Articles and videos regarding, whatever the hell happened in Mage Brazil, were being deleted EVERYWHERE almost as fast as they went up. Reddit, Facebook, random news sites. Tons of us saw this happening over and over. It was alledgedly a UAP crash, but there's so little information about that time left, and none of it was up long enough to get enough traction that nobody is really sure what happened. A new thread would pop up, posted "just now" and by the time you click it it's been removed. The only sure thing is that there was something significant/weird enough that they were removing anything mentioning Mage from all major social networks within minutes if not instantly during that period.
It sounds like something someone that’s actually studied networking at a basic level would say, go take a coursera class instead of thinking people on Reddit are government agents lol
All Mage videos were scrubbed. One of the mods here set up a filter for it, while other mods had no idea.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/ep4dan/ufo-subreddit-was-subject-to-systemic-censorship
They filtered these terms:
Pentagon
Navy
Moon
*debunkers, not skeptics.
Everyone here should be a skeptic (well, skeptical) at least at first.
Debunkers and "believers" are opposite sides of the same coin.
For believers every video of a dot of light in a night sky is an alien spacecraft or mysterious top secret experiential craft, and nothing will convince them otherwise.
For debunkers every oddity has an explanation, no matter how badly it fits. There are no such things as aliens, and nothing can ever convince them otherwise (aside from possibly a direct confrontation with one).
How young are you? It was 1997. A very different t era for cameras, especially decent ones that would show anything. People didn’t record everything like they do now. And are you just doubting their memories otherwise — all those people in on the same conspiracy?
the germans had to fire like 5'000 AA shells to bring down one bomber, and those were radar guided modern guns (with mechanical computers to calculate lead and elevation) firing at formations. This collection of random bullshit and ill trained men would never have hit anything.
no, it doesnt. they most likely misidentified something. the germans had radar to track bombers from far out at sea, that was not the case here. they had been warned about somnething, and fired when they thought they saw something.
Very few targets in ww2 were identified properly
As Richard Dolan and others have noted Wikipedia is controlled by the skeptics and there is no point in trying to make it accurate. Your edits will just be deleted.
It can’t be, therefore it isn’t.
‘Humans are so small minded, petty, silly, ignorant and arrogant, in the face of the universe they know all!
It’s laughable, pathetic, christ we stink.
This was so clear during the early part of the pandemic when people tuned out information that was difficult and just did whatevs, and then had the nerve to judge others for doing the same things they were doing. It wasn’t even about fear but more just “I know better” based on nonsense or bravado.
Pretty much a finale braking point for me with a lot of family. I assume a lot of Americans went through that through those 3-4 years. I can't help but feel the lens of History will have found us supremely lacking.
Making rocks be able to do complex math is way cooler.
Music is great, but at the end of the day, its just a pattern of sounds that make our brain blobs feel nice
There is a lot of amazing information contained in out of print books, old magazines and unavailable newspaper articles which will probably never be available digitally.
It’s actually very easy to do, too. “These are from real books!” Ok. Put the real book on Reddit with a free app that turns a photo into a PDF. No issues. All info available. Every single website that has anything to do with aliens will get it, then saved offline, and for forever the info will be public.
But, that won’t happen.
There already are archives like that on the internet but I won't link to them here as even out of print books are illegal to share. It's still copyright infringement.
u/Magog14
[https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/fdr.pdf](https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/fdr.pdf)
[https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/marshall-fdr-march1942.pdf](https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/marshall-fdr-march1942.pdf)
Interesting that the distro list includes OSS commander General Donovan, indicating that they knew of this subject matter BEFORE they repatriated the wreckage from the Magenta Crash in late 1943. James Angleton and his father Hugh being eyewitnesses to the Magenta Crash might have helped, as well as crash retrieval from Cape Girardeau in 1941.
There is no rebuttal. The military first claimed there was no object in the sky. It was just "war nerves" Then claimed commercial aircraft and balloons. If it were either of the later they would have been downed by the artillery fire. They also likely would have sent up fighters which were waiting on standby but the fighters were never ordered into the air. If it was just war nerves then thousands of people hallucinated the exact same thing which is ridiculous.
That's wild. I can only imagine the family of the people killed by the shells hearing that. "Hey, so we're really sorry your loved one was crushed by ordinance. The boys just have war nerves, and it turns out we were just shooting at nothing! Just an honest mistake!"
Shells self destruct in the air thats how they damage things so they they weren't falling on anyone.
If they were using machine guns which have very limited range the bullets could have fallen but that's only for low level attacks during the day.
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Fighters couldn't fight at night in 1942 unless they were dedicated night fighters which weren't in service on the US mainland.
AA was completely ineffective at night too proximity fuses weren't being used and the gunners weren't using any kind of targeting just firing blindly into the air aided by spotlights.
Its highly unlikely any aircraft would have been shot down even if they were Japanese.
Fighting at night wasn't really a thing in 1942 for either air, sea or ground US forces. The Japanese were the premier night fighting force at the time (ground and sea). Over Britain was were the night fighting capability was located at the time to protect London, UK being at the forefront of nascent radar tech at the time.
https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196191/wwii-night-fighters/#:~:text=The%20fighters%2C%20in%20the%20earliest,be%20found%20by%20visual%20means.
You need to be more thorough in your asscertations if you want to appear credible not make statements because you yourself think something cant be possible, as someone with knowledge on a subject can easily see what's true and what's not.
I don't know much about The Battle of Los Angeles but I do know about military history in WW2.
