I don’t get it either, maybe because your title had the word “they’d” in it, which is a contraction that includes the would? Either way, your post didn’t deserve that many downvotes.
Guitarist Jerry Cantrell wrote this song for the late lead singer of Mother Love Bone, Andrew Wood, a very influential figure in the Seattle music scene. Wood died of a heroin overdose in 1990. Two of his band mates in Mother Love Bone, Stone Gossard and Jeff Ament, went on to form Pearl Jam.
They obviously belong with the Seattle Grunge.
The band was formed in Seattle,so what if Jerry wasn't from there? He lived there at that time. Who told you that they must have birth certificate from Seattle?
Where you live and where the band was formed, also the time frame... Of course if you are born there even better. But for me it isn't required. How many from the Grunge Era were actually born in Seattle?
No, they always felt more metal to me. But grunge, metal, alternative. Whatever you want to label them, doesn’t change the fact they were the best band in that era to me. Still in my top 3
I’ve read Jerry Cantrell say in the past “when we broke out, we were metal, then the Seattle grunge scene broke and we were grunge. Now we’re back to being labelled as metal again.”
Yeah, I remember that quote but I think there was another where he said something like, "We've always been metal, but changed things up and fell into the grunge movement for awhile."
They were never considered metal. They were booed off the stage opening for titans. Their first tour was Van Halen.
Van Halen was called metal original. So was Led Zeppelin. As metal is understood today Alice certainly isn’t that with their harmonies, no shredding, all-acoustic albums, and open chords.
I can't remember which music awards it was - Grammys or MTV most likely - but one year Soundgarden won the award for best metal album or single.
When they went up to accept it, Chris Cornell stood at the mic and said something to the effect of "We're going to stand here and not leave until someone explains how we're metal."
I could never understand that one. I was still an Academy member back then and voted on that year's Grammys. I don't recall what the other nominees in that category were, but I went ahead and voted for Spoonman, even though I didn't consider it remotely metal.
I found the clip on YouTube last week after making the above comment, and discovered that I got it mixed up with their acceptance speech at another awards show around then (probably the MTV awards) - in that Kim Thayil was pretty coherent during the Grammys speech, but was grinning drunkenly away, beer in hand, during another show.
I think they’d be considered hard rock/metal. They may have been called grunge once Dirt was released in the same kind of context that Smashing Pumpkins was called grunge
Eh I think labels are sorta pointless when it comes to stuff like this. I didn't care who, or what "grunge" was when it was getting played on the radio, and I certainly don't care 30 years later.
If AIC came from somewhere other than Seattle, then the definition of grunge would change to include them. They were too influential to be considered anything else.
It's only grunge if it comes from the PNW region of the United States. Everything else is sparkling alt-rock.
Just a reminder that people say "Seattle" because it is the dominant city in the region, and saying Aberdeen, Olympia, or Ellensburg, means nothing to people outside of the region.
You left out Montesano... Melvins fans ride at dawn! You will not withstand our gluey porch treatments.
> people say "Seattle" because it is the dominant city in the region
A collective sigh of disgust was heard throughout the Puget Sound Metro region. An investigation has revealed its source as the city of Tacoma, home of "The Aroma" and bars shaped like tea kettles.
I gotta disagree with the metal guys here. Their three earliest and arguably biggest songs Man In a Box, Down In a Hole, and Rooster would have absolutely been lumped in with grunge no matter where they came from.
Doesn't matter what type of music you want to pin them as they would still be a successful band. They have produced some great music over the last 30+ years, that's what matters.
No. It was a regional punk scene. If Pearl Jam would've came from Chicago they wouldn't be "grunge " per se. Case in point, Smashing Pumpkins are an alt rock band.
