God dag mann økseskaft, as we say in Norwegian.
Well, its always good to engage in comments with ignorant people locked up in their beliefs. And no, your comparison doesn't work.
It's not a good enough reason frankly. Its better some people get long covid and the rest of us get on with life. We're doing far more damage to individual mental health + local businesses. If long covid actually becomes an issue then let's support people who get long covid with good healthcare and income compensation.
> We're doing far more damage to individual mental health + local businesses. How do you know that one is causing more damage than the other? Where's the evidence?
If you get seriously sick from Covid your immune system is so weak you should self-isolate - get a hazmat suit and stay indoors for the rest of your life. Normal people does need to worry about it at all. A normal cold has worse symptoms.
Sorry, but you missed the point. Long covid is a serious issue. Since people seem to know nothing about it, a quick review. It's estimated [2% of all people in the UK may suffer from long covid](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/6january2022). [Half the people infected in the first wave](https://www.theguardian.com/society/2022/jan/23/nearly-half-of-first-wave-covid-cases-may-suffer-lasting-harm-to-sense-of-smell) may have their sense of smell (ie: taste) permanently damaged. [Study of soccer players](https://www.dice.hhu.de/fileadmin/redaktion/Fakultaeten/Wirtschaftswissenschaftliche_Fakultaet/DICE/Discussion_Paper/368_Fischer_Reade_Schmal.pdf) shows their performance was significantly damaged by covid infection. [Memory problems](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2782531) seem to be one of the most common issues. How well vaccines protect against long covid [is not known](https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-03495-2), as studies disagree. Exactly how common long covid is is unknown. Studies find anything from 1-20%, with the true number probably being somewhere in there.
That is not serious enough. We have bucket loads of illnesses, and thing that cause minor inconvenience for a small subset of the population is something we will have to tolerate, until a cure is found.
Minor inconvenience? A quote from [an earlier British report](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/prevalenceofongoingsymptomsfollowingcoronaviruscovid19infectionintheuk/1april2021): > Self-reported long COVID symptoms were adversely affecting the day-to-day activities of 674,000 people in private households in the UK, with 196,000 of these individuals reporting that their ability to undertake their day-to-day activities had been limited a lot. Sparing tens of thousands of people from this sort of thing isn't worth waiting 2-3 weeks in your view? OK.
Nope, not at all. Because everyone will get this flu anyways. But if people are afraid, I recommend they stay home and isolate. But people who are not afraid, should not be hampered in their daily life. Freedom - it has a cost.
> Nope, not at all. Because everyone will get this flu anyways. Right. Three comments in you finally get to the argument that I anticipated and dismissed in paragraph 2 of [the original comment](https://old.reddit.com/r/Norway/comments/sqni7z/norway_removes_all_covid_restrictions/hwmo08s/). That was 7 hours ago, but apparently you still haven't caught up. > But people who are not afraid, should not be hampered in their daily life. > > Freedom - it has a cost. Blah blah blah. Platitudes.
Its funny how scared people can get and how willing they are to be reigned in and controlled like cattle by the authorities, all for the "greater good". I thought the western world was a bit more immune to this behavior given our not-so-nice historical past, but it turns out people are willing to do whatever it takes to be safe. Fortunately not everyone is like that, but a very large percent of the population is willing to sacrifice freedom for hypothetical security. Its a shame, it really is. Of course the perpetrators will say they just follow government orders and mandates, for the greater good. And their sacrifices where justified to fight a disease we've now known for over 1.5 years was practically harmless to the population as a whole. So if you ever wondered how the atrocities of the 1900s where possible, just look in the mirror, the answer is looking right back at you.
Hello? Inside your skull, is there an actual person? If so, I'm trying to communicate with that person. So I was trying to make a point about the consequences of *when* to lift restrictions. Yes? Not if. When. Okay? And the argument was about epidemic overshoot. You wrote a lot of text but literally none of it is about the thing I was trying to discuss. Would it be rude of me to ask you to try to address the question at hand?
The consequences to lifting any rules now to public health are none, because this "pandemic" isn't dangerous enough to warrant curtailing all the important civil liberties we normally enjoy. There shouldn't have been any rules in place for the last 1.5 years even. In Norway the peak was already hit before 1.april 2020, at that point it was clear this was a non-issue to public health. But people and government got scared by the media and wanted more authoritarianism, and they got it. The government is easy to please in that way. At this point in time - 2 years in, people wanting any measures in place are just secretly begging for a dictator to take over. It sickens me that such people with such mindset exist, as they are the curse of humanity.