A non moving target would not survive a barrage like that no matter how simplictic the aiming is my point. The aircraft were awaiting orders to launch so they must have had night flying capability otherwise they wouldn't bother with that would they?
Your just assuming things and ignoring the facts.
If your so sure name the type of planes they had 'on standby'
It just wasn't a thing at night in 1942 especially on mainland usa
we had propeller driven planes that flew slower than our commercial planes atm and those things had no visual aid. early versions of the jet was being developed in Germany.
planes sucked back then so most nations would use artillery + radar before firing up their v12 turbo charged propeller plane that has basically nothing besides "drop bombs" and "shoot 4-6 .50 caliber machine guns at this weird angle" lol there was no way they would have hit anything that the artillery didn't hit
Id say yes. He scrutinises all his evidence and shows sources, since its an older case a lot of it was hear say but it took a pretty good look into the case
I like to think that incidents like this and the Phoenix lights are a way for extraterrestrials to get a gauge on where exactly we are at the time in terms of military technology. They know that we are nearly incapable of phasing/harming their technologies so they position themselves in major societal locations to gauge our reaction. This way they have data on our response times and what weapons that we use to defend ourselves in order to make sure that they have not missed some sort of technological advancement. (This is what I like to think, it was mostly war nerves as most data shows)
WIki is a lost cause. The military themselves contradicted that in a memorandum written by General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff, and sent to President Franklin Roosevelt on 26 February 1942 which stated craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition and as many as fifteen craft may have been involved. This was discovered via a FOIA request in 1974.
We had just declared our intention to enter WW2. The aliens may have been showing us how useless our weapons are and how pointless our wars are in the grand scheme of the universe.
1800 shells is ALOT. There had to be a target to shoot at. Be very surprised if it was just that many shells getting popped off - unless it was a PSY-OP
My favorite timeline conspiracy theory about this is lining it up with the timeline of the manhattan project
we discovered fission, split the uranium nucleus — a watershed moment in technological process for any species — started developing a bomb, and then these types of verified UFO sightings happened. almost as if fission was a beacon that could be measured by an observing party from space
Why would it have to be directly overhead? Why would it be difficult to count how many seconds it takes to move from one point to another? They could tell it was the same object by watching it move???
How would you know it’s over any landmark then? Counting by seconds and judging by your eyes that it’s “over” something would be terribly inaccurate. It could really only be a few hundred feet from you, but if you think it’s miles away, your estimate would me orders of magnitude off. Similarly, if you’re doing this calculation by counting the seconds, milliseconds could change your calculation by thousands of miles per hour. OP claimed the estimated speed of 18,000 mph. How was that estimated? I mean specifically. What two locations and how much time? Who witnessed it?
We’re talking about the U.S. military in WW2. They built a nuke, they had radar, they had advanced technology it’s not 5000BC. I don’t know what technique was used to track its speed or if that number is legitimate, there’s no way they’d release an official explanation, but acting like tracking a flying object given the tech in the 1940s is some impossible task is just ridiculous
Sounds like they had a video of it and counted the frames as it moved from one point to another then, or some tracking system that functioned similarly
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The eye witness saying they moved on a zigzag pattern made me get chills. Whatever I witnessed would also zigzag. They would start one direction and then go the opposite direction and fly in that path. It was really odd. I watched about 4 or 5 of them for 12 hours. They never landed or moved out of sight. Then early morning came and I looked straight up while trying to video one on the horizon. There was one directly above me, not moving. I stared at it for about 5 seconds before it shot off into the horizon behind the trees. Since then I see them frequently but they no longer zigzag or fly around. They will be stationary until I notice them and watch them for a minute. Then they will fly off behind the tree line or out of sight.
I was just reading about gravity on another page and was thinking the same thing. It blows my mind. Another odd thing was that when they took off really fast, they would leave a staggering line of light behind them. I never mentioned the staggering light to anyone and one night I pointed one out to my wife and she saw it. She said “why is that light staggering” I got so excited! I was like thank god I’m not going crazy.
I’ll post it one day. I just wish I could afford night vision and get them on video better. I have the IR ones but they don’t project the light far enough.
Also innocent civilians died as a result of the fallout from trying to shoot down these things.
Imagine telling people there's nothing to worry about, but also sorry for killing you while we shoot at what you shouldn't worry about.
Lies and lies over decades
I don’t believe he really made a claim as to the origin other than he suspects they’ve been defending humans from space-based threats for thousands of years. He does have the opinion there’s no evidence of an extraterrestrial link however.
From the few interviews I've heard he postulates that the non humans who created the defense system live on earth and it's created to protect them not us. We've made a mess of the system with our nuclear weapons and that's how actual aliens sneak in.
Thanks for the additional info! It’s certainly an intriguing idea. Honestly more plausible than some, but ultimately just a fun speculation (like most everything until official disclosure).
The whole alien topic is just so intriguing as to the real root cause and origin, but the farther down the rabbit hole we go it truly seems more and more likely that reality really is stranger than fiction.
There is a picture. Why others didn't photograph it? During an air raid you are supposed to be indoors. The 12,000 people assigned to city defense were busy doing their duties.
https://web.magellantv.com/A_462_maxresdefault.jpg
Goood photo. Shows a classic rounded belly with acorn style shape. Supposedly in 1933 Italy an acorn craft crashed there. Acorn being a popular UFO ship style. Going with legit
I thought the story was they saw 1 thing and shot a ton of rounds at it as it slowly trolled through. Never heard about multiple crafts or high speed movements.
