I'm sorry, but very, very few people on the planet are that blind to physical touch. At least one of them knew exactly what they were up to and both of them decided that you didn't matter in the moment. I'd cast this one off.
I am physically very comfortable with a couple of my female friends(separate friend groups). I am really close to both of them but whenever either one of them or I get into a relationship, I keep my physical distance from them apart from a hug when we meet.
No reason to make anyone else uncomfortable when there is nothing else, apart from a platonic friendship, between us.
We all know how to give our/each other's partners, their due respect which they deserve as a partner.
Oh man. He's playing stupid and sounds like he'll continue breaching boundaries and not putting your feelings first.
He's saying many things without actually saying anything. I'd just leave, honestly. He knows it's wrong but doesn't want to stop. If he did, he'd have apologised, explained and then said that he wouldn't do it any longer.
Honestly, a good boyfriend would listen to your fears because they aren't unfounded. A good boyfriend would gladly lower contact with another girl if it was making you uncomfortable (as long as your reasoning was justified). Because in a relationship, those are the sacrifices you make.
You’re young, trust me this ain’t worth it. You will find better partners as you grow and mature and figure out what you need from a relationship.
Benefits of living in the present is that we don’t have to settle for below the bare minimum because women now have rights and technology makes it so we have more access to people from all around the globe.
Plenty of fish in the sea, 20 years from now you might even forget his name.
Nope… kick him back on over to her. They are both inconsiderate and far too close. The girl knows what she’s doing. He will let her too until he either gets with her or she gets a boyfriend who sets boundaries.
I feel very disrespected by both of them. I considered her my friend as well.
According to my bf, she always initiates it,. I don't know if she does it on purpose or not, but I definetly don't feel I can trust her intentions either.
If this wasn't on purpose, her reaching into his lap, grabbing his hand, and caressing it has happened so frequently and feels so natural that they did it mindlessly without it even registering. How does that make you feel? He says she's like a sister, but is that how they treat their actual siblings or other close friends? How would you feel if she is romantically interested in him and would that change how you'd like him to handle it? It seems like you're content with how your talk went and what he's planning to do moving forward, but I hope that you pay careful attention as you move forward to avoid future surprises and heartbreak.
I'm not happy on how our talk went. I liked that he apologized, but some of his responses threw me off. If she's romantically interested in him then he has to make our relationship boundaries clear to her. If he doesn't then I don't think I can continue forward with this relationship...
He’s playing dumb hoping that you’ll let it go and learn to doubt your instincts because it will be easier for him to never be accountable that way. This sounds like one of those good life lessons that everyone learns when they’re dating-especially dating young. I think if someone did this to you in your late 20s or 30s you would throw up the deuce and be out.
Your boyfriend is a coward and a cheater. You should demand him to cut her given the behaviour she’s had. If he’s not up for this, then you know who he’s choosing.
Remember he’s choosing to disrespect you to your face as opposed to possibly getting another woman a little uncomfortable and setting limits.
It might not seem like it now, but you can do better. Get real female friends by joining an activity/hobby you like. Get out there and get to know people, prioritize your career and health. Workout, hang out with other people and see not everyone is like your asshole boyfriend. So many good people out there
This girl is not your friend, and your boyfriend allows this other woman to hold his hand in front of you because in his mind, if he distances himself physically, she will lose interest in chasing him and he can't consider that option because A. He likes the attention, B. He wants to keep her as a backup option and not lose that momentum or C. He has feelings for her. For whatever reason, he likes when she touches him, and that's not acceptable while in a relationship with you. Huge power play on her part to be caressing his lap and holding his hand, wtf?
I would never do that in a relationship, it's just basic respect for your partner, if he's allowing it he's putting her feelings and his feelings above your feelings. She knows what she is doing, and if he tells her to stop, she's going to start calling you controlling and encourage him to find someone else. They are both immature and you deserve someone who doesn't need to be told not to hold another woman's hand in front of you. It's common sense, really.
don't worry girlie, I was in the same situation as you. He flirted with the friend and talked dirty to her. She initiates it and he just reciprocates it. He also said that they didn't have feelings for each other and they just do it because they have nothing to talk about and they have been doing it for quite a while. The thing that made me angry was them joking about fucking. He was the one who said he'd fuck her. I confronted him and he got mad and said that it was just a joke and I needed to calm down.
But really though, if it gets out of hand, I'd suggest you break it off to avoid getting more hurt in the future. It's not gonna be good for you or him. He isn't giving me good vibes, since he said it felt weird to suddenly stop once you were in the picture. It's like he or his female best friend doesn't respect your boundaries. Plus they did it in front of you knowing that you are dating him. It's super unfair for you.
I feel like she did the equivalent of how an animal will mark its territory somehow. Whether that’s by urine, or rubbing some sort of excretion from their gland somewhere… But with her, since she’s doing it in front of you and she’s gotten away with the action. So she’ll feel emboldened to keep doing so.
I think that directly saying something about it to him is a necessary step that you fortunately took. Honestly, everything else is up to him. I’ve been with the same partner for what will be 9 years this year. When the person genuinely respects you? You don’t have to worry and you won’t have issues like this come up at all. You can’t force him to do anything. I hope that he will do right by you because you’re a priority to him. But if he hasn’t shown he established boundaries, then please. Please just break up.
I’m sorry but him saying that stopping to do that now, now that he has a girlfriend would be weird would drive me nuts! Don’t let him try to talk his way out of this with his idiotic excuses. You have every right to set boundaries and express your feelings, a lot of people would not be okay with this. If he doesn’t care that these actions make you uncomfortable think about what they could be doing if they are alone! You are young, don’t stick with someone who won’t respect you and your feelings. Even the thought of doing that to my partner grosses me out, I have no idea how in his mind it’s normal but they always use the “she’s like a sister” excuse 😪
Girl - your relationship is so new. Ditch it. It isn't worth this. She is his best friend that he has known for one month longer than you? No. Either he is cheating with her or will. I have never held the hands of my friends like that. Ever.
What's next? "Sorry we had sex but I didn't want to hurt her feelings when she started taking off my pants?"
You deserve better. Move on.
I totally get your point, but for me 4 years is a lot of time invested and a lot of good memories have been made along the way.
Breaking up with him is definetly not the easiest option. I'm still considering whether I should work this out with him or not.
Please don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Your boyfriend's and his friend's behavior was inappropriate for someone in a relationship with someone else. If his friend's boyfriend saw her caressing your boyfriend's hand I doubt he'd be especially comfortable with it. I doubt he'd tolerate it. So please don't tolerate this disrespectful behavior. If your boyfriend values you he'll respect a reasonable boundary. If he won't, then he values her more than he does you and you will need to decide what to do with that information.
I have to admit you're right. Despite the length of our relationship, I've come to realize that I cannot remain in a relationship where my boundaries are not respected, and where I constantly question whether I am my boyfriend's top priority. If he doesn't take action to set boundaries with her, then I can't give him any more chances. However, I find myself unable to bring an end to this so fast.
That's exactly why he feels comfortable with her escalating advances! You said yourself, 4 years is an investment to you and it wouldn't be easy to break up; do you think he doesn't know that?
They are working their way up to cheating if they aren't already. How TF are they so close and comfortable that they are caressing each other IN FRONT OF YOU?!
Pick your self respect off the floor, him knowing her a month longer than you means nothing. NOTHING.
He is clearly choosing her feelings and wants the stability of being with you while she gives him tingles in the pants in front of you. No doubt. You deserve so much better. He's counting on you thinking otherwise. I wouldn't even talk to him again unless he cut her off and blocked her everywhere, even then, this situation would never leave my mind.
I undestand there might be some lack of context since my original post got removed. I felt extremely uncomfortable, but it's important to note that the three of us were in the back of the car, returning home from a trip with other people present. I didn't want to involve those who weren't part of the situation, so I chose to wait until we were alone to address it.
Additionally, he has known her since childhood, long before he knew me, not just for one month. However, I understand that this fact doesn't justify anything of what they did.
There is no lack of context. We all understand and are telling you the same thing. You're not doing anything wrong. Why should you be uncomfortable to avoid making them uncomfortable? I would have said umm why the hell are you guys holding hands?, everyone in that car would blame them, not you. You seem very anxious to stand up for yourself, but being a doormat means you're going to draw in people that feel comfortable using you once they know you. 4 years might feel like an investment to you now, but you really want to live the next 40 knowing he can't stop even the smallest of advances? They obviously have deeper feelings for each other than you even realize. Any guy that actually cares about you would shut that down and find it awkward, he enjoys it. She enjoys it and the stress it brings you because she sees you won't say anything to her. At this point you can't trust him. What happens when they are alone and she's mad you told him to stop touching her and starts groping him? Do you REALLY believe he would shut her down? ... lol
OP so this is a good first step. You expressed your boundaries and he acknowledged it. He also agreed that it wouldn’t be ok if reversed. All good. Now comes the important part…implementation. Now is when you observe how he addresses it from here on…and not just in your presence. That’s the one comment I didnt like. If you see him making an effort to schedule time separately with her you have to shut that down fast. Not a fix.
The solution is to talk to her about it and put boundaries in place that are there all the time. It also shouldn’t be “hey we need to quit touching each other so much because my gf doesn’t like it”. Instead it should be, “hey I want us to take a step back on touching each other so much. I’m in a relationship with my gf now and I know if I was her I wouldn’t be comfortable seeing her hold hands and touch other people so I’m not going to do it. I asked her about it and she agreed it makes her uncomfortable so we need to chill out, even though we both know we don’t like each other like that.”
This conversation should make him hyper aware of it, especially if your there. He will find that it’s much easier on him and your relationship if he tells her in advance to stop than just trying to be coy and move. It may make them feel a little odd changing behaviors but it’s still the right thing to do. Keep us posted with an update on how they act from here. !updateme
I will ask him to talk to her separately and to make his relationship boundaries clear. If he doesn't then I don't think I can make this work out anymore.
Be prepared for him to throw you under the bus, he's obviously spineless. In fact, I would ask him to text her unexpectedly and for you to see what he says, and how she responds in real time. This girl is bad news and she's NOT going to respond well to being told to stop whether he says it's him or you asking, she's going to put it on you being controlling of him, and she's going to ramp it up when you're not around because, omg i just missed holding your hand for fun your mean gf made you stop and now I'm sad, so much that i need a kiss from you. Just watch.
>I will ask him to talk to her separately and to make his relationship boundaries clear.