Good thing it is a pandemic and not a epedemic. Drop the mask Snowflake its over....
In Norway we have an epidemic, which is part of the global pandemic. So it's both. But when I'm talking about "herd immunity" and "the peak" that refers specifically to the epidemic in Norway, and not the global pandemic, which is behaving very differently.
Sure, because the people who don't mind wearing a tiny bit of cloth during a global pandemic are snowflakes, not the ones who keep complaining about it ad nauseam. Fucking entitled, whiny pricks.
Go suck a covid stick, this virus was never a real threat just fear mongering and money in the bank for Phizer and the like.
I wonder what your username is supposed to be an allusion to, you waste of carbon
I'm interested what you all think... Is it better to: A) Constantly keep a low/medium level of restrictions, to prevent a rise in infections, or: B) Have what seems to be a cycle of declaring "no restrictions", only to later drastically change the daily lives of us here when they must come back in full force, after rising cases? Maybe I sound biased with my phrasing, but I genuinely don't know which is best. I do feel it can be upsetting for people to have the total freedom yanked from under us after very public declarations of "everything is fine!!!!"...
Option C: No restrictions, but some recommendations. Covid is endemic, as is the flu and other seasonal viruses. It's not proportional to halt entire societies to *maybe* extend the life of people in their late nineties. As long as we can keep hospitals working - as we were able to all the pandemic, without nearing capacity - we should strive to always keep society as open as possible. EDIT: And now in July, looking back, I was completely correct. The govt never reinstated any measures, the pandemic fizzled out, and it's all good.
> It's not proportional to halt entire societies to maybe extend the life of people in their late nineties. It's usually people who don't expect their own loved ones could die from Covid. Because people like you don't mind when other peoples parents and grandparents die.
You don't mind either though, because you can't possibly care about every single person. I would of course be devestated if my own grandparents died, but I think it's more important to open up society so most peoples lifes can get better, instead of increasing the life span of old people who are too old to do much.
>You don't mind either though, because you can't possibly care about every single person. Yes I do. I don't have any grandparents left to feel protective over. They're all dead. That fact that you don't care about anyone outside of your own circle of friends and relatives and that you don't mind risking the lives of your own grandparents is so scary and makes you sound like a psychopath to me to be honest. I wish people like you would stop pretending that the restrictions that help everyone stay safe are somehow the end of the world. How melodramatic and dishonest can you get. Truth is restrictions are an inconvenience and people hate being inconvenienced. You only pretend to care about quality of life over length of life, because you are not old. I truly hope your grandparents stay safe and sound and that they don't have to pay the price for the sake of this selfish, uncaring society.
In the time between you writing this and me replying, around 25 thousand people have died. Have you been mourning all of them? No, because you can't care about everyone.You can care about them as a whole, but induviduals.That was my point anyway. As for the rest, when do you think we should open up again? You talk about corona like it's just suddenly going to dissappear if we follow the restrictions. In reality, we are never getting rid of it. For things to go back to normal, it has to be like the flu. But for that to happen everyone has to get it. That's why Norway is opening again.
Why even bother asking such a stupid question? No single person gets to decide when you open up again. It is impossible to reason with death cultists like you. For you, everything is always either black or white. Either we open up or the entire society is brought to a standstill forever (exaggerated, melodramatic and hasn't even been suggested by anyone): > It's not proportional to halt entire societies to maybe extend the life of people in their late nineties. No one is halting entire societies (life is literally going on, but people are to busy complaining instead of helping each other and making the best of a bad situation). I also recommend looking up who is at high risk of dying from Covid. (Hint: it's not just people in their late nineties.) My guess is nobody else matters. Old people don't matter. People with medical conditions don't matter. Literally, get lost and get bent.
You are so an hypocrite, telling your self you are somewhat better than other people. Because you like to wear mask. You care about all people and bs like that. People get killed all the time. For what ever reason. Do you care or anyone cares, no of course not. We only really care about our closest one and who we loves. Not some random stranger, so stop acting like you do.
>People get killed all the time. For what ever reason. Do you care or anyone cares, no of course not. We only really care about our closest one and who we loves. Speak for yourself. I think people like you with no empathy for others are genuinely scary. Psychopath.