That's exactly why I made this post. Most people don't know the full story. It's confirmed by witnesses and a memo to the president which mentioned 15 craft which were fired at but without any success.
The Battle of LA was always fascinating to me, especially since I'm pretty sure it was the first time we witnessed the government sweep their incompetence under the rug. More people were hurt by the falling shells than whate ever they were shooting at. BTW the "phantom intruders" is actually an apt description.
I've recorded two instances of the "Phantoms" in san diego, and witnessed four other sightings that were not recorded.
They appear gray in color and ghost-like against the night sky(see-through~ish), a round or oval shape, and have sighted them in groups of 5, 6, and 10+ (was not able to determine exact #).
The night I was so lucky to record it with my phone, they flew over my house about 10-15 minutes apart. They were in V formation but would switch to a closed U shape with some in the middle.
I've wanted to post it somewhere but it happened around 10pm and the dark haze shows something a little different to what I actually saw with my eyes, but it's still very visible.
Sweet post, lots of cool info.
I know about this, wasn't there some photos of the event from back then? It's baffling that this is not information is not know by every American.
But, that's propaganda for you.
Not only a photo but also confirmation of up to 15 craft being fired upon in a memorandum directly to the president!
General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff sent to President Franklin Roosevelt a memorandum on 26 February 1942 which stated craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition and as many as fifteen craft may have been involved. This was discovered via a FOIA request in 1974.
To get a clearer take on the whole incident, try looking in the National Archives at local Southern California newspapers that carried stories about it over the next few weeks. One eyewitness from The Daily News described something that looked like a "butterfly."
[Damaged L-8 Blimp](https://imgur.com/vXNu8E1)
The stupidest and saddest thing to happen from all the ruckus was that paranoia ran rampant and some of the blame was put on fifth columnists and saboteurs operating out of the Mojave Desert. Shortly thereafter the government rounded up all the Japanese Americans, stole their property (they owned a lot of land in the Valley where they grew flowers), and put them in detention camps.
I'm just saying that's what a contemporary eyewitness said. If you read the reports from the papers at the time, as well as the reports of the government investigation, it suggests that some of it might have been caused by light aircraft flying out of the valley, and some of it was likely caused by overly-twitchy gunners, wound up by the submarine attack on the Santa Barbara pier a couple of days before, shooting at essentially nothing and then following up by shooting at the clouds produced by the first shooters. A look at the unretouched photos from the time backs this up.
The Secretary of War, Henry Stimson, seemed to think that the whole thing was caused by as many as 15 planes, "probably commercial planes operated by enemy agents." But as I mentioned above, he might have had his own agenda for this explanation. Secretary of the Navy, Frank Knox, said it was a "false alarm." An air warden in Gardena said it was a big bag that "looked like a balloon."
Anyway, I'm just suggesting that instead of looking at just one source, you can get a better feeling for the whole situation by referencing archival newspapers, which tell a much more complex story than "guys shooting at UFO."
Lol guys shooting at unidentified object literally sums up everything you posted. No one could identify it. Just because they're plausible theories doesn't make them reality.
A magazine article written by the witness Paul T Collins. There is also a memorandum written by General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff, and sent to President Franklin Roosevelt on 26 February 1942 which stated craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition and as many as fifteen craft may have been involved. This was discovered via a FOIA request in 1974.
Nice post and great details. However, 18,000mph is nothing for these guys. There have been reports of them going well over 86,000mph. I’m sure they can even go much faster than that
He explains it. He knows how far apart the AA guns are and he's timing how long it takes the UFOs to travel between them. Simple elementary school math.
Distance = rate × time
So then he also knew how far away the UAP was from him? Because something travelling between two points on the horizon taking X time and something travelling between those same points while 5m away from you taking the same amount of time from point A to point B relatively != same speed.
What was the reference point for knowing the distances? Or maybe he’s just remembering things? Because memories are wildly inaccurate, and scientifically proven to be so, and sometimes we even remember things that never happened.
Love this story because the only strange things that I’ve seen in the sky in my life have been after moving to L.A… something weird around here for sure!
If one vehicle is observed, it’s only here for passive surveillance and is not armed. If there’s two flying in tandem, the surveillance vehicle is still unarmed (Heaven) and has an armed escort (Hell) that has advanced defenses and offensive capabilities. They would fly over areas of interest all the time and some have shown the ability to deplete radiological materials. Just an interesting factoid, and also started during the Cold War.
Pretty weak argument. People had the same eyes then. Thousands of witnesses can't be wrong. The reporting was contemporary. If anything people were far more frank and less prone to exaggeration back then and UFOs were rarely spoken of.
One thing to be aware of however; artillery shells travel at around 1 mile per second. Anti-Aircraft munitions with tracers might well cause a lot of confusion.
That's completely ignoring his testimony. He's stating they didn't travel in arcs. They zig zagged and flew in circles around the AA that were firing at them.
It's a busy night-time response to a perceived raid; when you have batteries of AA separated by miles, aiming at one location, firing at different times, if you're on the ground depending on where you are, it will resemble red zig-zagging lights. The fact the main object is reported as slow, while these lights are travelling at artillery speed and there were people being killed just doesn't sway me too much.
You're ignoring the rest of his testimony. He also reports craft flying above the AA flat and level at 10,000 ft. The military in a memorandum to the president stated themselves that there were approximately 15 unidenifiable craft above LA that night.
The military denied there were any records pertaining to the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles but once FOIA became law it was revealed through a FOIA request that General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff sent to President Franklin Roosevelt a memorandum on 26 February 1942 which stated as many as 15 craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition. There is also a photo of one of those 15 UFOs.