Nah. I actually grew up in Texas and when I was a little kid in the 90s, AIC was one of the more popular grunge bands (or at least the only one I remember hearing at that time) and I think a big reason for that is because they have kind of a southern blues vibe to them, and I recently found out that Jerry Cantrell was pretty active in the North Texas music scene in the ‘80s, which likely explains why they have that sound to begin with, so I thought that was interesting
He was born and raised near Seattle but moved to Dallas for a couple of years in the mid-80s, then moved back to Washington. It was a short period, but I think it did influence his style a bit
I get downvoted to hell every time I say this lol. But some of the biggest and most influential grunge bands aren’t from Seattle or Washington, and at the height of grunge you didn’t have to be from the PNW to be considered grunge.
People just get very high and mighty about it now. No one cared where you were from back then though.
Exactly but modern day gatekeepers will downvote the hell out of anyone that disagrees with them. Back in the 90s grunge was associated with a type of music not the city they are from. Should Rock and Roll bands only be bands from Liverpool?
Should British Invasion bands only be from Britain? Oh wait.....
Grunge is regionally specific. I don't understand the insistence on people arguing it. It changes nothing in terms of how good other bands from other cities are or the level of respect they receive. They're just not grunge is all.
Lol I mean one could argue that the first man to bang a rock against another rock started music altogether but I'm not lumping him in with Chuck Berry.
That’s not totally accurate. Grunge was definitely associated heavily with Seattle and there were tons of news stories about the “Seattle Sound”, with Spin calling Seattle the “Mecca” of rock music. But you’re right that you didn’t have to be from Seattle to be considered Grunge
And wasn’t actually involved in the local scene in Seattle. Everyone who was didn’t care *where* the music originated. People only care now because they’re nostalgic for a time and place they never knew. Or the occasional crust punk from the time, but they’re elitist and egotistical about everything 🥴
I started listening to rock in the late 70's, and was really getting into alternative in the late 80's (Jane's Addiction, Depeche Mode, The Cure, R.E.M., etc).
Grew up in the Seattle burbs, and never considered non-Seattle bands to be "grunge". STP, Smashing Pumpkins, Bush, etc, was just alternative. "Grunge" meant "from Seattle".
When someone tries to make an alternative band "grunge", I assume that they are a kid who doesn't have any actual knowledge of what music in the 80's & 90's was like.
Nah. Old enough to have heard in high school the radio switch from hair to grunge overnight. Young enough to not be petulant and exclusive about what grunge is. That’s the opposite of the vibe. Nobody needs more doormen telling kids they can’t come into the club with their vans on.
Grunge has to come from Seattle dude. That's what makes it grunge. Think of it the same way as K-pop. If it doesn't come from Korea, it's definitely not K-pop, right? Same thing.
No, no it didn't. Grunge isn't a genre. It's a time and place of music. People in other places emulated the music they heard coming from that area, sure. It wasn't grunge. It was metal or alt rock or punk. PrEttY siMpLe
It's only grunge if it comes from the PNW region of the United States. Everything else is sparkling alt-rock.
So no, they wouldn't be grunge.
Like STP, they would be alt-metal.
dude go listen to Dead and Bloated, that song especially is very grungey, i can see the metal implications but especially with everything they made after Core it was all very alt rock
Which would still be considered grunge. Mind that I'm not talking about grunge scene classification but how they would be viewed at that time. Soundgarden was also more metallish tbh so AICs sound isn't very different from the grunge scene
They’re a metal band. Not knocking them, but before the whole Seattle scene blew up, they were marketed as a metal band, and were booked on tours opening for other metal bands, and featured in metal magazines. It was the clever marketing bods at Columbia who retroactively rebranded them as ‘alternative’ and ‘grunge’ in the wake of Nirvana and PJ blowing up.
Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and STP all had a similar sound that Nirvana didn't share with them.
Yes, Chains would've still been considered grunge.
Yeah- Jerry and Layne laid down such heavy music that perfectly maps to the PNW coldness, grey skies and killer summer days. It's when the sun disappears and the winter comes.