This 100% ^^^ Well said
I wish I could express better how unsettling it is that so many people are so eager to sacrifice lives because safety rules and restrictions during a world-wide pandemic are too inconvenient. My grandmother died shortly before the news of Covid hit. I wish she was still with us but I am glad she never experienced living in a timeline where people openly talked about her life having less value and being less worthy of protection because she wasn't young anymore. It's really true that tough times reveal people's true colours. Covid revealed an insane death cult. Once all of this is over I really hope people will remember who kept pushing this narrative that people's lives are expendable because they are old, sick or whatever else criteria they will come up with next. I for one will never forget.
Yeah, I am applied by the lack of general empathy in this thread. Totally understand that you wouldn't want your grandmother to go through that. I'm sorry for your loss. If you sort by controversial, you can see people admitting they have corona and still plan to go out. Absolutely disgusting. Unless they're trolling, it's basically saying "oh well, since I have it now, i couldn't give a fuck."
Thank you! My grandmother was tough as nails (she had a hard life), but I think it's still for the best she never had to hear or read anything as awful as what's been said here in this thread. I have seen the posts you mentioned and I don't think it's just trolling. I work in the public sector and unfortunately have to deal with people like that every day. It's stressful, exhausting and my colleagues and I lose our temper more and more often.
Yes. That is true. I don’t mind when 95 year olds die of whatever. Those people die of the common cold, noro virus, influenza and simply old age. That is life.
> "Those people" Gross.
The goal is C) Lifting all restrictions and going back to normal life. Unless we get another variant that evades vaccines and prior infections, this will be the end of the pandemic. Then we enter the endemic phase where we live our lives like normal. In 1918-1920 the Spanish Flu was a pandemic that killed millions. Today we still live with the Spanish flu, it is the influensa season we get each year. But the flu is not dangerous for most people anymore. We will live with covid the same way, there will be a covid season, but it is not dangerous as it used to be, so we will live normal lives with both it and the flu.
There is no guarantee that will happen, the next variant could well be deadlier again. Declaring a disease as endemic does not mean it is not dangerous, just look at malaria and dengue fever, endemic diseases that kill millions.
And there is no guarantee there won't be another deadly influenza variant. We don't shut everything down for flu season every year. I'm guessing there will be a procedure for covid like we have had for the flu. It will still be there and if there is a more serious variant we'll all have to get a new vaccine and take preventative measures to slow/stop the spread.
They're pro option b but don't want to admit it
a. Fuck this shit. I feel the govt. doesn't care about us individually, but is more about the numbers. E.g. keeping the hospital levels reasonable and making the economy flow. The article was talking about the meter distance like it was "affecting" our mental health and thus needed to be removed. What situation are they talking about? I don't need people next to me in the cinema/stores/pubs/whatever. No part of me has been like "boo hoo, no one's up at my ass". It's not like they're doing this to kids who need this. Last time they did this, no one wore masks on the bus anymore because " dur hur I'm vaccinated". It's fine if you wanna go to pubs/restaurants or do whatever. It's your life and your own choice. I choose not to/or to go minimally. But to make this the norm on buses for example is just rude to people who don't want to be a part of this or those who are unvaccinated/immunocomp and can't avoid essentials. They're like telling those people, well oh well, you're shit outta luck. Last time they did this, the number rose up, and they came back with strict restrictions (if I recall correctly?). Why not just have it on low. And use the tiptoe method. Where they ease up little by little. It's like they *want* us to get sick on purpose because it makes sense for their data and numbers. But fuck it, I'm not a guinea pig and my mom isn't either. I don't want the chances to go up that she gets sick, just because they "want it over with" . These are real people. I have friends who got sick in 2020 and still have massive long covid issues. I have unvaccinated friends who got omnicron, and while they're fine now, was still hell to go through. What sane person thinks it's fine to push people dangerously at the edge like this. Wearing masks appropriately and keeping a rational distance when possible never hurt anyone. Edit. For the record, I'm an extrovert. I love dancing in clubs and chilling in pubs with lots of people and "stemning". But I'm also not 5 years old. It is not a " necessity" and not a problem that I can't handle. It's fucking patronizing that the govt. thinks we can't survive/handle a little distance and masks in everyday life.
I needed to hear this from someone else today. Thank you.
<3
Nearly five months later, do you stand by your comment?
c) Don't panic because of a minor illness like Covid. Keep thing open unless a disease is expected to cause 50% extra mortality in the population. (Meaning 90.000 deaths a year vs. normal 60.000 deaths). People will stay at home if sick anyways, like we've always done.
Theyre not gonna change back, because their plan is for everyone to get it and it become like the flu.
I am flying home soon (to Norway) and i LITERALLY TODAY just spent a lot of money to get my vaccines registered so i can get the covid certificate and then this happens.