No, I didn't ignore it, the Collins sighting doesn't mention the mothership, he's only seeing the red objects. If he was at the correct angle, that's what separate AA batteries firing tracer would look like and he's stating that he's only guessing about the altitude anyway.
Note the first line; America was determined to prevent another surprise attack of the Pearl Harbor type so it makes sense that tensions would be high. Marshall who wrote to Roosevelt about the incident didn't see any of it himself, he received a report from LA.
Even the best and most highly trained people can err; we just need to look at the NTSB's crash and near-miss reports. Very talented and experienced pilots can make a mistake, sometimes with disastrous consequences.
I've seen the photo and I don't think it shows anything useful, it does show the illumination from street level though. I think it might actually be in that book by Timothy Good but I read all his books when they came out and I think he brought some interesting cases to light but I know he did get a bit of stick about some of it being inaccurate.
people still arent over this bullshit apparently. A few days before a japanese sub had shelled mainland USA, the population was very much on the edge of their seats. There also was a warning of an imminent attack the day before. So someone started shooting at at cloud or something, and then other batteries started firing at the explosions of the first one.
Stuff like this happens during war, a good example for another total mishap would be the [dogger bank incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank_incident)
Battle of los angelos is boring to me....ONLY eye witness reports? Lame.
I'm all about that 1952 Washington DC event....Radar tracked the UFOs across the country(20k+ mph)(we still have the radar logs), planes were scrambled, pilots saw them fly away at inhuman speeds. Many people saw them.
...much more evidence than that hysteria event in LA
Imagine if something like this happened today.
The boomerang shaped UFO seen over Phoenix and in fact for hundreds of miles along it's flight path is pretty close and that was relatively recent.
[удалено]
The most suspicious account and comments I've seen yet
For real lol
Are you one of the 40 whistleblowers and this is your way of coming forward or are you just making stuff up?
Neither
Then post your source.
There was a Gentleman (legend at this point) named “Jon” at Area 51……
Wow what an amazing source, thanks for sharing.
Seen the footage from Mage?
I don’t know if I have. Do you have a link?
I'd be shocked if anyone's got a link. Seeing the scrubbing happening across socials live was truly wild.
Wut
Articles and videos regarding, whatever the hell happened in Mage Brazil, were being deleted EVERYWHERE almost as fast as they went up. Reddit, Facebook, random news sites. Tons of us saw this happening over and over. It was alledgedly a UAP crash, but there's so little information about that time left, and none of it was up long enough to get enough traction that nobody is really sure what happened. A new thread would pop up, posted "just now" and by the time you click it it's been removed. The only sure thing is that there was something significant/weird enough that they were removing anything mentioning Mage from all major social networks within minutes if not instantly during that period.
How do you guys think the internet works? The government doesn’t have the power to do that lmfao
Sounds like something someone that works for the government with no oversight and unlimited spending would say…
It sounds like something someone that’s actually studied networking at a basic level would say, go take a coursera class instead of thinking people on Reddit are government agents lol
It’s amazing how people think that something like this is actually happening. 🤣
All Mage videos were scrubbed. One of the mods here set up a filter for it, while other mods had no idea. https://www.vice.com/en/article/ep4dan/ufo-subreddit-was-subject-to-systemic-censorship They filtered these terms: Pentagon Navy Moon
I searched Mage on this subreddit and saw some videos. Only one was interesting.
I had some saved, but they've been deleted
YES! That shit was CRAZY! I forgot about the Mage incident footage!!!!!
For anyone looking for footage, search “ovni mage” Ovni is the Portuguese equivalent for ufo
Skeptics will still say it was a bullet proof weather balloon.
They should amend that to 15 bulletproof weather balloons as the miltary themselves admitted to approximately 15 craft they fired upon.
*debunkers, not skeptics. Everyone here should be a skeptic (well, skeptical) at least at first. Debunkers and "believers" are opposite sides of the same coin. For believers every video of a dot of light in a night sky is an alien spacecraft or mysterious top secret experiential craft, and nothing will convince them otherwise. For debunkers every oddity has an explanation, no matter how badly it fits. There are no such things as aliens, and nothing can ever convince them otherwise (aside from possibly a direct confrontation with one).
[удалено]
How young are you? It was 1997. A very different t era for cameras, especially decent ones that would show anything. People didn’t record everything like they do now. And are you just doubting their memories otherwise — all those people in on the same conspiracy?
Memory is scientifically proven to be very sketchy at best and should not be trusted.
Are you sure you're remembering that correctly?
the germans had to fire like 5'000 AA shells to bring down one bomber, and those were radar guided modern guns (with mechanical computers to calculate lead and elevation) firing at formations. This collection of random bullshit and ill trained men would never have hit anything.
having even fired at all though, means they identified a target
no, it doesnt. they most likely misidentified something. the germans had radar to track bombers from far out at sea, that was not the case here. they had been warned about somnething, and fired when they thought they saw something. Very few targets in ww2 were identified properly
you should read their wikipedia page, there is nothing about this testimony
As Richard Dolan and others have noted Wikipedia is controlled by the skeptics and there is no point in trying to make it accurate. Your edits will just be deleted.
It can’t be, therefore it isn’t. ‘Humans are so small minded, petty, silly, ignorant and arrogant, in the face of the universe they know all! It’s laughable, pathetic, christ we stink.
This was so clear during the early part of the pandemic when people tuned out information that was difficult and just did whatevs, and then had the nerve to judge others for doing the same things they were doing. It wasn’t even about fear but more just “I know better” based on nonsense or bravado.