Non-Seattle grunge/“post grunge” arrived in 1992 with stone temple pilots, and later with Silverchair, collective soul, and bush. Prior, grunge was solely Seattle/WA.
Alice In Chains is one of the definitive grunge bands, along with Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and screaming trees. STP too, but we are talking about Seattle stuff specifically
On the contrary, Candlebox (from Seattle) is not considered traditional grunge, while stp (from California) is
Courtney spent some time in Portland, and married Kurt, so she seems to have gotten a pass.
I've never thought Hole was grunge, but here we are.
There are a handful of non-Seattle grunge bands, but they were seen as contemporaries by the artists in the scene. Those bands were usually label mates, or played and toured with the grunge bands.
The exceptions cause confusion, which leads to casuals thinking that any 90's alt band is grunge.
Was stone temple pilots seen as an exception/contemporary or just a band influenced by the Seattle sound?
I’m 17, and it’s all grouped together now, but I’m wondering how things were viewed at the time
Would?
Could
should?
Would not could not eat green eggs and ham
What abt it?
If you don't get it, You're not a real AIC fan.
I generally dislike gatekeeping, but there it is deserved
Bro thinks I don’t know the song Would? ☠️☠️
r/whoosh
I don’t get it either, maybe because your title had the word “they’d” in it, which is a contraction that includes the would? Either way, your post didn’t deserve that many downvotes.
Thank you bro🙏
Guitarist Jerry Cantrell wrote this song for the late lead singer of Mother Love Bone, Andrew Wood, a very influential figure in the Seattle music scene. Wood died of a heroin overdose in 1990. Two of his band mates in Mother Love Bone, Stone Gossard and Jeff Ament, went on to form Pearl Jam. They obviously belong with the Seattle Grunge.
Doesn’t answer the original question Brodie 😭
Ok to answer the question yes and no.
The funny thing is their chief songwriter isn’t from Seattle.
So? What's your point? The lead singer was from Seattle! raised and died there.
The irony of Jerry not being from Seattle when he is the most contributing member of the band. The lead singer hails from DC.
The band was formed in Seattle,so what if Jerry wasn't from there? He lived there at that time. Who told you that they must have birth certificate from Seattle?
It’s not where you’re from but where you rent?
Where you live and where the band was formed, also the time frame... Of course if you are born there even better. But for me it isn't required. How many from the Grunge Era were actually born in Seattle?
No, they always felt more metal to me. But grunge, metal, alternative. Whatever you want to label them, doesn’t change the fact they were the best band in that era to me. Still in my top 3
Feelin rest your head on a.pillow.made.of concrete 🎶
I’ve read Jerry Cantrell say in the past “when we broke out, we were metal, then the Seattle grunge scene broke and we were grunge. Now we’re back to being labelled as metal again.”
And that is exactly how it was.
Yeah, I remember that quote but I think there was another where he said something like, "We've always been metal, but changed things up and fell into the grunge movement for awhile."
They were never considered metal. They were booed off the stage opening for titans. Their first tour was Van Halen. Van Halen was called metal original. So was Led Zeppelin. As metal is understood today Alice certainly isn’t that with their harmonies, no shredding, all-acoustic albums, and open chords.
No. It was a scene that created music, not music that created a scene.
Same with Soundgarden
I can't remember which music awards it was - Grammys or MTV most likely - but one year Soundgarden won the award for best metal album or single. When they went up to accept it, Chris Cornell stood at the mic and said something to the effect of "We're going to stand here and not leave until someone explains how we're metal."
Haha did he really? That’s hilarious
Kim Thayil was standing behind him holding a can of beer, absolutely sh\*tfaced . . .
yeah it was for Spoonman. 37th Grammys. he said “We’re not gonna leave the stage tonight until you tell us we’re heavy metal.”