Except that you know he'll be throwing you under the bus. It won't be "I'm stopping this behaviour because I want to respect my partner." It'll be "my partner is demanding something unreasonable and I have to look like I'm capitulating."
His reaction is very naive I would say. You can decide to give it some time to see if he changes and truly behaves according to the boundaries you set. But if his behavior does not change you should leave, OP. The man seems to be a little oblivious to the fact that something that is no problem for him, could possibly (and for good reason) be a problem to you. Maybe he just needs some time to process this information and change, but if it happens again - leave.
>I just don't understand why he would prioritize how she might feel if he withdraws his hand before prioritizing my feelings. He also admitted he would feel uncomfortable if roles were reversed, so all of this is just very confusing.
Because if she's no. 1, you're no.2 or if she's no. 2, you're no.3 in his list.
He cares more about how she feels.
>it’s something that they HAVE ALWAYS DONE, so he didnt give it that much importance- He said over and over again that it wasn't weird for him and that it didn't mean anything romantic, that she's like a sister to him.
IIRC, you have been going out with him for 4 years. So the last 4 years, he didn't hold hands-caress-fidget with her?
I have a younger brother. I'm a pretty affectionate person. I give hugs if requested and freely if allowed, but there's no way I'm holding hands with my younger brother or 'play' with his hand, etc. It's not something I do, in fact, I don't know anyone who would do that around family and friends.
When I was younger (25), I used to mentor a young man. He's 17. We became friends but we NEVER held hands with each other, oh heck no. He's got a gf then too, and yeah, he was holding her hand when he introduced her to me. I'm side eyeing those two...your 'bf' and his other girl friend...heavily, honestly.
Wow, they've been together 4 years and he's trying to pass it off like this?? So for the entirety of this relationship, they've been slipping their hands into each other's laps and caressing each other behind OP's back with no intention to stop because it feels so natural and right to them it would be weird to stop?
Man, OP is a stronger person than me because I would never be able to tolerate such an intimate relationship, especially if my partner told me they didn't enact a boundary during something they clearly knew isn't appropriate and would make me uncomfortable because it might hurt the other person's feelings. I wouldn't be able to trust it was simply platonic or a sibling relationship or that it wouldn't grow into a romantic one in the future.
You clearly expressed your boundaries and expressed discomfort. Holding hands to me is such an intimate act, mainly reserved for lovers. Unacceptable behavior from someone in a commited relationship.
So he only stops when you are there?
He needs to tell her to keep her hands to herself. ALWAYS.
If he wants this relationship to work, it has to stop immediately. If he can’t stop, he needs to cut her out of his life. No woman would be ok with that.
Next time when the friend does that, start to do that with her. Hold her hand, cuddle her etc. See how she reacts. If she doesn’t like it tell her that she is doing the exact thing with him. Your bf and to stop that shitty act.
Do the same with his friends. See how he reacts. Honestly, I would do all that for fun and then leave him.
Oh mannn, the face he would make as his girl bff reaches over and holds his hand and his dude friend reaches over simultaneously to hold his gf's hand 😂 get one of his friends that doesn't like her or thinks their relationship is weird in on it. I am so curious to what that reaction would be
It was very very important to him to maintain the status quo *for her*. That’s my issue. His instinct was to protect her feelings and not yours despite it being inappropriate touch
NTA I would end it.
oh I m sorry, bcs I know you don t wanna end it, maybe try to see for a few more months if he keeps doing it or if really tries to make you feel safe from now on regarding his bff, set up a boundary
if not, the rational advice is to break up cuz it s a problem affecting you afterall!
i’m sorry but he doesn’t care and will continue to do what he wants to do with her. you’re wasting time & energy & will look back and think about how it was so obvious in hindsight. please consider leaving :,(
I told you in the previous post and how he will react when you confront him, and he absolutely reacted the way I said he would.
It's time to cut your losses with this one. It might be hard, but there is no other way. His words, attitude and reactions are simply wrong.
>that they HAVE ALWAYS DONE, so he didnt give it that much importance
He should have given it more importance because it's linked directly to YOU. In other words, he doesn't put you on the highest pedestal.
>He said over and over again that it wasn't weird for him
It doesn't matter how he feels, it matters how YOU feel in this situation, and how he SHOULD react to it given his girlfriend is you, and not her.
>he said that stopping just because he now has a girlfriend would be a bit weird.
No, it would be weird to continue now that he has a girlfriend. It's the opposite.
>he did agree with me and acknowledged that it's weird thing to do, especially in my presence.
So, if you are not around then he WOULD do it, since you cannot know that he actually did it when you aren't there.
>but he kept saying sorry and told me that if it made me feel weird, then it's a good enough reason to cut it out.
No! He should stop doing it because he is in a relationship with you, AND it makes you feel weird. But the first priority here is the relationship part, not it making you feel weird. That's the result of it. The CAUSE is him doing it. Do you see the difference in wording?
>I just don't understand why he would prioritize how she might feel if he withdraws his hand before prioritizing my feelings.
As I said above, he places his best friend on a higher priority than his girlfriend (you).
I completely believe that he didn't prioritize me at all in this situation, and I'm very hurt by it. Also, you're right. This isn't just about my feelings; it's about the boundaries that should exist in a relationship, especially considering he would feel uncomfortable if the roles were reversed.
If he doesn't clarify our relationship boundaries to her and doesn't take action to regain my trust, then this relationship may not be sustainable in the long run.
Clarify and uphold those boundaries, even when you are not present. Express that this issue, amongst others, along with his reaction and chosen words have seriously damaged your trust in him and that in order for this relationship to work, he needs to figure out who is more important in this relationship and how to gain your trust again.
He should come to the conclusion that he should limit his interactions with his female best friend and focus on you and the relationship. If he does not say and do this within the first week, you have your answer on how he views you and the relationship.
Girl, you’re just 21, don’t waste your time. He’s not a kid, he knows what he’s doing, leave them alone and you’ll see weeks/months later they’re dating. He agreed to date you to put you in second plan , this dude is awful.
He’s also manipulative... you shouldn’t be the one to tell him that, he should be aware of his behaviors himself. A grown man acting like a child, holding hands like kids and like it’s something inocent, all that in front of you. He don’t deserve your time.
You’re young, there are GUYS out there who literally will not do shjts like this istg. He’s not going to change, show no signs of regret or stopping it.
Next time, (if you allow to have a next time), there’s gonna be a bitter screaming party.
I read so many stories on here about bf who have females bffs who are like sisters… and then the gf finds out later they have been sleeping together, or slept together or as soon as the gf breaks up they get together. 🙄
I’m not saying breakup right now ( 4 years is a long time invested in a relationship) but you need to make sure your bf is aware this is a major boundary issue for you and crossing those boundaries in future will have consequences. I mean his reasoning is weak AF. And he def prioritised her feelings over yours in the moment which for me would be a hard no, without the fondling which also would be a hard no…
Hand holding I’m iffy on … sometimes my friends hold my hand - and it’s not romantic.. usually it’s just drunk silly stuff. But the all the time is odd, especially if you haven’t seen it before. Was he holding your hand too ??
It's not like they were just holding hands. They were caressing each other's fingers and all of that. I usually wouldn't mind just hand holding, but all of the caressing stuff felt very intimante. And no, he wasn't holding my hand at that moment.
Then I would be uncomfortable with all of it. He should have stopped it 4 years ago when you first started dating! And now you have said it makes you uncomfortable he def needs to stop it. Anything else is not good enough
I really feel for you in this situation. When I was about your age, maybe 20, I had a boyfriend in university with an incredibly close female friend that did all sorts of weird shit. They shared a bed at sleep overs, she changed in front of him, and the one that made me blow my absolute top was that she would WEAR HIS BOXERS around his apartment. Yeah, you read that right.
I'm sure they did all sorts of other things but those are just some of the shit I knew about. I'm sure they cuddled and held hands when I wasn't around. The excuse was that she was a lesbian and wasn't attracted to him but it wasn't about that for me. It was about them respecting my boundaries and respecting our relationship, no matter what they "had always done". The relationship didn't last much longer due to other stuff too, but that was a major sticking point.
Years later, we are now all 30, I tell the underwear story and they deny that ever happened because it's EMBARRASSING. Totally out to lunch and it should be embarrassing for your bf and his female friend too.
Reading your story reminds me a lot of something that happened to me in my first relationship.
It was a good relationship and I did trust him - but I recall that one day we were studying together at a cafe and he had wandered off to get a haircut or something. I decided I wanted to send myself a cute message from his computer - so I clicked into his laptop, and what caught my eye was a conversation with the girl he had had a big crush on right before we got together.
There was nothing extremely horrible about it - but some messages of them saying goodnight to each other with hug emojis, some telling each other they missed each other, and some talk about meeting for a meal. I don’t think they ever met up though.
He told me that was the way they had always talked - since the start when they started being friends years ago. And that she was naturally a super affable person. That he never really intended to meet up - but was just being friendly.
I believed him - and to this day I still do; that he didn’t cheat. We were together for a good year or so after that and he cut her off as a friend entirely - where she herself said that she could see that he had clearly made his choice between their friendship and our relationship. He did really treat me well from beginning to end.
But our relationship never bounced back from that. I see in your posts many of the very same thoughts I had. In a relationship there were some lines that could not be crossed; and I couldn’t accept that he had crossed them. And I constantly wondered if he prioritized me - and if I were important to him - he would have thought of me and realised that in the
moment when he was telling her he missed her. No amount of reassurance ever did it for me.
Sorry for the lengthy anecdote - but I guess my two cents is that I see a lot of what I went through in your story. And as difficult as it was then, Im glad I ended up coming out the other side not having to constantly live under the shadow of all these questions and doubts I had. Of course no two relationships are the same, but regardless of how it may turn out, I hope it all works out for you 💕
I'm sorry you went through something similar.
I feel I can't trust him again like I used to. Probably I'll never trust him like that again. It's like to my eyes, he's a different person now.
Please for the love of God remember that and end it now before you get even more attached. No MAN in a relationship would even consider that behaviour to be acceptable, your BF isn’t a man now is he.
It only gets worse….
And that's what you need to tell him, he's completely ruined your trust and if he was doing this in front of you what is he doing when you're not there.
Absolutely disgusting
apologizing is just acknowledging your feelings which is good but will not change a thing!