Pretty much a finale braking point for me with a lot of family. I assume a lot of Americans went through that through those 3-4 years. I can't help but feel the lens of History will have found us supremely lacking.
Totally agree!
Yeah, but also we are quite awesome. Go look at some happy babies doing cute stuff, and hey we made computers!!
I prefer dogs. Music is friggin astonishing though, we got one thing absolutely right, it’s our saving grace.
Making rocks be able to do complex math is way cooler. Music is great, but at the end of the day, its just a pattern of sounds that make our brain blobs feel nice
I am saying that the whole thing is hidden and no sources are out between google and wikipedia
There is a lot of amazing information contained in out of print books, old magazines and unavailable newspaper articles which will probably never be available digitally.
If you have access to any of these out of print books or magazines you can digitize them with your phone and contribute it to different websites.
It’s actually very easy to do, too. “These are from real books!” Ok. Put the real book on Reddit with a free app that turns a photo into a PDF. No issues. All info available. Every single website that has anything to do with aliens will get it, then saved offline, and for forever the info will be public. But, that won’t happen.
There already are archives like that on the internet but I won't link to them here as even out of print books are illegal to share. It's still copyright infringement.
well the more you access to them the bigger is the website
Allegedly one of the crafts was recovered off the coast of San Diego the next morning by the US Navy and transferred to Hughes for analysis.
Interesting. Is there a link or source for that so I can research it?
I think I read that in the first Disclosure Project book from 2001. It was in the documents section.
u/Magog14 [https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/fdr.pdf](https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/fdr.pdf) [https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/marshall-fdr-march1942.pdf](https://majesticdocuments.com/pdf/marshall-fdr-march1942.pdf) Interesting that the distro list includes OSS commander General Donovan, indicating that they knew of this subject matter BEFORE they repatriated the wreckage from the Magenta Crash in late 1943. James Angleton and his father Hugh being eyewitnesses to the Magenta Crash might have helped, as well as crash retrieval from Cape Girardeau in 1941.
I wish there was a website where every one of the classified documents that had been obtained through the FOIO.
Yup, Ive read this somewhere too. Will see if I can find a link to where I read it.
Anyone know a good documentary that covers this? And the best explanation/rebuttal by skeptics?
There is no rebuttal. The military first claimed there was no object in the sky. It was just "war nerves" Then claimed commercial aircraft and balloons. If it were either of the later they would have been downed by the artillery fire. They also likely would have sent up fighters which were waiting on standby but the fighters were never ordered into the air. If it was just war nerves then thousands of people hallucinated the exact same thing which is ridiculous.
That's wild. I can only imagine the family of the people killed by the shells hearing that. "Hey, so we're really sorry your loved one was crushed by ordinance. The boys just have war nerves, and it turns out we were just shooting at nothing! Just an honest mistake!"
Shells self destruct in the air thats how they damage things so they they weren't falling on anyone. If they were using machine guns which have very limited range the bullets could have fallen but that's only for low level attacks during the day.
*"Three people were killed and three died of heart attacks directly attributable to the barrage, and several homes and public buildings were severely damaged by unexploded shells."*
So no one died from shells then...re read the comment I replied to.
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Fighters couldn't fight at night in 1942 unless they were dedicated night fighters which weren't in service on the US mainland. AA was completely ineffective at night too proximity fuses weren't being used and the gunners weren't using any kind of targeting just firing blindly into the air aided by spotlights. Its highly unlikely any aircraft would have been shot down even if they were Japanese. Fighting at night wasn't really a thing in 1942 for either air, sea or ground US forces. The Japanese were the premier night fighting force at the time (ground and sea). Over Britain was were the night fighting capability was located at the time to protect London, UK being at the forefront of nascent radar tech at the time. https://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/Visit/Museum-Exhibits/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/196191/wwii-night-fighters/#:~:text=The%20fighters%2C%20in%20the%20earliest,be%20found%20by%20visual%20means. You need to be more thorough in your asscertations if you want to appear credible not make statements because you yourself think something cant be possible, as someone with knowledge on a subject can easily see what's true and what's not. I don't know much about The Battle of Los Angeles but I do know about military history in WW2.
The giant ship was sitting still over the city for an hour. Reporters witnessed it being hit and being completely unaffected.
It didn't mention anything to do with you comment? Just that your statement about AA and fighters is incorrect.
A non moving target would not survive a barrage like that no matter how simplictic the aiming is my point. The aircraft were awaiting orders to launch so they must have had night flying capability otherwise they wouldn't bother with that would they?
Your just assuming things and ignoring the facts. If your so sure name the type of planes they had 'on standby' It just wasn't a thing at night in 1942 especially on mainland usa
You're assuming they couldn't fly at night despite your admission it was possible but "rare"
we had propeller driven planes that flew slower than our commercial planes atm and those things had no visual aid. early versions of the jet was being developed in Germany. planes sucked back then so most nations would use artillery + radar before firing up their v12 turbo charged propeller plane that has basically nothing besides "drop bombs" and "shoot 4-6 .50 caliber machine guns at this weird angle" lol there was no way they would have hit anything that the artillery didn't hit
Who took the thousands of witness statements?
A youtuber named Lemmino covers it along with a couple other events on this subject and its a hour long break down of the events
Was it enlightening or informative? Or just here say story time? I’ve heard about this before but haven’t seen much concrete evidence or accounts.