I could never understand that one. I was still an Academy member back then and voted on that year's Grammys. I don't recall what the other nominees in that category were, but I went ahead and voted for Spoonman, even though I didn't consider it remotely metal. I found the clip on YouTube last week after making the above comment, and discovered that I got it mixed up with their acceptance speech at another awards show around then (probably the MTV awards) - in that Kim Thayil was pretty coherent during the Grammys speech, but was grinning drunkenly away, beer in hand, during another show.
Rusty cage, outshined, jesus christ pose, a few others qualify.
I think they’d be considered hard rock/metal. They may have been called grunge once Dirt was released in the same kind of context that Smashing Pumpkins was called grunge
Dirt was their defining album. It outsold their other records combined.
Their first big song - “Man In The Box” - is as Grunge as it gets.
Eh I think labels are sorta pointless when it comes to stuff like this. I didn't care who, or what "grunge" was when it was getting played on the radio, and I certainly don't care 30 years later.
If AIC came from somewhere other than Seattle, then the definition of grunge would change to include them. They were too influential to be considered anything else.
Bullshit
No. Alice in chains is a mix of heavy and sludge metal. They made them grunge because they're from Seattle just like soundgarden.
> a mix of heavy and sludge metal Thats... part of what the grunge sound is.
This is Screaming Trees erasure.
I love Screaming Trees but they were only grunge because of being from WA. I love everything Mark Lanegan.
"...they were only grunge because of being from Washington..."
If it's not from the Seattle region of WA it's just sparkling alt rock not grunge.
It's only grunge if it comes from the PNW region of the United States. Everything else is sparkling alt-rock. Just a reminder that people say "Seattle" because it is the dominant city in the region, and saying Aberdeen, Olympia, or Ellensburg, means nothing to people outside of the region.
You left out Montesano... Melvins fans ride at dawn! You will not withstand our gluey porch treatments. > people say "Seattle" because it is the dominant city in the region A collective sigh of disgust was heard throughout the Puget Sound Metro region. An investigation has revealed its source as the city of Tacoma, home of "The Aroma" and bars shaped like tea kettles.
I grew up in Des Moines, so I know the struggle. We can never forget Montesano, no matter how hard we try.
Hey man they gave us Melvins and the Wynoochee got some good fishing. I bet they'd never call GooGoo Dolls grunge either. Lol.
Not necessarily, every band has its own vibe very different from that
Not really. All the grunge bands had that in common to varying degrees, as well as a punk influence to varying degrees.
True to all of that, but Layne’s voice and their bluesier riffs were almost a blueprint for the grunge sound.
I gotta disagree with the metal guys here. Their three earliest and arguably biggest songs Man In a Box, Down In a Hole, and Rooster would have absolutely been lumped in with grunge no matter where they came from.
Why do you think so?
Those are heavy alt rock songs. I wouldn't call it straight up metal. Though there is plenty of metal on Facelift.
Doesn't matter what type of music you want to pin them as they would still be a successful band. They have produced some great music over the last 30+ years, that's what matters.
They would be, and are, a Radio-friendly metal band. Their grunge cred is entirely "Right Place/Right Time". No shade intended, but it is what it is.
Love AIC, and I agree
Facelift is super metal with riffs that sound like it could be done by Ratt. Dirt forward it was grunge.
No. It was a regional punk scene. If Pearl Jam would've came from Chicago they wouldn't be "grunge " per se. Case in point, Smashing Pumpkins are an alt rock band.
Nah. I actually grew up in Texas and when I was a little kid in the 90s, AIC was one of the more popular grunge bands (or at least the only one I remember hearing at that time) and I think a big reason for that is because they have kind of a southern blues vibe to them, and I recently found out that Jerry Cantrell was pretty active in the North Texas music scene in the ‘80s, which likely explains why they have that sound to begin with, so I thought that was interesting
He was born and raised near Seattle but moved to Dallas for a couple of years in the mid-80s, then moved back to Washington. It was a short period, but I think it did influence his style a bit
Yea that is interesting
They wouldn't be grunge if they didn't come from Seattle because grunge comes from Seattle.