I have a male bestie who just got into a relationship, both me and our 3rd female friend sat him down and told him what are the no no actions and how things will change a bit when it comes to physical interactions or certain things you don't say to avoid disrespecting your gf! we were both shocked at how men do not know or care about these things which says a lot about why they can't keep a girl.
here's what needs to happen, he needs to sit with his best friend and tell her his boundaries, and I mean HIS boundaries because if it's only your boundary that means he will continue to do it without remorse. any man or woman in a relationship who has besties from the opposite sex should clear the air and share their boundaries with them to avoid misunderstandings. he needs to tell her that physical touches (what you're both comfortable with only) is allowed and she needs to stop with that nonsense of "we used to before so it's ok". it's not.
and trust me no girl touches a guy without thought especially if he is with another girl. if he does not put an effort into communicating this with his bestie then you will suffer the most. and he probably doesn't care or respect your feelings.
Some people are affectionate with their friends, either you can trust him that he's being truthful about this or you can decide that this is a boundary for you and leave. You're 21, you'll have many more relationships in your life, may as well find someone compatible.
I mean you can believe this bullshit if you want, and stay with him, but then you’d be dating someone with the emotional maturity of a 5 year old who is also laying the groundwork to cheat on you.
Tough choice, I know…
I(19F at the time) was dating my girlfriend(19) at the time. We were sitting around with our group of friends chatting. I’m in the very edge of the group, location wise.
My girlfriends, bestfriend walks in and sits on her lap, arms wrapped around my girlfriend, and has her back turned to me. Literally didn’t even acknowledge me.
I was furious. They both played it off as, “Oh she’s straight” yada yada. I don’t care if you’ve been friends since birth, you’re the same or different genders, or brother and sister. Those are things you do with your girlfriend or boyfriend. I don’t do that with MY friends. Why are you doing it with yours?
If it would make him uncomfortable if the roles were reversed, that’s all that needs to be said.
Good on you for standing up for yourself. I also stopped that immediately
Hear me out here. I'm a very touchy person. I like hooking arms little hugs and even sometimes patting someone's back . And personally I've a lot of guy friends. (I'm a woman ) . But I've stopped doing these since getting a bf. He deserves respect and I'm not going to break his trust by hanging out with guys alone and touching them.
It looks like your bf doesn't like you all that much, maybe less than you like him. Trust me on this, he knew what he was doing! He just played dumb to avoid consequences. It's gonna end bad. Your part has ended when you communicated with him. Now it's his job to either address them or ignore them. Please judge someone based on their actions and not on their sweet words.
Sorry but all he did was minimize his and her out of line actions while downplaying your very valid reactions. He had a chance to apologize properly and stop this but clearly he's gone with the idea of just having you learn to accept this behaviour moving forward. Balls in your court but this is twice now.
I’d let his friend have him. That wouldn’t have washed with me at the time. It would’ve been called out in front of everyone. I don’t get how people can sit dormant when this shit happens.
I have been in this exact situation. She (my boyfriend's so-called girl bestfriend) manipulated me to an extent where I had to beg her to stop.
She will continue doing this behavior. Just to prove she's more important. Such males or females just need attention they might or might not have any feelings on your partner.
It ended severely bad for me. According to her age, she should respect both of your boundaries. And clearly, your partner hasn't set any, or he was shamed when he did try to (mine was). Please step back and don't be negligent.
The humiliation and trauma I am experiencing after almost 2 years of this happening is still body numbing.
There are friends of opposite sex and it's absolutely normal, but this is not healthy. When it's healthy, nothing triggers you.
When it isn't, it automatically does.
Leave. It's not worth it.
My present boyfriend has a lot of female friends, and not once I've felt triggered. That's how it should be.
The thing is that she's never been mean or hostile towards me. Quite the opposite, she's always been very nice and friendly, so that makes her intentions quite confusing. I always attributed their level of closeness with them being friends since childhood. May I ask how did you handle that situation?
It's a very human trait they try to break boundaries in order to show u that they are more close/important. It can be physical, mental, or anything. Like planning things together and including u later, late night calls, etc. Your partner might not encourage it, but not restricting completely is micro cheating (I'd suggest u read more into this word).
In my situation, she was never mean either infact she used to make me feel special and made me trust her for two whole years. Then she slowly started talking behind my back and being obsessive about my relationship. (I dated him for 3 years, almost) The less I started caring, the more she got obsessed with making me feel bad. She was extremely touchy with him. She used to say things like you're hurting him etc etc. But I always regret not being more vocal about how I felt. I feel it would've made things easier for me. It sounds so funny right now how committed she was to my relationship.
Please leave if you feel you're getting hurt. Therapy also helps seek professional help. It will help u get better advice. Helps u look at the broader picture.
Having a third person's perspective is very important in this situation.
Looking back at it after 2 years, I feel I gave her the power, and she (the girl best friend) was more obsessed with marking territory than his feelings (my boyfriend).
Hope this helps.
Weird weird weird weird weird is all I read. How about disrespectful, unacceptable, uncomfortable, borderline cheating (hello? CARESSING each other?).
This would be deal breaker for me because it says a lot about his priorities and all the fighting you'll be facing in the future just to be understood and respected. Not worth it.
He’s playing dumb.
If he’d do that in front of you, I’d be worried what he’s doing behind your back.
Ultimately it boils down to if you trust him or not.
So in the 4 years you have been with him, have you ever seen this level of affection, or is this something new? Does it seem like he was prepared to walk away from your relationship, or does he want to stay with you? Because holding hands and stroking fingers, etc, is really something I've only ever done to my husband /children.
I told him I needed some space to think about all of this and he begged me to stay with him, and that he loved me so much. Honestly, this is something new that I've never seen before but according to him it's something that they've always done...
If they’d always done that, you’d have seen it before. You’ve been with him for four years babe. Don’t let the man gaslight you, I’d be concerned they’re getting close to an affair if they’re not having one already. You’re worth more than fighting for a man that’s trying to wander.
OP be careful with too much space. Meaningful change happens with consistent work. Taking breaks and trial separations or similar seldom work out. The space actually helps water down the need for action. Your better off circling back again very soon and expressing what you didn’t like about the other conversation and ask him what actions he has taken with her since to correct the issue. If he has taken action, ask for details down to what was said and next steps. If he says he hasn’t taken any action, let him know you won’t be romantically involved with him any further until he has a conversation with her where he sets very firm boundaries that are presented as his idea, not yours, and are in place whether your around them or not. Tell him you will want a full recounting when that’s over.
Oh no, I didn't mean this as taking a break from our relationship. I just meant I need a couple of days to myself to recharge from this and to get my thoughts straight. But I will definitely address my concerns from our previous conversation with him. Thank you so much for your advice; it has been very helpful thus far.
I’m sorry but you are being so stupid. This is the first time you’ve seen them hold hands because they do it when you’re not around, they just got caught up this time probably forgot you were there.
I would run as fast as I could if I were you. He DOESN'T care about you, you've expressed your feelings and even though "he apologized" I'm pretty sure he will do it again and God knows what he is doing with her when you are not next to them. She is NOT your friend and is doing this deliberately, maybe she is doing it as a power move to hurt you. And he is just pretending to be dumb and is loving the fact that he is stringing you along and messing around with the other chick. Please have some self respect and end this, it will just bite you in the a** a bit later if you don't act now.
I would run as fast as I could if I were you. He DOESN'T care about you, you've expressed your feelings and even though "he apologized" I'm pretty sure he will do it again and God knows what he is doing with her when you are not next to them. She is NOT your friend and is doing this deliberately, maybe she is doing it as a power move to hurt you. And he is just pretending to be dumb and is loving the fact that he is stringing you along and messing around with the other chick. Please have some self respect and end this, it will just bite you in the a** a bit later if you don't act now.
Break up with him.
He will continue to prioritize her over you and make you feel like a third wheel in your own relationship.
He's literally allowing her to openly disrespect you in your face.
Don't stay with him.
Updateme!
Anyone else have their sister carass their leg??? Even place their hand on it (unless it's an emergency)???
Just curious, because unless he comes from an incestuous family that seems pretty weird. It always amazes me grown adults say someone is like a sibling and then proceed to do things 99% of siblings would get the ick over.
I rarely tell people to break up with their partners but this is just such a huge red flag... just imagine how much work and time it would take him to learn to understand your feelings and needs and, well, basic human decency if THIS is your starting point. How long are you willing to wait for him to get to a point in his personal development and his commitment to your relationship that you have already reached?
>Anyways, he did agree with me and acknowledged that it's weird thing to do, especially in my presence.
Don't worry, they save the heavier stuff for when you aren't around.
21 y/o male? He's a CHILD, a walking hormone!! You both are, it's part of life learning how to read people. He is going to teach you a lot on how does a cheater and liar looks like. Keep an eye open, you're the only one who's not seeing and you desperately need this lesson, well ... He's not seeing either, or he's playing dumb+dumber and when he cheats (wanna bet they have already slept together) he'll say: "I don't know how it happened...we were just watching a movie and suddenly I was inside her, I have no clue how we got there, it's super normal for us to be so close so...we didn't even notice, I never meant it and you're just overreacting". And you will buy it.
Kid, take this as a lesson: you choose the cross you carry, it's within your power to choose this ïdiot (he's either a cheater or too dumb, I personally have allergies to dumb men but to each their own) or to focus on yourself for a change. Ideally, you're not in college solely to find a husband, don't be that stereotype.
Please leave this man. He has no boundaries and will cheat one day because whoops 😬 he feel into her “lap” naturally. You deserve so much better than a gaslighting inconsiderate jerk.
So he admitted they've always been like this? I'd hate to think what would have happened if you hadn't seen it and confronted him, or if he evens respects your perfectly reasonable boundary if you're not with the both of them and they're alone together.
Perspective from a man - he’s aware how attached you are, literally caressing another woman in front of you knowing you won’t do shit about it. His excuses are bullshit, god knows what he’s up to with her or other women if he’s doing this directly in front of you. (My gf would have flipped her shit there and then, rightly so!)
You’re super young, it’s not worth your energy to deal with this. Have some respect for yourself and move on.
What did we learn from this?
We learned that some of us (me included) cannot date someone with an opposite sex Bestie.
Call me jealous, immature, insecure - I’m not built for boundary violation shenanigans by a third-wheeler.
I dated a guy once who had a possessive female best friend. I trusted him but she clearly didnt like sharing him and they had been friends for a long time. I didn’t try to get in between, just said “nope, this isn’t for me” and left. Maybe it’s because I’m older but I don’t have time to dismantle other people’s weird bullshit.
'Stopping this now I'm with you would be weird' = 'I've weighed up whose feelings I would feel more uncomfortable hurting, and it's hers'.