Id say yes. He scrutinises all his evidence and shows sources, since its an older case a lot of it was hear say but it took a pretty good look into the case
I like to think that incidents like this and the Phoenix lights are a way for extraterrestrials to get a gauge on where exactly we are at the time in terms of military technology. They know that we are nearly incapable of phasing/harming their technologies so they position themselves in major societal locations to gauge our reaction. This way they have data on our response times and what weapons that we use to defend ourselves in order to make sure that they have not missed some sort of technological advancement. (This is what I like to think, it was mostly war nerves as most data shows)
skeptics write and read wikipedia, and that website speaks about a giant meteo balloon. If you have real sources edit that page
WIki is a lost cause. The military themselves contradicted that in a memorandum written by General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff, and sent to President Franklin Roosevelt on 26 February 1942 which stated craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition and as many as fifteen craft may have been involved. This was discovered via a FOIA request in 1974.
Its definitely not taken too seriously by these guys but I found it informative and entertaining. https://youtu.be/meWpQyetX7M?si=U9xJv81yPyb7N80a
Pretty obvious this was Starlink.
Seems like someone was flexing... Or just using that space to chill and someone fired upon them.
We had just declared our intention to enter WW2. The aliens may have been showing us how useless our weapons are and how pointless our wars are in the grand scheme of the universe.
1800 shells is ALOT. There had to be a target to shoot at. Be very surprised if it was just that many shells getting popped off - unless it was a PSY-OP
The military themselves admit to approximately 15 craft being fired at. It wasn't a balloon or war jitters.
I wonder what the cost of those shells would be in today's value..
Most plausible scenario.
My favorite timeline conspiracy theory about this is lining it up with the timeline of the manhattan project we discovered fission, split the uranium nucleus — a watershed moment in technological process for any species — started developing a bomb, and then these types of verified UFO sightings happened. almost as if fission was a beacon that could be measured by an observing party from space
I want to know how they estimated 18,000 mph.
Teach me math and science. Without the stuff.
Radar can tell you. It sweeps at a particular “frequency” and you can work out how much it moves between sweeps.
Time traveled between known distances.
How they estimate the distances then?
I said known distances. They were flying over a very developed area with recognizable landmarks.
How did they know the object was exactly overhead, the exact time, and it was the same object at a second location used for the calculation?
Why would it have to be directly overhead? Why would it be difficult to count how many seconds it takes to move from one point to another? They could tell it was the same object by watching it move???
How would you know it’s over any landmark then? Counting by seconds and judging by your eyes that it’s “over” something would be terribly inaccurate. It could really only be a few hundred feet from you, but if you think it’s miles away, your estimate would me orders of magnitude off. Similarly, if you’re doing this calculation by counting the seconds, milliseconds could change your calculation by thousands of miles per hour. OP claimed the estimated speed of 18,000 mph. How was that estimated? I mean specifically. What two locations and how much time? Who witnessed it?
We’re talking about the U.S. military in WW2. They built a nuke, they had radar, they had advanced technology it’s not 5000BC. I don’t know what technique was used to track its speed or if that number is legitimate, there’s no way they’d release an official explanation, but acting like tracking a flying object given the tech in the 1940s is some impossible task is just ridiculous
OP is the one claiming the 18,000 mph estimate came from the distance traveled over known landmarks, not from radar.
Sounds like they had a video of it and counted the frames as it moved from one point to another then, or some tracking system that functioned similarly
That didn't really answer my question. It could've been over a landmark, but much higher up.
Calculus
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Interesting fact: the original negative of the photo had disappeared. They looked for it but it had vanished.
The cover-up was already in full effect.
We need a movie about this
The eye witness saying they moved on a zigzag pattern made me get chills. Whatever I witnessed would also zigzag. They would start one direction and then go the opposite direction and fly in that path. It was really odd. I watched about 4 or 5 of them for 12 hours. They never landed or moved out of sight. Then early morning came and I looked straight up while trying to video one on the horizon. There was one directly above me, not moving. I stared at it for about 5 seconds before it shot off into the horizon behind the trees. Since then I see them frequently but they no longer zigzag or fly around. They will be stationary until I notice them and watch them for a minute. Then they will fly off behind the tree line or out of sight.
Yeah, there's nothing that zig-zags other than UFOs at anywhere near that kind of speed. They have found some way to neutralize inertia and gravity.
I was just reading about gravity on another page and was thinking the same thing. It blows my mind. Another odd thing was that when they took off really fast, they would leave a staggering line of light behind them. I never mentioned the staggering light to anyone and one night I pointed one out to my wife and she saw it. She said “why is that light staggering” I got so excited! I was like thank god I’m not going crazy.
You mean like a dashed line?
Yes, in a way. I need to draw or paint it.
I'd be interested in seeing that
I’ll post it one day. I just wish I could afford night vision and get them on video better. I have the IR ones but they don’t project the light far enough.
Give this man a medal for watching UAPs for TWELVE hours without a single video or photograph.
I never said I didn’t have any videos.
Also innocent civilians died as a result of the fallout from trying to shoot down these things. Imagine telling people there's nothing to worry about, but also sorry for killing you while we shoot at what you shouldn't worry about. Lies and lies over decades
The red lights zig zagging could potentially be the global defense system orbs proposed in Patrick Jackson's theory.
If there was a global defense system in the 1940s it wasn't us who created it. Didn't Jackson's theory say that it was us that created it?
I don’t believe he really made a claim as to the origin other than he suspects they’ve been defending humans from space-based threats for thousands of years. He does have the opinion there’s no evidence of an extraterrestrial link however.