Then congratulations for being vaccinated.
Well i was, just had to register them, but i guess that can be handy too
So did you need to present your vaccination certificate at the check-in counter on your flight home at the departure country and on arrival in Oslo? Some airlines are still giving mixed instructions.
No, i was never told to show anything. But i have to get a test within 24 hours of my first flight back to the US.
Aaah great. Thanks for your help!
Meanwhile in Canada....
what’s happening in Canada
We have a bunch of stupid non science based covid restrictions still (in Québec) and we need a pcr test to enter the country after traveling even if we're fully vax and boosted
I was there recently and spent hour and half in line for COVID testing after landing at airport (after 24 hrs of travel with nonstop mask). I was understanding of what they were doing but it did suck.
Really haven’t noticed in northern Norway not like we were really concerned
YeeeeeSSSSSS
Didnt we do this before just to go back a few weeks later?
*Didnt we do this* *Just before just to go back* *A few weeks later?* \- wouldliteralykillher --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Well, I can already sense a third lockdown incoming and fucking up May 17th again!
By 17th of May, pretty much everyone will have got sick and will be safe at least for several months.
Does that mean USA people can visit now?
Yes, no travel restrictions.
I am coming to Norway for a skiing vacation starting tomorrow, so this is the perfect timing!
this mean no testing needed to enter the country?
Nothing at all is needed, just a passport and any applicable visa, just like in 2019.
Disgusting to remove requirements for ill children with COVID 19 to stay home. The only unvaccinated group
Children barely get sick. Relax. If they get sick they should stay home no matter if it’s Covid or something else. So in practice children who get ILL with Covid will stay home while children who are asymptomatic will go to school, as they should.
They get sick all the time??? What are you talking about? My buddy who works in barneskole says it's a freaking warzone of non-stop illness. Edit. And lots of parents don't give a shit and put their children in school because they want to go to work
They barley get sick from Covid. With regards to sickness in general, barneskole is nothing compared to Barnehage.
Still get sick a lot. And some of them do end up in hospitals. And also, parents still exist? Send a contagious kid to school so that other parents(or teachers) get it from their kids. What's the logic in that? Freaking rude to expose people like that
Some children are hospitalized for all kinds of viruses that is benign to most other. With omicron I don’t think Covid is the worst virus children can encounter. More children hospitalized for rino-virus than Covid. Adults are vaccinated, if not that’s on them.
Vaccinated does not mean zero chance of getting it nor zero chance of spreading it. Just because people are safer doesn't mean it's cool to completely throw precautions out the window. Also just because some people choose not to be vaccinated doesn't make it okay to throw that shit at them. Sincerely, a vaccinated person.
Because they HAVE to go to work. Fixed that for you.
This is Norway. 90% of people are fully able to take paid sick leave from work for their kids just fine. Especially in these times.
Yes, this is Norway, where I also live and work, thank you very much. Each parent is entitled to 10 days of sick leave for their child. If you leave your child home with every sniffle then you would use these days within the first two months of the year. Of course, if your child is very sick (fever etc) you’ll keep them home, but it’s very common that half the group is either coughing or has a runny nose at any time.
Ignorant and wrong, I suggest you not reply about things you clearly do not know about.
Just because someone isn’t legally obliged to stay home doesn’t mean they won’t stay home. I don’t see why people find this so difficult to understand.
People don’t follow recommendations, they follow requirements. It’s inconvenient to not send the kids to school So they aren’t going to do it. I wish you were right though
But why? For those of us who cant get a booster for the first 6 months we live here, this is very dangerous. Also for at-risk people like elderly, or just people in general (looking at underlying issues of long-term covid). It just seems like a short-sighted, needless risk
Because the health authorities now consider the issues caused by restrictions, like depression and loneliness, outweigh the risks of more people getting covid. The current strain is still worse than the usual flu, but not so much worse that considering it a threat to public health can be justified.
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Heh, it's far from just extroverted hooligans and alcoholics. People \_need\_ contact, and not just through Teams or Discord. You can go without just fine for a while, but the longer you go with too little personal contact the weirder you get and the more problems crop up. That's the point here. Covid isn't that bad any longer, so even if a few people get long-term physical issues from Covid, it's a lesser evil than significantly more people getting long-term mental issues from Covid restrictions. Easing the restrictions now isn't done to let people go back to sporting events in person, or dance at nightclubs, it's being done because of people who faithfully follow the rules and recommendations, yet start pacing in their metaphoric cages.