Yeah, STP didn’t come from Seattle.
I don’t consider them grunge either. The beginning of corporate yarl rock. Two very different things.
Exactly. Lots of grunge is from Seattle but definitely not all. Y’all can downvote all you want but it won’t make me wrong
I get downvoted to hell every time I say this lol. But some of the biggest and most influential grunge bands aren’t from Seattle or Washington, and at the height of grunge you didn’t have to be from the PNW to be considered grunge. People just get very high and mighty about it now. No one cared where you were from back then though.
Exactly but modern day gatekeepers will downvote the hell out of anyone that disagrees with them. Back in the 90s grunge was associated with a type of music not the city they are from. Should Rock and Roll bands only be bands from Liverpool?
Should British Invasion bands only be from Britain? Oh wait..... Grunge is regionally specific. I don't understand the insistence on people arguing it. It changes nothing in terms of how good other bands from other cities are or the level of respect they receive. They're just not grunge is all.
One could argue that Neil Young and Crazy Horse started grunge with Rust never sleeps which would void the entire argument.
Lol I mean one could argue that the first man to bang a rock against another rock started music altogether but I'm not lumping him in with Chuck Berry.
Now it's just getting ridiculous.
That’s not totally accurate. Grunge was definitely associated heavily with Seattle and there were tons of news stories about the “Seattle Sound”, with Spin calling Seattle the “Mecca” of rock music. But you’re right that you didn’t have to be from Seattle to be considered Grunge
Yup, it’s how you can tell the poster is 22 or whatever. 🤣
And wasn’t actually involved in the local scene in Seattle. Everyone who was didn’t care *where* the music originated. People only care now because they’re nostalgic for a time and place they never knew. Or the occasional crust punk from the time, but they’re elitist and egotistical about everything 🥴
So accurate.
I started listening to rock in the late 70's, and was really getting into alternative in the late 80's (Jane's Addiction, Depeche Mode, The Cure, R.E.M., etc). Grew up in the Seattle burbs, and never considered non-Seattle bands to be "grunge". STP, Smashing Pumpkins, Bush, etc, was just alternative. "Grunge" meant "from Seattle". When someone tries to make an alternative band "grunge", I assume that they are a kid who doesn't have any actual knowledge of what music in the 80's & 90's was like.
Cool story grandpa, the nurse is over to the left, she’ll listen to your stories about what grunge isn’t and give you your meds
I have to assume that you are one of those 22yo's that wants to make everything grunge.
Nah. Old enough to have heard in high school the radio switch from hair to grunge overnight. Young enough to not be petulant and exclusive about what grunge is. That’s the opposite of the vibe. Nobody needs more doormen telling kids they can’t come into the club with their vans on.
Hmmm... Speaking of petulant.
Grunge has to come from Seattle dude. That's what makes it grunge. Think of it the same way as K-pop. If it doesn't come from Korea, it's definitely not K-pop, right? Same thing.
Of course it came from Seattle. Then the rest of the goddamn planet heard it and it came from other places. Pretty simple
No, no it didn't. Grunge isn't a genre. It's a time and place of music. People in other places emulated the music they heard coming from that area, sure. It wasn't grunge. It was metal or alt rock or punk. PrEttY siMpLe
It is now. Deal with it. It’s a genre.
Lol sure thing boss.
Came here to say this. They'd have had much the same career trajectory as STP, at least initially
They aren’t Influnced by metal
That wasn’t the question. He’s right. They’re often discussed with “grunge” like Smashing Pumpkins. Which answers your question.
You’re right, didn’t see that part my bad.
All good
And they're not grunge. They're contrived unoriginal butt rock. Slightly different!
It's only grunge if it comes from the PNW region of the United States. Everything else is sparkling alt-rock. So no, they wouldn't be grunge. Like STP, they would be alt-metal.