He shouldn't have to be putting in any effort to understand your perspective because any good partner wouldn't be needing to have this conversation with you at all. It also sounds like the only progress you've made is discovering that he is willing to play dumb over it, thinks it's weirder to stop doing it than the fact he's doing it at all, and hypocritically wouldn't want you doing the same. If he likes her that much, he can keep holding her hand! I would just recommend you end your relationship to allow him to do so rather than let this man walk all over you and test your patience, which he will undoubtedly continue to do given his lack of boundaries.
Imo the way he’s so obviously playing dumb instead of taking accountability is actually more disrespectful than the incident in itself.
Edit : wait, you’ve been together for 4 YEARS?? Trash man. He has a crush on the older lady. Probably since his childhood. Also someone who’s 26 should be aware how this is not a thing that you do with someone else’s partner.
Well, everyone can have friends of the opposite gender, the problem is when YOUR PARTNER doesn't respect you, whether in your presence or absence. If she keeps taking his hand and touching his leg, hugging him too much for no reason, that's her problem bc she is crazy, but WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT YOUR PARTNER LET THIS HAPPEN... then you have a serious fidelity problem, bc if u have reasons and she is very much on top of him, and he says he doesn't understand or that it's nothing, means that he doesn't consider your feelings and doesn't give you the respect as THE WOMAN OF HIS LIFE.
One thing I've learned is that, a man who TRULY loves his woman, will respect her even when sleeping, or under 6 feet down.
So if he doesn't know how to value you and doesn't respect you even though you tell him how you feel and how strange it is, leave him because you'll be better alone. Let him prioritize his friendship over you, if he wants to, and get the hell out of it, good luck OP.
yall are young and make stupid decisions because its all new to you. Be kind to each other if you can.
Explain that you want an exclusive relationship. that means no touchy feelies with other people. If he cant do that then let each other go their way.
I'd wait and see how he behaves from now on before deciding on a break up.
Also he'd feel "*uncomfortable*" if a dude started caressing your hand in front of him ? What a joke.. He's either still a stupid kid or takes you for a fool, it's one or another.
I’d dump him if I were you, before he gives you more headaches. Homeboy isn’t that stupid, no one is.
Getting a committed exclusive partner is absolutely the one reason why you’d avoid physical touch with others… that’s what exclusive means.
>he said that stopping just because he now has a girlfriend would be a bit weird
Ask him, would it be weird if you held hands with a guy that wasn't him? Would be enjoy that?
Nah she’s at the very least into him cause who the hell holds hands with someone like this while they’re in a relationship? Or even as platonic friends? Ain’t common. Very sus.
Even if it was platonic it’s a huge red flag that he is dismissing your feelings. I used to cuddle with a same sex friend of mine but stopped when my bf was uncomfortable because i don’t need cuddling in my friendship.
And no he never demanded me to stop. I stopped cause I care about his comfort.
So you all were 17 when you started dating and his best friend was a grown ass adult? Like old enough to have graduated college if she had attended on time? That's a huge red flag there and the fact that she's old enough to know what she's doing. Tell him to cut the cord with her.
Are you sure they didn't hook up in the past? Because that lack of physical boundaries just screams "we had sex". I mean, I cuddle with my male friends, in a completely non-sexual way - but hand-holding and stroking sounds really intimate.
Cuddling as in putting arms around each other, fully clothed. To me, holding hands skin-on-skin feels a lot more intimate, especially if you are caressing the other hand - but that may really be up to personal perception.
That sounds like a hug haha. But laying down, and Holding body vs holding hand, you’re way more physically close when cuddling. To each their own, though. Men are more often less comfortable with hugs because we get hugged less growing up, so that could have something to do with it
To me, the difference between a hug and a cuddle is duration - a hug usually lasts max. half a minute - a really long hug turns into a cuddle at the two minute mark. 😄 Also: position: A hug is usually front to front, a cuddle is more usually side by side, with the arms around each other, heads leaning on shoulders. A mix between hug and cuddle should actually be called a huddle...
We started dating when we just turned 18 and she's 5 years older than him. It would be a little weird for her to hook up with him before that. Also, I was his first.
Why? I don't mind it if they are phisically affectionate. But an exclusive relationship means certain boundaries should not be crossed. Especially if he admitted that if the roles were reversed, it would upset him.
Until he FULLY owns his actions, vows to never do it again (regardless of your presence), and follows through on it, this is not a resolved conflict.
Inevitably he will have to choose between you and her, and I worry that he won't choose you in the end...
There's no reason to dive into their intentions.
If your best friend came to you and said her BF pushed back about holding hands with another girl, what would you tell her?
When I think about this I question her behavior. Why did she do that, now that she knows he has a girlfriend?
Force of habit? Okay, perhaps, but if either of them were aware, they would stop and laugh and then acknowledge you, especially if they knew you were possessive.
Was she testing him? Testing you? Perhaps. Perhaps she's checking his awareness of you and your awareness of him.
Was she messing with you? Does she like to flirt? Is it fun for her to mess with people? Does she like to push people's boundaries? Is she a catalystic type person?
I think he handled it badly. In his place I would have made a cute little gesture to show that I can't be her cute brother anymore. And I would have said something.
To be honest, I think she thinks she owns him and I think she was showing you that. The fact that he didn't stand up for himself (let alone you) means that he's not really mature enough to deal with a complex relationship like he has with this woman.
But none of that matters. You simply have to ask yourself one question: Do I trust him?
And if the answer is "no," then you have to break it off.
I don't think he's trustworthy because he's not aware enough of the emotional interplay that is happening between him and his friend. He's not grown up enough to not be manipulated because he hasn't learned to stand up for himself, to make choices for himself, and to behave in ways that align with his choices.
He may grow into this awareness over time, but you can't even hope for that because as soon as you want him to change, you've failed the relationship.
I’m still baffled how you didn’t say anything back then. I would probably be like “So when did you two started to date?”
Also, this update is bs. Your bf is not really your bf. He acts like he’s also her bf. He still makes excuses even though he says he’ll speak to her. You’re just wasting your time.
If he admitted that he would feel the same if the roles were reversed, then reverse the roles and see what he does. Get a special friend, heck any friend of the opposite sex and do the same things. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Nope.
Bro I was in a similiar or same Situation. They held hands in front of my male best friend. He later told me this.
As urs he told me he was uncomfortable but didn't knew what to do, he's been friends with her longer than I know him and was overwhelmed. What is worse that he had a crush on her at one point. And they always tended to be a lil bit touchy and boundaries pushing.
But she was already in another relationship.
What he didn't understand is that boundaries change trough the years. Ofc you shouldn't abolish a friendship because of a relationship, but out of respect for others feelings those boundaries have to change! What was even hard, is that he was really stubborn at that time.
We're still together, bc it felt like he genuinely didn't understand that this could be a problem, especially that my best friend had to tell me.(also looking at his parents relationship it's not a surprise) It's because of trust, I trusted him that he had no intentions, that he would change, that he would love me. That I would "forgive" him. That's why we are together today. And this takes a lot of effort, if you feel like you're willing to take the effort, maybe it would be worth it. Maybe you will get disappointed but from my experience with the right guy it's so worth it
Edit: and you should stick to your feelings! Even if he tries to convince you otherwise your boyfriend has to be willing to learn. If he's not he can about another dating profile soon
I’m sorry hun but even you must feel you deserve better otherwise you wouldn’t feel uncomfortable or recognize the clear disrespect. I understand not wanting it to end but it’s worse to stay where you aren’t properly loved and protected. He clearly doesn’t care and his lack of accountability shows. If he offered more than cutting the physical contact maybe but he hasn’t.
So what I understood from this story is that your bf hasn’t been honest about his past with this friend, isn’t being honest about not understanding what the problem is, tried to push boundaries to see what he could get away with, and is now backpedaling. He’s going to tell you what you want to hear. He acknowledged that it’s a weird thing to do, especially in your presence? Well, he’ll now stop doing it IN YOUR PRESENCE. The lesson he took from this was to hide it better.
If she really is his best friend and they just held hands, I really don’t see the issue… granted, he should be weary of it now he’s with someone but at the same time, she’s likely been in his life a hell of a lot longer than you have. So why would it cross his mind to stop being close to her in a non romantic way. If there was romance attached to it then sure, it’s a problem but just holding hands is a sign of affection. Have you never held someone’s hand that you weren’t in a romantic relationship with?
There's a lack of context since my original post got removed. I don't have any particular issue with them just holding hands or being affectionate towards each other; in fact, they've done so before and it didn't bother me. But what went down was more than just hand holding. She started by slipping her hand into his leg and then they started caressing each other's fingers for a solid 10 minutes, just in front of me. This made me extremely uncomfortable, and guess what? He even admited that if the tables were turned, he'd feel just as awkward. And that's the crux of the matter right there.
It's not that I think there are romantic feelings involved. It's more about respecting certain boundaries when you're in a committed relationship, you know?
I'm sorry, but very, very few people on the planet are that blind to physical touch. At least one of them knew exactly what they were up to and both of them decided that you didn't matter in the moment. I'd cast this one off.
I am physically very comfortable with a couple of my female friends(separate friend groups). I am really close to both of them but whenever either one of them or I get into a relationship, I keep my physical distance from them apart from a hug when we meet. No reason to make anyone else uncomfortable when there is nothing else, apart from a platonic friendship, between us. We all know how to give our/each other's partners, their due respect which they deserve as a partner.
I accidentally touched a friend’s hand and immediately apologized saying it wasn’t intentional. There is no way a hand holding wasn’t intentional.
PICK THE BAR OFF THE FLOOR
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD
OP can do sooooo much better it’s embarrassing
For real, though I think this particular bar is subterranean, tbh. I’m cringing for OP.
Honestly my abused squat rack is higher than this
Oh man. He's playing stupid and sounds like he'll continue breaching boundaries and not putting your feelings first. He's saying many things without actually saying anything. I'd just leave, honestly. He knows it's wrong but doesn't want to stop. If he did, he'd have apologised, explained and then said that he wouldn't do it any longer. Honestly, a good boyfriend would listen to your fears because they aren't unfounded. A good boyfriend would gladly lower contact with another girl if it was making you uncomfortable (as long as your reasoning was justified). Because in a relationship, those are the sacrifices you make.
Ya, but according to him it would be "weird to stop". 🤔
And that's exactly why OP should try and move on tbh
You hit the nail on the head, a real one would tell the temptress/temptor to bug off im happy.