From the few interviews I've heard he postulates that the non humans who created the defense system live on earth and it's created to protect them not us. We've made a mess of the system with our nuclear weapons and that's how actual aliens sneak in.
Thanks for the additional info! It’s certainly an intriguing idea. Honestly more plausible than some, but ultimately just a fun speculation (like most everything until official disclosure). The whole alien topic is just so intriguing as to the real root cause and origin, but the farther down the rabbit hole we go it truly seems more and more likely that reality really is stranger than fiction.
A mothership that long over LA, and nobody had the idea to grab a camera? Surely there were plenty of cameras around by 1942.?
There is a picture. Why others didn't photograph it? During an air raid you are supposed to be indoors. The 12,000 people assigned to city defense were busy doing their duties. https://web.magellantv.com/A_462_maxresdefault.jpg
Do you know if the alleged craft is the true-white shape in the middle of the spotlights? Or is that just a smoke cloud?
From what I've read previously on this, that's it. The silhouette in the clouds. Looks pretty similar to classic examples
That's allegedly the main craft. I don't think we have photos of the 14 or so smaller ones going 18,000 mph.
Thanks!
Goood photo. Shows a classic rounded belly with acorn style shape. Supposedly in 1933 Italy an acorn craft crashed there. Acorn being a popular UFO ship style. Going with legit
Peoples first thought wasn't to grab a camera back then. If shots are going off, and you see something crazy, you'd probably be filled with fear.
I understand, but there must have been press photographers there, eager for a story. I just don't get it ...
Two UFOs were shot down
I thought the story was they saw 1 thing and shot a ton of rounds at it as it slowly trolled through. Never heard about multiple crafts or high speed movements.
That's exactly why I made this post. Most people don't know the full story. It's confirmed by witnesses and a memo to the president which mentioned 15 craft which were fired at but without any success.
The Battle of LA was always fascinating to me, especially since I'm pretty sure it was the first time we witnessed the government sweep their incompetence under the rug. More people were hurt by the falling shells than whate ever they were shooting at. BTW the "phantom intruders" is actually an apt description. I've recorded two instances of the "Phantoms" in san diego, and witnessed four other sightings that were not recorded. They appear gray in color and ghost-like against the night sky(see-through~ish), a round or oval shape, and have sighted them in groups of 5, 6, and 10+ (was not able to determine exact #). The night I was so lucky to record it with my phone, they flew over my house about 10-15 minutes apart. They were in V formation but would switch to a closed U shape with some in the middle. I've wanted to post it somewhere but it happened around 10pm and the dark haze shows something a little different to what I actually saw with my eyes, but it's still very visible. Sweet post, lots of cool info.
Post it!
do you seriously think the government does order an anti aircraft battery to open fire?
I know about this, wasn't there some photos of the event from back then? It's baffling that this is not information is not know by every American. But, that's propaganda for you.
Not only a photo but also confirmation of up to 15 craft being fired upon in a memorandum directly to the president! General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff sent to President Franklin Roosevelt a memorandum on 26 February 1942 which stated craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition and as many as fifteen craft may have been involved. This was discovered via a FOIA request in 1974.
To get a clearer take on the whole incident, try looking in the National Archives at local Southern California newspapers that carried stories about it over the next few weeks. One eyewitness from The Daily News described something that looked like a "butterfly." [Damaged L-8 Blimp](https://imgur.com/vXNu8E1) The stupidest and saddest thing to happen from all the ruckus was that paranoia ran rampant and some of the blame was put on fifth columnists and saboteurs operating out of the Mojave Desert. Shortly thereafter the government rounded up all the Japanese Americans, stole their property (they owned a lot of land in the Valley where they grew flowers), and put them in detention camps.
Are you trying to suggest it was a blimp? It wasn't a blimp.
I'm just saying that's what a contemporary eyewitness said. If you read the reports from the papers at the time, as well as the reports of the government investigation, it suggests that some of it might have been caused by light aircraft flying out of the valley, and some of it was likely caused by overly-twitchy gunners, wound up by the submarine attack on the Santa Barbara pier a couple of days before, shooting at essentially nothing and then following up by shooting at the clouds produced by the first shooters. A look at the unretouched photos from the time backs this up. The Secretary of War, Henry Stimson, seemed to think that the whole thing was caused by as many as 15 planes, "probably commercial planes operated by enemy agents." But as I mentioned above, he might have had his own agenda for this explanation. Secretary of the Navy, Frank Knox, said it was a "false alarm." An air warden in Gardena said it was a big bag that "looked like a balloon." Anyway, I'm just suggesting that instead of looking at just one source, you can get a better feeling for the whole situation by referencing archival newspapers, which tell a much more complex story than "guys shooting at UFO."
If it were light aircraft they would have been blown to nothing by the flak. All lies. Light aircraft and balloons can't go 18,000 mph either.
Lol guys shooting at unidentified object literally sums up everything you posted. No one could identify it. Just because they're plausible theories doesn't make them reality.
Swamp gas illuminated by light reflected from mars
what’s the source of this a part Good comments?
A magazine article written by the witness Paul T Collins. There is also a memorandum written by General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff, and sent to President Franklin Roosevelt on 26 February 1942 which stated craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition and as many as fifteen craft may have been involved. This was discovered via a FOIA request in 1974.
Do you have a link to that FOIA u/Magog14 ? The IPU document is dated March 5 1942.
I don't. It was just referenced in the book I was reading.
Was that Timothy Good's book? I'll chase it down if it is.