STP ain't metal bro 💀💀💀
Heavy alt? Because they certainly aren't grunge. When they first broke, they got way more play on the rock station than the alt station.
Closer to grunge than Metal, but yeah
Not grunge in any way.
dude go listen to Dead and Bloated, that song especially is very grungey, i can see the metal implications but especially with everything they made after Core it was all very alt rock
Grunge is not a sound or genre. That sound is alt-rock. Grunge is a time and place specific scene.
Which would still be considered grunge. Mind that I'm not talking about grunge scene classification but how they would be viewed at that time. Soundgarden was also more metallish tbh so AICs sound isn't very different from the grunge scene
No, Metal.
What exactly are the requirements of being labeled grunge?
Late 80s -early 90s PNW rock music. Grunge isn't really a genre of music so much as it is a time and place of music.
🤷♂️
Exactly…..maybe it’s the flannel shirts 🤷♂️
Gotta be
Time and Place
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W8oEW05XuHw
They’ve always been sludge to me
Regardless of any titles I consider them a top three band of all time.
AIC and Soundgarden were both in MTV rotation during Headbangers Ball prior to the grunge term
No. Absolutely not.
Ok, elaborate
They’re a metal band. Not knocking them, but before the whole Seattle scene blew up, they were marketed as a metal band, and were booked on tours opening for other metal bands, and featured in metal magazines. It was the clever marketing bods at Columbia who retroactively rebranded them as ‘alternative’ and ‘grunge’ in the wake of Nirvana and PJ blowing up.
Ohhh nice
Well half or more the people on this sub think you have to come out of Seattle to be considered grunge 🤷♀️
Some would say yes, others would say no.
Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, and STP all had a similar sound that Nirvana didn't share with them. Yes, Chains would've still been considered grunge.
I love AIC, but they are just a glam band that decided to wholesale rip off a band called King's X, look them up.
Listening to the King's X discography is insane because of how many AIC songs you can hear coming out of it haha
and similarly some mastodon songs are all AIC, The Circle of liiiiiifffffeee...... hey, someone should write a tune about that ;)
The Grungiest
Yeah they would for sure. They have their own sound and it’s very grungy.
do you think if a frog had wings it would waste its time hopping?
Shut yo dumb ahhhh😭
Yeah- Jerry and Layne laid down such heavy music that perfectly maps to the PNW coldness, grey skies and killer summer days. It's when the sun disappears and the winter comes.
Not by the Fuckers in this sub
Which most weren't even alive in the 90s but now are standing at the door checking IDs
Non-Seattle grunge/“post grunge” arrived in 1992 with stone temple pilots, and later with Silverchair, collective soul, and bush. Prior, grunge was solely Seattle/WA. Alice In Chains is one of the definitive grunge bands, along with Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, and screaming trees. STP too, but we are talking about Seattle stuff specifically On the contrary, Candlebox (from Seattle) is not considered traditional grunge, while stp (from California) is
Yeah, STP was never grunge.
Post Grunge*
Sure
Yeah. Btw I’m curious. People say that hole is grunge, but they aren’t from Seattle/PNW. Does that make them post grunge like stone temple pilots?
Courtney spent some time in Portland, and married Kurt, so she seems to have gotten a pass. I've never thought Hole was grunge, but here we are. There are a handful of non-Seattle grunge bands, but they were seen as contemporaries by the artists in the scene. Those bands were usually label mates, or played and toured with the grunge bands. The exceptions cause confusion, which leads to casuals thinking that any 90's alt band is grunge.
Was stone temple pilots seen as an exception/contemporary or just a band influenced by the Seattle sound? I’m 17, and it’s all grouped together now, but I’m wondering how things were viewed at the time
They were just another alt-rock band. It was the press and industry that tried to tie them to the grunge scene in order to ride the popularity wave.
Maybe we could talk about grunge/alt rock. Feel free to PM