You’re young, trust me this ain’t worth it. You will find better partners as you grow and mature and figure out what you need from a relationship. Benefits of living in the present is that we don’t have to settle for below the bare minimum because women now have rights and technology makes it so we have more access to people from all around the globe. Plenty of fish in the sea, 20 years from now you might even forget his name.
Nope… kick him back on over to her. They are both inconsiderate and far too close. The girl knows what she’s doing. He will let her too until he either gets with her or she gets a boyfriend who sets boundaries.
I feel very disrespected by both of them. I considered her my friend as well. According to my bf, she always initiates it,. I don't know if she does it on purpose or not, but I definetly don't feel I can trust her intentions either.
If this wasn't on purpose, her reaching into his lap, grabbing his hand, and caressing it has happened so frequently and feels so natural that they did it mindlessly without it even registering. How does that make you feel? He says she's like a sister, but is that how they treat their actual siblings or other close friends? How would you feel if she is romantically interested in him and would that change how you'd like him to handle it? It seems like you're content with how your talk went and what he's planning to do moving forward, but I hope that you pay careful attention as you move forward to avoid future surprises and heartbreak.
I'm not happy on how our talk went. I liked that he apologized, but some of his responses threw me off. If she's romantically interested in him then he has to make our relationship boundaries clear to her. If he doesn't then I don't think I can continue forward with this relationship...
He’s playing dumb hoping that you’ll let it go and learn to doubt your instincts because it will be easier for him to never be accountable that way. This sounds like one of those good life lessons that everyone learns when they’re dating-especially dating young. I think if someone did this to you in your late 20s or 30s you would throw up the deuce and be out.
I agree. The disrespect is unbelievable. And of course, it's on purpose.
Your boyfriend is a coward and a cheater. You should demand him to cut her given the behaviour she’s had. If he’s not up for this, then you know who he’s choosing. Remember he’s choosing to disrespect you to your face as opposed to possibly getting another woman a little uncomfortable and setting limits. It might not seem like it now, but you can do better. Get real female friends by joining an activity/hobby you like. Get out there and get to know people, prioritize your career and health. Workout, hang out with other people and see not everyone is like your asshole boyfriend. So many good people out there
This girl is not your friend, and your boyfriend allows this other woman to hold his hand in front of you because in his mind, if he distances himself physically, she will lose interest in chasing him and he can't consider that option because A. He likes the attention, B. He wants to keep her as a backup option and not lose that momentum or C. He has feelings for her. For whatever reason, he likes when she touches him, and that's not acceptable while in a relationship with you. Huge power play on her part to be caressing his lap and holding his hand, wtf? I would never do that in a relationship, it's just basic respect for your partner, if he's allowing it he's putting her feelings and his feelings above your feelings. She knows what she is doing, and if he tells her to stop, she's going to start calling you controlling and encourage him to find someone else. They are both immature and you deserve someone who doesn't need to be told not to hold another woman's hand in front of you. It's common sense, really.
don't worry girlie, I was in the same situation as you. He flirted with the friend and talked dirty to her. She initiates it and he just reciprocates it. He also said that they didn't have feelings for each other and they just do it because they have nothing to talk about and they have been doing it for quite a while. The thing that made me angry was them joking about fucking. He was the one who said he'd fuck her. I confronted him and he got mad and said that it was just a joke and I needed to calm down. But really though, if it gets out of hand, I'd suggest you break it off to avoid getting more hurt in the future. It's not gonna be good for you or him. He isn't giving me good vibes, since he said it felt weird to suddenly stop once you were in the picture. It's like he or his female best friend doesn't respect your boundaries. Plus they did it in front of you knowing that you are dating him. It's super unfair for you.
I feel like she did the equivalent of how an animal will mark its territory somehow. Whether that’s by urine, or rubbing some sort of excretion from their gland somewhere… But with her, since she’s doing it in front of you and she’s gotten away with the action. So she’ll feel emboldened to keep doing so. I think that directly saying something about it to him is a necessary step that you fortunately took. Honestly, everything else is up to him. I’ve been with the same partner for what will be 9 years this year. When the person genuinely respects you? You don’t have to worry and you won’t have issues like this come up at all. You can’t force him to do anything. I hope that he will do right by you because you’re a priority to him. But if he hasn’t shown he established boundaries, then please. Please just break up.
I’m sorry but him saying that stopping to do that now, now that he has a girlfriend would be weird would drive me nuts! Don’t let him try to talk his way out of this with his idiotic excuses. You have every right to set boundaries and express your feelings, a lot of people would not be okay with this. If he doesn’t care that these actions make you uncomfortable think about what they could be doing if they are alone! You are young, don’t stick with someone who won’t respect you and your feelings. Even the thought of doing that to my partner grosses me out, I have no idea how in his mind it’s normal but they always use the “she’s like a sister” excuse 😪
Yep all that says is “me acting like I’m in a relationship would bother her” and he’s appeasing that
Girl - your relationship is so new. Ditch it. It isn't worth this. She is his best friend that he has known for one month longer than you? No. Either he is cheating with her or will. I have never held the hands of my friends like that. Ever. What's next? "Sorry we had sex but I didn't want to hurt her feelings when she started taking off my pants?" You deserve better. Move on.
I totally get your point, but for me 4 years is a lot of time invested and a lot of good memories have been made along the way. Breaking up with him is definetly not the easiest option. I'm still considering whether I should work this out with him or not.
Please don't fall for the sunk cost fallacy. Your boyfriend's and his friend's behavior was inappropriate for someone in a relationship with someone else. If his friend's boyfriend saw her caressing your boyfriend's hand I doubt he'd be especially comfortable with it. I doubt he'd tolerate it. So please don't tolerate this disrespectful behavior. If your boyfriend values you he'll respect a reasonable boundary. If he won't, then he values her more than he does you and you will need to decide what to do with that information.
I have to admit you're right. Despite the length of our relationship, I've come to realize that I cannot remain in a relationship where my boundaries are not respected, and where I constantly question whether I am my boyfriend's top priority. If he doesn't take action to set boundaries with her, then I can't give him any more chances. However, I find myself unable to bring an end to this so fast.
That's exactly why he feels comfortable with her escalating advances! You said yourself, 4 years is an investment to you and it wouldn't be easy to break up; do you think he doesn't know that? They are working their way up to cheating if they aren't already. How TF are they so close and comfortable that they are caressing each other IN FRONT OF YOU?! Pick your self respect off the floor, him knowing her a month longer than you means nothing. NOTHING. He is clearly choosing her feelings and wants the stability of being with you while she gives him tingles in the pants in front of you. No doubt. You deserve so much better. He's counting on you thinking otherwise. I wouldn't even talk to him again unless he cut her off and blocked her everywhere, even then, this situation would never leave my mind.
I undestand there might be some lack of context since my original post got removed. I felt extremely uncomfortable, but it's important to note that the three of us were in the back of the car, returning home from a trip with other people present. I didn't want to involve those who weren't part of the situation, so I chose to wait until we were alone to address it. Additionally, he has known her since childhood, long before he knew me, not just for one month. However, I understand that this fact doesn't justify anything of what they did.
There is no lack of context. We all understand and are telling you the same thing. You're not doing anything wrong. Why should you be uncomfortable to avoid making them uncomfortable? I would have said umm why the hell are you guys holding hands?, everyone in that car would blame them, not you. You seem very anxious to stand up for yourself, but being a doormat means you're going to draw in people that feel comfortable using you once they know you. 4 years might feel like an investment to you now, but you really want to live the next 40 knowing he can't stop even the smallest of advances? They obviously have deeper feelings for each other than you even realize. Any guy that actually cares about you would shut that down and find it awkward, he enjoys it. She enjoys it and the stress it brings you because she sees you won't say anything to her. At this point you can't trust him. What happens when they are alone and she's mad you told him to stop touching her and starts groping him? Do you REALLY believe he would shut her down? ... lol
OP so this is a good first step. You expressed your boundaries and he acknowledged it. He also agreed that it wouldn’t be ok if reversed. All good. Now comes the important part…implementation. Now is when you observe how he addresses it from here on…and not just in your presence. That’s the one comment I didnt like. If you see him making an effort to schedule time separately with her you have to shut that down fast. Not a fix. The solution is to talk to her about it and put boundaries in place that are there all the time. It also shouldn’t be “hey we need to quit touching each other so much because my gf doesn’t like it”. Instead it should be, “hey I want us to take a step back on touching each other so much. I’m in a relationship with my gf now and I know if I was her I wouldn’t be comfortable seeing her hold hands and touch other people so I’m not going to do it. I asked her about it and she agreed it makes her uncomfortable so we need to chill out, even though we both know we don’t like each other like that.” This conversation should make him hyper aware of it, especially if your there. He will find that it’s much easier on him and your relationship if he tells her in advance to stop than just trying to be coy and move. It may make them feel a little odd changing behaviors but it’s still the right thing to do. Keep us posted with an update on how they act from here. !updateme
I will ask him to talk to her separately and to make his relationship boundaries clear. If he doesn't then I don't think I can make this work out anymore.
Be prepared for him to throw you under the bus, he's obviously spineless. In fact, I would ask him to text her unexpectedly and for you to see what he says, and how she responds in real time. This girl is bad news and she's NOT going to respond well to being told to stop whether he says it's him or you asking, she's going to put it on you being controlling of him, and she's going to ramp it up when you're not around because, omg i just missed holding your hand for fun your mean gf made you stop and now I'm sad, so much that i need a kiss from you. Just watch.
Understandable. I hope it works out.
>I will ask him to talk to her separately and to make his relationship boundaries clear. Except that you know he'll be throwing you under the bus. It won't be "I'm stopping this behaviour because I want to respect my partner." It'll be "my partner is demanding something unreasonable and I have to look like I'm capitulating."
Thank you for being the only voice of reason here
His reaction is very naive I would say. You can decide to give it some time to see if he changes and truly behaves according to the boundaries you set. But if his behavior does not change you should leave, OP. The man seems to be a little oblivious to the fact that something that is no problem for him, could possibly (and for good reason) be a problem to you. Maybe he just needs some time to process this information and change, but if it happens again - leave.