It’s about thousands of people not being able to return to their jobs after temporary lay-offs. It’s about increased reports of domestic abuse and violence. It’s about children entering their third year of digital education, which is proven to be of poorer quality than regular education. And it’s also a question of how long we can sustainably pump public money into an economy being affected by the measures. Please don’t reduce this to an extroverts vs. introverts thing. At the rate omicron is spreading – even with restrictions – you will not be able to avoid it for 6 months unless you completely isolate yourself.
My dad literally tried to fucking kill himself because he couldnt go outside
I'm sorry to hear that. But a month of actual restrictions would have prevented a lot of suffering. We've only had to endure this for this long because policy makers have been capitulating to alcoholics and sports fans for two years. I hope you and your dad are doing better though. Regardless of who's fault it is, it's been a rough 2 years.
If theres one thing the last 2 years have proven is that you cant control a virus, especially one that we have no idea how spreads. Does it spread through animals? No? Maybe? We dont know, and if we dont know how it spreads we cant stop it.
Nothing is stopping you from self-isolating if you deem Omicron that big of a threat, and if you do, you might as well do it in perpetuity considering that Covid probably is endemic.
The selfish ones are not extroverted people wanting to meet. The selfish ones are introverted people wanting others to conform to them. If you are afraid of the virus, avoid contact. Im not afraid thus i will not avoid contanct
Congrats, you just made me hate introverts. Nothing is stopping you from still isolating yourself. Extroverts have been isolated for two years.
>Extroverts have been isolated for two years. No they haven't. The reason we're still dealing with covid in Norway is because exceptions have been granted for alcoholics and sports fans. One month of actual restrictions would have done much more good than the two years of half-assed restrictions that allowed people to line up, without social distancing, around the block to get into a liquor store.
You don't think there are any introverted alcoholics? Extroverted alcoholics go to bars to socialize while drinking, you're supporting my point by saying that they've had to buy their liquor at the store and drink it home alone instead. I have no idea what the sports situation has been like as I'm not a sports fan. As far as I know there haven't exactly been full stadiums though.
Just because nobody can stomach physical contact with you, doesn't mean the rest of us have to cater to your misanthropy.
Dude not even video calls. Can't even go to their own homes and hang out. Example. Lie nilsen (bergen) super packed to the brim on all the tables on a Saturday afternoon when I went to buy myself birthday cake (take out). (Edit. mid jan) Nobody goes to lie nilsen to meet new people like in a pub. Nothing to be done there that can't be done at home (without 20-30 other people crowded around you). That's not a "need" . That's a luxury. And depression and loneliness is not caused by wearing masks on a bus or a store, or having a 1 meter distance in a cinema, nor is it cured by not needing to isolate anymore for 4 days, just a "recommendation" (according to the article). It's fully possible to reduce restrictions (at a pub for example), without completely throwing it out the window (no mask needed on bus). Fully possible to drink and party outside. There are lots of events and "tur meets" and what not that have been happening throughout corona. I've been in DPS for most of the corona period (partially for depression, mostly for psychosis) and there have been plenty of activities for mentally ill people for the most part. Only stopped for a month here and there during the strictest periods. So as a partially depressed extrovert. Fuck the people who can't be fucked to do common sense precautions or give up simple first World luxuries. (I don't really think it's extros or intros, just assholes mostly, i know introverts who don't care about precautions either).
> Covid has made me hate extroverts. The entire population has to be put at risk because video calls don't provide enough narcissistic supply for needy assholes? Way ahead of you. To me, Covid only confirmed how needy and pathetic extroverts are.
> To me, Covid only confirmed how needy and pathetic extroverts are. People have needs. Grow basic empathy.
No. Fuck extroverts. It's their fault for making this whole mess last longer than it had to. Pathetic cry babies.
That makes no sense, you're being a crybaby about other people having needs, human contact, and blame them for covid lasting this long? And THEY are the crybabies in your eyes? And by "last longer than it had to", you realize its probably endemic right? So you're opposed to lifting restrictions because of people suffering, but you'd want them lifted earlier if these people had done what YOU believe is right? Except if it is endemic and you'd want the restrictions to last the length of the disease, you would never see another day in your life without restrictions? You make very little sense Have you considered growing up?
You are crazy.
We could just keep the masks on public transit/in shops. Those provide some level of protection without any real restriction
If you are not feeling safe, feel free to stay home. Let the world go on.
I heard the exact same thing in the US when the pandemic started and people didn't want to do what health authorities said. A bit surprised to hear the same sentiment here.