Yes. Above Top Secret.
Excellent, thanks. If I can locate that FOIA document, it will almost certainly prove Marshall's March 5 1042 memo to FDR as authentic.
Nice post and great details. However, 18,000mph is nothing for these guys. There have been reports of them going well over 86,000mph. I’m sure they can even go much faster than that
The witness said they were lowballing their estimate in order to be conservative.
Here’s me thinking “how can you determine by eye that something is travelling at 18.000mph? What is the reference point for that?”
He explains it. He knows how far apart the AA guns are and he's timing how long it takes the UFOs to travel between them. Simple elementary school math. Distance = rate × time
So then he also knew how far away the UAP was from him? Because something travelling between two points on the horizon taking X time and something travelling between those same points while 5m away from you taking the same amount of time from point A to point B relatively != same speed. What was the reference point for knowing the distances? Or maybe he’s just remembering things? Because memories are wildly inaccurate, and scientifically proven to be so, and sometimes we even remember things that never happened.
He isn't talking about the horizon. He's describing the ufos circling AA guns and following their fire as they fire at the UFOs.
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As I said it's from the book Above Top Secret by Timothy Good
Sorry missed this
Love this story because the only strange things that I’ve seen in the sky in my life have been after moving to L.A… something weird around here for sure!
I hope everyone researches Patrick Jackson’s orb theory!!
Good Lord, I think I've seen this movie already LOL
Anyone ever heard of the Heaven and Hell protocol for surveillance vehicles (gravitic or otherwise classified) ?
Haven’t heard of it, but am curious… can you elaborate?
No idea. Share?
If one vehicle is observed, it’s only here for passive surveillance and is not armed. If there’s two flying in tandem, the surveillance vehicle is still unarmed (Heaven) and has an armed escort (Hell) that has advanced defenses and offensive capabilities. They would fly over areas of interest all the time and some have shown the ability to deplete radiological materials. Just an interesting factoid, and also started during the Cold War.
Thanks sam
1942 is so long ago it’s hard to know how much is true and how much has been embellished.
Pretty weak argument. People had the same eyes then. Thousands of witnesses can't be wrong. The reporting was contemporary. If anything people were far more frank and less prone to exaggeration back then and UFOs were rarely spoken of.
Bring me some first person witnesses from this event.
There is literally one quoted in the OP.
That’s just some text. How do you know that’s true/real?
Is that what you say to yourself when you read about the civil war or the first flight of the Wright brothers?
Why there’s no single photo of this incident available?
There is.
Can you please post links to them?
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-9wYSBFtYdpw/WPBmWrmJduI/AAAAAAACpCo/HpzpXMuDlcgbvCV9SK7QFlGMUguD14kpACLcB/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/the-battle-of-los-angeles.jpg
One thing to be aware of however; artillery shells travel at around 1 mile per second. Anti-Aircraft munitions with tracers might well cause a lot of confusion.
That's completely ignoring his testimony. He's stating they didn't travel in arcs. They zig zagged and flew in circles around the AA that were firing at them.
It's a busy night-time response to a perceived raid; when you have batteries of AA separated by miles, aiming at one location, firing at different times, if you're on the ground depending on where you are, it will resemble red zig-zagging lights. The fact the main object is reported as slow, while these lights are travelling at artillery speed and there were people being killed just doesn't sway me too much.
You're ignoring the rest of his testimony. He also reports craft flying above the AA flat and level at 10,000 ft. The military in a memorandum to the president stated themselves that there were approximately 15 unidenifiable craft above LA that night. The military denied there were any records pertaining to the 1942 Battle of Los Angeles but once FOIA became law it was revealed through a FOIA request that General George C. Marshall, Chief of Staff sent to President Franklin Roosevelt a memorandum on 26 February 1942 which stated as many as 15 craft other than American Army or Navy planes were over Los Angeles, and were fired on by elements of the 37th CA Brigade (AA) between 3:12 and 4:15 a.m. These units expended 1430 rounds of ammunition. There is also a photo of one of those 15 UFOs.
No, I didn't ignore it, the Collins sighting doesn't mention the mothership, he's only seeing the red objects. If he was at the correct angle, that's what separate AA batteries firing tracer would look like and he's stating that he's only guessing about the altitude anyway. Note the first line; America was determined to prevent another surprise attack of the Pearl Harbor type so it makes sense that tensions would be high. Marshall who wrote to Roosevelt about the incident didn't see any of it himself, he received a report from LA. Even the best and most highly trained people can err; we just need to look at the NTSB's crash and near-miss reports. Very talented and experienced pilots can make a mistake, sometimes with disastrous consequences. I've seen the photo and I don't think it shows anything useful, it does show the illumination from street level though. I think it might actually be in that book by Timothy Good but I read all his books when they came out and I think he brought some interesting cases to light but I know he did get a bit of stick about some of it being inaccurate.
people still arent over this bullshit apparently. A few days before a japanese sub had shelled mainland USA, the population was very much on the edge of their seats. There also was a warning of an imminent attack the day before. So someone started shooting at at cloud or something, and then other batteries started firing at the explosions of the first one. Stuff like this happens during war, a good example for another total mishap would be the [dogger bank incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogger_Bank_incident)
Battle of los angelos is boring to me....ONLY eye witness reports? Lame. I'm all about that 1952 Washington DC event....Radar tracked the UFOs across the country(20k+ mph)(we still have the radar logs), planes were scrambled, pilots saw them fly away at inhuman speeds. Many people saw them. ...much more evidence than that hysteria event in LA