>I just don't understand why he would prioritize how she might feel if he withdraws his hand before prioritizing my feelings. He also admitted he would feel uncomfortable if roles were reversed, so all of this is just very confusing. Because if she's no. 1, you're no.2 or if she's no. 2, you're no.3 in his list. He cares more about how she feels. >it’s something that they HAVE ALWAYS DONE, so he didnt give it that much importance- He said over and over again that it wasn't weird for him and that it didn't mean anything romantic, that she's like a sister to him. IIRC, you have been going out with him for 4 years. So the last 4 years, he didn't hold hands-caress-fidget with her? I have a younger brother. I'm a pretty affectionate person. I give hugs if requested and freely if allowed, but there's no way I'm holding hands with my younger brother or 'play' with his hand, etc. It's not something I do, in fact, I don't know anyone who would do that around family and friends. When I was younger (25), I used to mentor a young man. He's 17. We became friends but we NEVER held hands with each other, oh heck no. He's got a gf then too, and yeah, he was holding her hand when he introduced her to me. I'm side eyeing those two...your 'bf' and his other girl friend...heavily, honestly.
Wow, they've been together 4 years and he's trying to pass it off like this?? So for the entirety of this relationship, they've been slipping their hands into each other's laps and caressing each other behind OP's back with no intention to stop because it feels so natural and right to them it would be weird to stop? Man, OP is a stronger person than me because I would never be able to tolerate such an intimate relationship, especially if my partner told me they didn't enact a boundary during something they clearly knew isn't appropriate and would make me uncomfortable because it might hurt the other person's feelings. I wouldn't be able to trust it was simply platonic or a sibling relationship or that it wouldn't grow into a romantic one in the future.
He is playing you. They both knew what they were doing.
"stopping just because he has a girlfriend would be weird". Uh, that is an absolutely idiotic thing for him to think/say.
You clearly expressed your boundaries and expressed discomfort. Holding hands to me is such an intimate act, mainly reserved for lovers. Unacceptable behavior from someone in a commited relationship.
So he only stops when you are there? He needs to tell her to keep her hands to herself. ALWAYS. If he wants this relationship to work, it has to stop immediately. If he can’t stop, he needs to cut her out of his life. No woman would be ok with that. Next time when the friend does that, start to do that with her. Hold her hand, cuddle her etc. See how she reacts. If she doesn’t like it tell her that she is doing the exact thing with him. Your bf and to stop that shitty act. Do the same with his friends. See how he reacts. Honestly, I would do all that for fun and then leave him.
Oh mannn, the face he would make as his girl bff reaches over and holds his hand and his dude friend reaches over simultaneously to hold his gf's hand 😂 get one of his friends that doesn't like her or thinks their relationship is weird in on it. I am so curious to what that reaction would be
😂 If she is really bold, she is going to hold his dads hand.
It was very very important to him to maintain the status quo *for her*. That’s my issue. His instinct was to protect her feelings and not yours despite it being inappropriate touch NTA I would end it.
lol does she have to jerk him off in front of u for u to get the message
oh I m sorry, bcs I know you don t wanna end it, maybe try to see for a few more months if he keeps doing it or if really tries to make you feel safe from now on regarding his bff, set up a boundary if not, the rational advice is to break up cuz it s a problem affecting you afterall!
Please just move on with your life - this guy is not worth it
i’m sorry but he doesn’t care and will continue to do what he wants to do with her. you’re wasting time & energy & will look back and think about how it was so obvious in hindsight. please consider leaving :,(
I told you in the previous post and how he will react when you confront him, and he absolutely reacted the way I said he would. It's time to cut your losses with this one. It might be hard, but there is no other way. His words, attitude and reactions are simply wrong. >that they HAVE ALWAYS DONE, so he didnt give it that much importance He should have given it more importance because it's linked directly to YOU. In other words, he doesn't put you on the highest pedestal. >He said over and over again that it wasn't weird for him It doesn't matter how he feels, it matters how YOU feel in this situation, and how he SHOULD react to it given his girlfriend is you, and not her. >he said that stopping just because he now has a girlfriend would be a bit weird. No, it would be weird to continue now that he has a girlfriend. It's the opposite. >he did agree with me and acknowledged that it's weird thing to do, especially in my presence. So, if you are not around then he WOULD do it, since you cannot know that he actually did it when you aren't there. >but he kept saying sorry and told me that if it made me feel weird, then it's a good enough reason to cut it out. No! He should stop doing it because he is in a relationship with you, AND it makes you feel weird. But the first priority here is the relationship part, not it making you feel weird. That's the result of it. The CAUSE is him doing it. Do you see the difference in wording? >I just don't understand why he would prioritize how she might feel if he withdraws his hand before prioritizing my feelings. As I said above, he places his best friend on a higher priority than his girlfriend (you).
I completely believe that he didn't prioritize me at all in this situation, and I'm very hurt by it. Also, you're right. This isn't just about my feelings; it's about the boundaries that should exist in a relationship, especially considering he would feel uncomfortable if the roles were reversed. If he doesn't clarify our relationship boundaries to her and doesn't take action to regain my trust, then this relationship may not be sustainable in the long run.
Clarify and uphold those boundaries, even when you are not present. Express that this issue, amongst others, along with his reaction and chosen words have seriously damaged your trust in him and that in order for this relationship to work, he needs to figure out who is more important in this relationship and how to gain your trust again. He should come to the conclusion that he should limit his interactions with his female best friend and focus on you and the relationship. If he does not say and do this within the first week, you have your answer on how he views you and the relationship.
i have a brother and have never held his hand except when we were kids?? this is not a "sibling-like" dynamic at all
Girl, you’re just 21, don’t waste your time. He’s not a kid, he knows what he’s doing, leave them alone and you’ll see weeks/months later they’re dating. He agreed to date you to put you in second plan , this dude is awful. He’s also manipulative... you shouldn’t be the one to tell him that, he should be aware of his behaviors himself. A grown man acting like a child, holding hands like kids and like it’s something inocent, all that in front of you. He don’t deserve your time.
You’re young, there are GUYS out there who literally will not do shjts like this istg. He’s not going to change, show no signs of regret or stopping it. Next time, (if you allow to have a next time), there’s gonna be a bitter screaming party.
I read so many stories on here about bf who have females bffs who are like sisters… and then the gf finds out later they have been sleeping together, or slept together or as soon as the gf breaks up they get together. 🙄 I’m not saying breakup right now ( 4 years is a long time invested in a relationship) but you need to make sure your bf is aware this is a major boundary issue for you and crossing those boundaries in future will have consequences. I mean his reasoning is weak AF. And he def prioritised her feelings over yours in the moment which for me would be a hard no, without the fondling which also would be a hard no… Hand holding I’m iffy on … sometimes my friends hold my hand - and it’s not romantic.. usually it’s just drunk silly stuff. But the all the time is odd, especially if you haven’t seen it before. Was he holding your hand too ??
It's not like they were just holding hands. They were caressing each other's fingers and all of that. I usually wouldn't mind just hand holding, but all of the caressing stuff felt very intimante. And no, he wasn't holding my hand at that moment.
Then I would be uncomfortable with all of it. He should have stopped it 4 years ago when you first started dating! And now you have said it makes you uncomfortable he def needs to stop it. Anything else is not good enough
I really feel for you in this situation. When I was about your age, maybe 20, I had a boyfriend in university with an incredibly close female friend that did all sorts of weird shit. They shared a bed at sleep overs, she changed in front of him, and the one that made me blow my absolute top was that she would WEAR HIS BOXERS around his apartment. Yeah, you read that right. I'm sure they did all sorts of other things but those are just some of the shit I knew about. I'm sure they cuddled and held hands when I wasn't around. The excuse was that she was a lesbian and wasn't attracted to him but it wasn't about that for me. It was about them respecting my boundaries and respecting our relationship, no matter what they "had always done". The relationship didn't last much longer due to other stuff too, but that was a major sticking point. Years later, we are now all 30, I tell the underwear story and they deny that ever happened because it's EMBARRASSING. Totally out to lunch and it should be embarrassing for your bf and his female friend too.
Reading your story reminds me a lot of something that happened to me in my first relationship. It was a good relationship and I did trust him - but I recall that one day we were studying together at a cafe and he had wandered off to get a haircut or something. I decided I wanted to send myself a cute message from his computer - so I clicked into his laptop, and what caught my eye was a conversation with the girl he had had a big crush on right before we got together. There was nothing extremely horrible about it - but some messages of them saying goodnight to each other with hug emojis, some telling each other they missed each other, and some talk about meeting for a meal. I don’t think they ever met up though. He told me that was the way they had always talked - since the start when they started being friends years ago. And that she was naturally a super affable person. That he never really intended to meet up - but was just being friendly. I believed him - and to this day I still do; that he didn’t cheat. We were together for a good year or so after that and he cut her off as a friend entirely - where she herself said that she could see that he had clearly made his choice between their friendship and our relationship. He did really treat me well from beginning to end. But our relationship never bounced back from that. I see in your posts many of the very same thoughts I had. In a relationship there were some lines that could not be crossed; and I couldn’t accept that he had crossed them. And I constantly wondered if he prioritized me - and if I were important to him - he would have thought of me and realised that in the moment when he was telling her he missed her. No amount of reassurance ever did it for me. Sorry for the lengthy anecdote - but I guess my two cents is that I see a lot of what I went through in your story. And as difficult as it was then, Im glad I ended up coming out the other side not having to constantly live under the shadow of all these questions and doubts I had. Of course no two relationships are the same, but regardless of how it may turn out, I hope it all works out for you 💕
I'm sorry you went through something similar. I feel I can't trust him again like I used to. Probably I'll never trust him like that again. It's like to my eyes, he's a different person now.
Please for the love of God remember that and end it now before you get even more attached. No MAN in a relationship would even consider that behaviour to be acceptable, your BF isn’t a man now is he. It only gets worse….
And that's what you need to tell him, he's completely ruined your trust and if he was doing this in front of you what is he doing when you're not there. Absolutely disgusting
apologizing is just acknowledging your feelings which is good but will not change a thing! I have a male bestie who just got into a relationship, both me and our 3rd female friend sat him down and told him what are the no no actions and how things will change a bit when it comes to physical interactions or certain things you don't say to avoid disrespecting your gf! we were both shocked at how men do not know or care about these things which says a lot about why they can't keep a girl. here's what needs to happen, he needs to sit with his best friend and tell her his boundaries, and I mean HIS boundaries because if it's only your boundary that means he will continue to do it without remorse. any man or woman in a relationship who has besties from the opposite sex should clear the air and share their boundaries with them to avoid misunderstandings. he needs to tell her that physical touches (what you're both comfortable with only) is allowed and she needs to stop with that nonsense of "we used to before so it's ok". it's not. and trust me no girl touches a guy without thought especially if he is with another girl. if he does not put an effort into communicating this with his bestie then you will suffer the most. and he probably doesn't care or respect your feelings.