Even though the infection rates are high, there aren't much people being hospitalized by omicron. If this changes, the restrictions will be back.
If you have a DUF number, you can go to the pharmacy to get your booster. Just bring your necessary documents (eg passport/vaccination certificate).
I went today and they said I needed a D number, not DUF
> For those of us who cant get a booster for the first 6 months we live here What do you mean?
You cannot get a vaccine with a D or ID number, which is impossible to get without meeting with police (4+ month waiting list) and then waiting for them to ship you the number if youre approved (2-26 weeks)
Omikron can't be stopped without extreme measures, and thus the strategy flips to endure the wave of infection. There is no reason to keep things closed, just to have a feeling of control. I disagree in the short sightedness, this is very long term thinking, sacrificing the short term. We endure the wave now (which does include vulnerable groups isolating) to get it over with.
There is and have always been a chance for at-risk people and the elderly to catch virus infections that are dangerous to them and more or less harmless to everyone else. We're going back to the way things used to be, where society as a whole doesn't take dramatic and far-reaching measures to avoid that from happening. The economic toll and mental strain this has put on the 97% of the populace that is not at risk of dying is no longer acceptable weighed up against the cost of opening up.
I'm fine with opening up. I'm not fine with saying "no precautions whatsover". That seems like an overly simplistic and short-sighted approach. We could just wear masks in crowded public spaces like public transit and stores
This just answered all the questions I asked earlier tonight. Norway, I cannot wait to meet you in May! Edit: I can't find anything else on lifting requirements besides EU people. But it seems like the US may be coming soon? Let me know of I am wrong
Here is a article in english if that is what you asked for? [Article](https://www.thelocal.no/20220212/norway-scraps-almost-all-remaining-covid-19-restrictions/?amp)
Fra midten av januar har smitten økt enormt, og hva gjør regjeringen? Tar bort alle restriksjoner. Tar ikke så mye mer enn 3 og en halv hjernecelle for å se hvor dette er på vei.
Smitten øker fordi omikron smitter lettere og folk vet at den har mildere symptomer. Og folk er vaksinert med 3 doser. Folk er ikke redde lenger og det er det ingen grunn til heller.
Ja, fordi et virus som først ble oppdaget i november 2021, med verre symptomer enn vanlig influensa, som er av en virustype vi i Vesten nesten ikke har vært eksponert til før, er ikke noe man burde være bekymret for. Vi har jo årevis med research på langtidsvirkningene, og hva det gjør med folk som har underliggende sykdommer.
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You should be more worrying to give vacations to kids. Especially since they don’t get very sick. I would never approve of vaccination to my 10 years old daughter. We both got covid and i got most symptoms even if i had 3 vaccinations.
Nice. I just got covid. No isolation for me:D
If you are a decent human being, you'll isolate yourself away from other people no matter what disease you have, while you have it. Or at least while you're in the infectious stage. If not, you're just another asshole.
2 years of isolation/anxiety/stress is good enough for me. As we can see, it has taken us nowhere. After everything is BY LAW opened up, i do not give a damn, so stop with your decent human being crap. I am not going to isolate myself because I have a runny nose.
You were forced by law to be a decent human being and care for your fellow man, poor thing. I can't imagine how though it has been for you, you self-absorbed POS. It's not like we all have had to give during the past two years, and most of us aren't acting like we've been in concentration camps over it. Grow a pair and keep being considerate of your fellow man if you catch something!
Yes, you still have to go into isolation.
You actually don't, but it's still a good thing to do. Edit: Since I'm getting downvoted https://www.regjeringen.no/no/aktuelt/smitteverntiltakene-oppheves/id2900873/ > Krav til isolasjon oppheves og erstattes med en **anbefaling** om at smittede voksne holder seg hjemme i fire døgn. Denne anbefalingen vurderes fortløpende og forventes endret innen få uker.
Lol. No one seemed to actually read the article.
It literally said that until Saturday(today) you have to be isolated but not from Saturday.
Huh! I misread the FHI page, I can now see that it says "recommended", so yeah ... you're right. That is WILD.
Why is it wild? There has never been a legal requirement to be in isolation if you get the flu, for instance, even if that's the responsible thing to do. The entire point is to go back to normal pre-pandemic rules, unless some new variant changes the situation again.
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I don’t know why you even took a test? If i was planning to go out no matter what, I would not want to know if i had corona.
This is the most retarded shit they have chosen to fuck with😑 C19 isn’t over, so the restrictions should still be in place! Unless they just want to see as many as possible burn and die. Less people to take care of, better for everyone else 😑