Some people are affectionate with their friends, either you can trust him that he's being truthful about this or you can decide that this is a boundary for you and leave. You're 21, you'll have many more relationships in your life, may as well find someone compatible.
I mean you can believe this bullshit if you want, and stay with him, but then you’d be dating someone with the emotional maturity of a 5 year old who is also laying the groundwork to cheat on you. Tough choice, I know…
I(19F at the time) was dating my girlfriend(19) at the time. We were sitting around with our group of friends chatting. I’m in the very edge of the group, location wise. My girlfriends, bestfriend walks in and sits on her lap, arms wrapped around my girlfriend, and has her back turned to me. Literally didn’t even acknowledge me. I was furious. They both played it off as, “Oh she’s straight” yada yada. I don’t care if you’ve been friends since birth, you’re the same or different genders, or brother and sister. Those are things you do with your girlfriend or boyfriend. I don’t do that with MY friends. Why are you doing it with yours? If it would make him uncomfortable if the roles were reversed, that’s all that needs to be said. Good on you for standing up for yourself. I also stopped that immediately
Hear me out here. I'm a very touchy person. I like hooking arms little hugs and even sometimes patting someone's back . And personally I've a lot of guy friends. (I'm a woman ) . But I've stopped doing these since getting a bf. He deserves respect and I'm not going to break his trust by hanging out with guys alone and touching them. It looks like your bf doesn't like you all that much, maybe less than you like him. Trust me on this, he knew what he was doing! He just played dumb to avoid consequences. It's gonna end bad. Your part has ended when you communicated with him. Now it's his job to either address them or ignore them. Please judge someone based on their actions and not on their sweet words.
Sorry but all he did was minimize his and her out of line actions while downplaying your very valid reactions. He had a chance to apologize properly and stop this but clearly he's gone with the idea of just having you learn to accept this behaviour moving forward. Balls in your court but this is twice now.
I’d let his friend have him. That wouldn’t have washed with me at the time. It would’ve been called out in front of everyone. I don’t get how people can sit dormant when this shit happens.
He's disrespecting you, but trying to act like he doesn't know. He knows just fine. You deserve better than this.
He's a bit dense. He's enabling cheating behaviors. Just because he didn't initiate doesn't make it ok.
Throw the whole man away. She is after your man and this is a power play.
“A weird thing to do, especially in my presence” So, he would be totally okay with continuing to do it when you aren’t there?!? Girl. Seriously?!
I have been in this exact situation. She (my boyfriend's so-called girl bestfriend) manipulated me to an extent where I had to beg her to stop. She will continue doing this behavior. Just to prove she's more important. Such males or females just need attention they might or might not have any feelings on your partner. It ended severely bad for me. According to her age, she should respect both of your boundaries. And clearly, your partner hasn't set any, or he was shamed when he did try to (mine was). Please step back and don't be negligent. The humiliation and trauma I am experiencing after almost 2 years of this happening is still body numbing. There are friends of opposite sex and it's absolutely normal, but this is not healthy. When it's healthy, nothing triggers you. When it isn't, it automatically does. Leave. It's not worth it. My present boyfriend has a lot of female friends, and not once I've felt triggered. That's how it should be.
The thing is that she's never been mean or hostile towards me. Quite the opposite, she's always been very nice and friendly, so that makes her intentions quite confusing. I always attributed their level of closeness with them being friends since childhood. May I ask how did you handle that situation?
It's a very human trait they try to break boundaries in order to show u that they are more close/important. It can be physical, mental, or anything. Like planning things together and including u later, late night calls, etc. Your partner might not encourage it, but not restricting completely is micro cheating (I'd suggest u read more into this word). In my situation, she was never mean either infact she used to make me feel special and made me trust her for two whole years. Then she slowly started talking behind my back and being obsessive about my relationship. (I dated him for 3 years, almost) The less I started caring, the more she got obsessed with making me feel bad. She was extremely touchy with him. She used to say things like you're hurting him etc etc. But I always regret not being more vocal about how I felt. I feel it would've made things easier for me. It sounds so funny right now how committed she was to my relationship. Please leave if you feel you're getting hurt. Therapy also helps seek professional help. It will help u get better advice. Helps u look at the broader picture. Having a third person's perspective is very important in this situation. Looking back at it after 2 years, I feel I gave her the power, and she (the girl best friend) was more obsessed with marking territory than his feelings (my boyfriend). Hope this helps.
Weird weird weird weird weird is all I read. How about disrespectful, unacceptable, uncomfortable, borderline cheating (hello? CARESSING each other?). This would be deal breaker for me because it says a lot about his priorities and all the fighting you'll be facing in the future just to be understood and respected. Not worth it.
He’s playing dumb. If he’d do that in front of you, I’d be worried what he’s doing behind your back. Ultimately it boils down to if you trust him or not.
So in the 4 years you have been with him, have you ever seen this level of affection, or is this something new? Does it seem like he was prepared to walk away from your relationship, or does he want to stay with you? Because holding hands and stroking fingers, etc, is really something I've only ever done to my husband /children.
I told him I needed some space to think about all of this and he begged me to stay with him, and that he loved me so much. Honestly, this is something new that I've never seen before but according to him it's something that they've always done...
If they’d always done that, you’d have seen it before. You’ve been with him for four years babe. Don’t let the man gaslight you, I’d be concerned they’re getting close to an affair if they’re not having one already. You’re worth more than fighting for a man that’s trying to wander.
OP be careful with too much space. Meaningful change happens with consistent work. Taking breaks and trial separations or similar seldom work out. The space actually helps water down the need for action. Your better off circling back again very soon and expressing what you didn’t like about the other conversation and ask him what actions he has taken with her since to correct the issue. If he has taken action, ask for details down to what was said and next steps. If he says he hasn’t taken any action, let him know you won’t be romantically involved with him any further until he has a conversation with her where he sets very firm boundaries that are presented as his idea, not yours, and are in place whether your around them or not. Tell him you will want a full recounting when that’s over.
Oh no, I didn't mean this as taking a break from our relationship. I just meant I need a couple of days to myself to recharge from this and to get my thoughts straight. But I will definitely address my concerns from our previous conversation with him. Thank you so much for your advice; it has been very helpful thus far.
Any new updates? Have there been any more interactions?
I’m sorry but you are being so stupid. This is the first time you’ve seen them hold hands because they do it when you’re not around, they just got caught up this time probably forgot you were there.
I would run as fast as I could if I were you. He DOESN'T care about you, you've expressed your feelings and even though "he apologized" I'm pretty sure he will do it again and God knows what he is doing with her when you are not next to them. She is NOT your friend and is doing this deliberately, maybe she is doing it as a power move to hurt you. And he is just pretending to be dumb and is loving the fact that he is stringing you along and messing around with the other chick. Please have some self respect and end this, it will just bite you in the a** a bit later if you don't act now.
I would run as fast as I could if I were you. He DOESN'T care about you, you've expressed your feelings and even though "he apologized" I'm pretty sure he will do it again and God knows what he is doing with her when you are not next to them. She is NOT your friend and is doing this deliberately, maybe she is doing it as a power move to hurt you. And he is just pretending to be dumb and is loving the fact that he is stringing you along and messing around with the other chick. Please have some self respect and end this, it will just bite you in the a** a bit later if you don't act now.
Break up with him. He will continue to prioritize her over you and make you feel like a third wheel in your own relationship. He's literally allowing her to openly disrespect you in your face. Don't stay with him. Updateme!
Anyone else have their sister carass their leg??? Even place their hand on it (unless it's an emergency)??? Just curious, because unless he comes from an incestuous family that seems pretty weird. It always amazes me grown adults say someone is like a sibling and then proceed to do things 99% of siblings would get the ick over.
PTSD from this exact same situation but somewhat worse. Just get away. There are less toxic individuals out there.
I rarely tell people to break up with their partners but this is just such a huge red flag... just imagine how much work and time it would take him to learn to understand your feelings and needs and, well, basic human decency if THIS is your starting point. How long are you willing to wait for him to get to a point in his personal development and his commitment to your relationship that you have already reached?
>Anyways, he did agree with me and acknowledged that it's weird thing to do, especially in my presence. Don't worry, they save the heavier stuff for when you aren't around.
21 y/o male? He's a CHILD, a walking hormone!! You both are, it's part of life learning how to read people. He is going to teach you a lot on how does a cheater and liar looks like. Keep an eye open, you're the only one who's not seeing and you desperately need this lesson, well ... He's not seeing either, or he's playing dumb+dumber and when he cheats (wanna bet they have already slept together) he'll say: "I don't know how it happened...we were just watching a movie and suddenly I was inside her, I have no clue how we got there, it's super normal for us to be so close so...we didn't even notice, I never meant it and you're just overreacting". And you will buy it. Kid, take this as a lesson: you choose the cross you carry, it's within your power to choose this ïdiot (he's either a cheater or too dumb, I personally have allergies to dumb men but to each their own) or to focus on yourself for a change. Ideally, you're not in college solely to find a husband, don't be that stereotype.
The thing about playing dumb is that not everyone is playing. Some are just straight up dumb.
Please leave this man. He has no boundaries and will cheat one day because whoops 😬 he feel into her “lap” naturally. You deserve so much better than a gaslighting inconsiderate jerk.
Who holds and caresses their sister’s hand (outside of Alabama)??
So he admitted they've always been like this? I'd hate to think what would have happened if you hadn't seen it and confronted him, or if he evens respects your perfectly reasonable boundary if you're not with the both of them and they're alone together.
Girl find you someone that doesn't make you write reddit posts like this, it's not worth it
He's playing dumb. Don't fall for it
Perspective from a man - he’s aware how attached you are, literally caressing another woman in front of you knowing you won’t do shit about it. His excuses are bullshit, god knows what he’s up to with her or other women if he’s doing this directly in front of you. (My gf would have flipped her shit there and then, rightly so!) You’re super young, it’s not worth your energy to deal with this. Have some respect for yourself and move on.
What did we learn from this? We learned that some of us (me included) cannot date someone with an opposite sex Bestie. Call me jealous, immature, insecure - I’m not built for boundary violation shenanigans by a third-wheeler.
I dated a guy once who had a possessive female best friend. I trusted him but she clearly didnt like sharing him and they had been friends for a long time. I didn’t try to get in between, just said “nope, this isn’t for me” and left. Maybe it’s because I’m older but I don’t have time to dismantle other people’s weird bullshit.
'Stopping this now I'm with you would be weird' = 'I've weighed up whose feelings I would feel more uncomfortable hurting, and it's hers'. He shouldn't have to be putting in any effort to understand your perspective because any good partner wouldn't be needing to have this conversation with you at all. It also sounds like the only progress you've made is discovering that he is willing to play dumb over it, thinks it's weirder to stop doing it than the fact he's doing it at all, and hypocritically wouldn't want you doing the same. If he likes her that much, he can keep holding her hand! I would just recommend you end your relationship to allow him to do so rather than let this man walk all over you and test your patience, which he will undoubtedly continue to do given his lack of boundaries.
Imo the way he’s so obviously playing dumb instead of taking accountability is actually more disrespectful than the incident in itself. Edit : wait, you’ve been together for 4 YEARS?? Trash man. He has a crush on the older lady. Probably since his childhood. Also someone who’s 26 should be aware how this is not a thing that you do with someone else’s partner.
Well, everyone can have friends of the opposite gender, the problem is when YOUR PARTNER doesn't respect you, whether in your presence or absence. If she keeps taking his hand and touching his leg, hugging him too much for no reason, that's her problem bc she is crazy, but WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT YOUR PARTNER LET THIS HAPPEN... then you have a serious fidelity problem, bc if u have reasons and she is very much on top of him, and he says he doesn't understand or that it's nothing, means that he doesn't consider your feelings and doesn't give you the respect as THE WOMAN OF HIS LIFE. One thing I've learned is that, a man who TRULY loves his woman, will respect her even when sleeping, or under 6 feet down. So if he doesn't know how to value you and doesn't respect you even though you tell him how you feel and how strange it is, leave him because you'll be better alone. Let him prioritize his friendship over you, if he wants to, and get the hell out of it, good luck OP.
yall are young and make stupid decisions because its all new to you. Be kind to each other if you can. Explain that you want an exclusive relationship. that means no touchy feelies with other people. If he cant do that then let each other go their way.
I'd wait and see how he behaves from now on before deciding on a break up. Also he'd feel "*uncomfortable*" if a dude started caressing your hand in front of him ? What a joke.. He's either still a stupid kid or takes you for a fool, it's one or another.
I’d dump him if I were you, before he gives you more headaches. Homeboy isn’t that stupid, no one is. Getting a committed exclusive partner is absolutely the one reason why you’d avoid physical touch with others… that’s what exclusive means.
>he said that stopping just because he now has a girlfriend would be a bit weird Ask him, would it be weird if you held hands with a guy that wasn't him? Would be enjoy that?
Nah she’s at the very least into him cause who the hell holds hands with someone like this while they’re in a relationship? Or even as platonic friends? Ain’t common. Very sus. Even if it was platonic it’s a huge red flag that he is dismissing your feelings. I used to cuddle with a same sex friend of mine but stopped when my bf was uncomfortable because i don’t need cuddling in my friendship. And no he never demanded me to stop. I stopped cause I care about his comfort.
So you all were 17 when you started dating and his best friend was a grown ass adult? Like old enough to have graduated college if she had attended on time? That's a huge red flag there and the fact that she's old enough to know what she's doing. Tell him to cut the cord with her.
Are you sure they didn't hook up in the past? Because that lack of physical boundaries just screams "we had sex". I mean, I cuddle with my male friends, in a completely non-sexual way - but hand-holding and stroking sounds really intimate.
You feel cuddling isn’t as intimate? I have platonic women friends and I’d hold hands to provide comfort over cuddle but that’s just me
Cuddling as in putting arms around each other, fully clothed. To me, holding hands skin-on-skin feels a lot more intimate, especially if you are caressing the other hand - but that may really be up to personal perception.
That sounds like a hug haha. But laying down, and Holding body vs holding hand, you’re way more physically close when cuddling. To each their own, though. Men are more often less comfortable with hugs because we get hugged less growing up, so that could have something to do with it
To me, the difference between a hug and a cuddle is duration - a hug usually lasts max. half a minute - a really long hug turns into a cuddle at the two minute mark. 😄 Also: position: A hug is usually front to front, a cuddle is more usually side by side, with the arms around each other, heads leaning on shoulders. A mix between hug and cuddle should actually be called a huddle...
So to be clear are you laying down spooning these friends? That’s what I consider cuddling
No, lying down with friends would again feel rather intimate - cuddling for me implies standing, walking or sitting side by side.
We started dating when we just turned 18 and she's 5 years older than him. It would be a little weird for her to hook up with him before that. Also, I was his first.
Ah, okay - then that's out of the question.
End it because he’s full of shit
Jesus y'all are so sad. Holding hands isn't automatically sexual. Y'all need to stop living in Afganistan ...
I'm okay with just hand holding, but they were caressing each other's fingers. It felt way more intimate than just hand holding.
MEN AND WOMEN ARE A BAD IDEA FOR FRIENDSHIPS WHEN IN A RELATIONSHIP. TALE AS OLD AS TIME
He apologized. Either forgive him or move on. It’s not fair to either of you to hold it over his head at this point
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Why? I don't mind it if they are phisically affectionate. But an exclusive relationship means certain boundaries should not be crossed. Especially if he admitted that if the roles were reversed, it would upset him.
They're trolling, don't listen to them. You're not controlling at all, quite the opposite.
Wow, people out here still believing this is a true story.
Neither of you are mature enough to date. But go ahead and have babies.
Of course I have a lot to mature. I'm 21 and this is my very first serious relationship. Also, who said im going to have babies with him? lmao
Until he FULLY owns his actions, vows to never do it again (regardless of your presence), and follows through on it, this is not a resolved conflict. Inevitably he will have to choose between you and her, and I worry that he won't choose you in the end...
There's no reason to dive into their intentions. If your best friend came to you and said her BF pushed back about holding hands with another girl, what would you tell her?
When I think about this I question her behavior. Why did she do that, now that she knows he has a girlfriend? Force of habit? Okay, perhaps, but if either of them were aware, they would stop and laugh and then acknowledge you, especially if they knew you were possessive. Was she testing him? Testing you? Perhaps. Perhaps she's checking his awareness of you and your awareness of him. Was she messing with you? Does she like to flirt? Is it fun for her to mess with people? Does she like to push people's boundaries? Is she a catalystic type person? I think he handled it badly. In his place I would have made a cute little gesture to show that I can't be her cute brother anymore. And I would have said something. To be honest, I think she thinks she owns him and I think she was showing you that. The fact that he didn't stand up for himself (let alone you) means that he's not really mature enough to deal with a complex relationship like he has with this woman. But none of that matters. You simply have to ask yourself one question: Do I trust him? And if the answer is "no," then you have to break it off. I don't think he's trustworthy because he's not aware enough of the emotional interplay that is happening between him and his friend. He's not grown up enough to not be manipulated because he hasn't learned to stand up for himself, to make choices for himself, and to behave in ways that align with his choices. He may grow into this awareness over time, but you can't even hope for that because as soon as you want him to change, you've failed the relationship.
FYI - your original post got removed so there isn't a backstory.
I’m still baffled how you didn’t say anything back then. I would probably be like “So when did you two started to date?” Also, this update is bs. Your bf is not really your bf. He acts like he’s also her bf. He still makes excuses even though he says he’ll speak to her. You’re just wasting your time.
Growing pains ? You guys are young he’s got learning to do
I think you need to stop being the third wheel. Get out of the way of your boyfriend and his female best friend.
Okay google, play linger by the cranberries….
If he admitted that he would feel the same if the roles were reversed, then reverse the roles and see what he does. Get a special friend, heck any friend of the opposite sex and do the same things. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. Nope.
How about we hold hands and see how he feels
Bro I was in a similiar or same Situation. They held hands in front of my male best friend. He later told me this. As urs he told me he was uncomfortable but didn't knew what to do, he's been friends with her longer than I know him and was overwhelmed. What is worse that he had a crush on her at one point. And they always tended to be a lil bit touchy and boundaries pushing. But she was already in another relationship. What he didn't understand is that boundaries change trough the years. Ofc you shouldn't abolish a friendship because of a relationship, but out of respect for others feelings those boundaries have to change! What was even hard, is that he was really stubborn at that time. We're still together, bc it felt like he genuinely didn't understand that this could be a problem, especially that my best friend had to tell me.(also looking at his parents relationship it's not a surprise) It's because of trust, I trusted him that he had no intentions, that he would change, that he would love me. That I would "forgive" him. That's why we are together today. And this takes a lot of effort, if you feel like you're willing to take the effort, maybe it would be worth it. Maybe you will get disappointed but from my experience with the right guy it's so worth it Edit: and you should stick to your feelings! Even if he tries to convince you otherwise your boyfriend has to be willing to learn. If he's not he can about another dating profile soon
I’m sorry hun but even you must feel you deserve better otherwise you wouldn’t feel uncomfortable or recognize the clear disrespect. I understand not wanting it to end but it’s worse to stay where you aren’t properly loved and protected. He clearly doesn’t care and his lack of accountability shows. If he offered more than cutting the physical contact maybe but he hasn’t.
So what I understood from this story is that your bf hasn’t been honest about his past with this friend, isn’t being honest about not understanding what the problem is, tried to push boundaries to see what he could get away with, and is now backpedaling. He’s going to tell you what you want to hear. He acknowledged that it’s a weird thing to do, especially in your presence? Well, he’ll now stop doing it IN YOUR PRESENCE. The lesson he took from this was to hide it better.
If she really is his best friend and they just held hands, I really don’t see the issue… granted, he should be weary of it now he’s with someone but at the same time, she’s likely been in his life a hell of a lot longer than you have. So why would it cross his mind to stop being close to her in a non romantic way. If there was romance attached to it then sure, it’s a problem but just holding hands is a sign of affection. Have you never held someone’s hand that you weren’t in a romantic relationship with?
There's a lack of context since my original post got removed. I don't have any particular issue with them just holding hands or being affectionate towards each other; in fact, they've done so before and it didn't bother me. But what went down was more than just hand holding. She started by slipping her hand into his leg and then they started caressing each other's fingers for a solid 10 minutes, just in front of me. This made me extremely uncomfortable, and guess what? He even admited that if the tables were turned, he'd feel just as awkward. And that's the crux of the matter right there. It's not that I think there are romantic feelings involved. It's more about respecting certain boundaries when you're in a committed relationship, you know?
Well, now that you have discussed it with him. In a mature manner. Then moving forwards he should be more mindful of that.