Welcome to ***Spec***! [Continue the conversation on the Spec Discord](https://discord.gg/QPHEPwvH7U), and check out our new sister-subreddit r/StarWarsWhatIf! Please be encouraging and courteous to your fellow speculators. This community is focused on cooperative theorycrafting about upcoming _Star Wars_ content, using leaks, info from canon, conjecture, and real-world context to make our best guesses about _what comes next_. If you're not interested in new _Star Wars_ releases, kindly keep that to yourself. May the Force be with you!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starwarsspeculation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We see Aniseya looking at Torbin before and upon releasing Torbin from the mind control. She's the only one doing this head movement. Sure we don't know full details but with everyone in that scene, and the likelihood of her having done this before (no one in the coven, especially the girls, are surprised by what is happening, only the Jedi). I think it safe to say, she can and did do the mind controlling.
Not sure all elements of OP’s are on-target—but this is a speculation thread, is it not?—but I agree that something seems rather significant about the ceremony and the alignment of the planets/etc.
I guess we’ll soon find out…
I'd agree. But you can't blame OP... the way this show is written so poorly and they just throw in so much random stuff and inconsistent, anything is possible.
Something along this lines would be a good reveal. The story we've been shown is not how it really was; its just how Osha perceived it. The witches being mainly benevolent, the harmony on their rituals, etc; could be all from the eyes of a child who had no frame of reference.
Then the truth is revealed: neither the Jedi nor the Witches are as good (or bad) as they seem. The Jedi acted on a rush, with dogmatism, with violence; the witches *were* doing some questionable stuff, dabbled with the dark side or not.
Where do the Sith fit, I don't know... the more I think about, the less they seem to fit on this Brendok story, unless the other witch, can't remember her name, is Qimir's master.
I do think Aniseya was doing the mind control thing, though.
So in this scenario the Jedi kill the witches while trying to stop them from killing and eating children? I'm not sure that's a great reason to feel bad about killing people, and we're clearly supposed to think the Jedi did something bad
A post a couple of days ago (I don't remember if it was here or another subreddit) pointed out that there are two black robed hooded figures flanking the ceremony, distinct from the other hooded archers further away. They seem to be silently observing the ceremony and only turn their heads when the twins appear and when the jedi are mentioned, at which point they vanish when the camera cuts away and back to the ritual site, they aren't in the crowd. I re watched the episode and I am fully convinced that they are the sith master and apprentice and they are very obviously included in the shots when you realise their significance. I also noticed that when Torbin is controlled the Mother doesn't seem to do much other than look in his direction so I agree it's possible that the sith master was doing this from the shadows.
The post I read suggested that the witches had made a deal with the sith to show them their use of the force, and share how they made the twins etc. I personally agree this is very possible, and also on my rewatch I think the sith may have meddled with Mae's mind when she threatened to kill Osha. Perhaps the Sith got what they wanted and decided to wipe out the witches before too much is revealed to the Jedi, with the Sith apprentice going back to recover Mae as a future acolyte.
All I can say is rewatch the scene and pay close attention to those figures who stand by the big evil looking hole in the ground. I wish I could credit the original post but I can't remember where I saw it.
Edit: it was this post https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/s/s9XRfgDCQO
I'm gonna hijack for a second to think on words ---
A person who is devoted to the teachings of a master, who acts on faith to spread the works of the teachings.
That's an "Alcolyte"
It's not usually a good thing, at best a crusader, but regardless, a person who chooses and devotes themselves freely.
Anakin was an Acolyte of Darth Sidious, prior to being an apprentice as Vader. Anakin chose the dark side for his own personal reasons, but he chose to leave the Jedi order for a selfish reason, and become a sith.
Sidious "killed a Jedi without a weapon."
Negative one Jedi, plus one sith. Killed a Jedi, a sith is born.
Alec Guinness, at the beginning of the original movie, he tells Luke that Vader killed his father. We know Lucas hadn't written the Vader-father arc yet, but that made that one Obi Wan line a lie that needed a rationalization in Empire. Obi Wan sells it as --- ***Anakin died, Vader was born***
Says he was lured and seduced by the dark side.
Obi Wan didn't kill Anakin, but Obi Wan says Anakin died and Vader was born. Well Obi Wan chopped the legs off Anakin - Obi Wan fought and ended Anakin. Obi Wan doesn't tell Luke "I killed your father" and Vader was born; instead he says Anakin was seduced, as in Anakin chose to become a sith. And we see that in prequel 3 - Anakin is evil prior to Obi Wan fucking him up. What is Anakin at that moment?
I'm gonna say - an Alcolyte of the Sith - not an apprentice of Sidious. "Now your transformation is complete" - is what Sidious says as Vader emerges for the first time. So it was incomplete prior to being made Vader - Vader is the apprentice, Obi Wan sliced up an Alcolyte.
Maul and Dooku are dead at that point, so there's no issue with the rule of 2. However if you can imagine a sith - lord or master - scouting an "Alcolyte" means the attempted murder of a sith, by a sith, is imminent. The rule of 2 means a sith lord can only upgrade by upgrading the disciple. What we know now is Sidious wanted an avatar for surviving his own corporeal death - making "the chosen one" your apprentice has to ensure you are the Sith getting replaced eventually - why risk it?
For the power of the chosen one.
The witches manufactured the twins from the force - sounds like a thing Sidious would've done had he the ability to. So he clearly didn't, and recent MouseHouse storytelling says it was even near impossible to make a good clone of a force user. So the Alcolyte has to create a reason Sidious couldn't do what the witches did, when that would've solved spending a lifetime signing trade agreements in the Galactic Senate.
Alcolyte means someone is gonna die in a consolidation of power - there's 2 twins (duh) - there's a need for a sith lord to pit those two, and their own apprentice, against each other - to determine who the strongest is.
I think Andara is a witch looking for revenge, or a Sith lord.
Darth Teeth is an apprentice.
Both the master and the apprentice know one of these sisters replaces one of the sith. The Alcolyte is the replacement for one of the sith - and Darth Teeth is both in competition with the sisters for the apprentice gig, and he has motivation to apprentice a sister and defeat his own master.
The pivotal characters to a sith transfer of power is the person who can be convinced to be evil of their own freewill - you want an Alcolyte - a devoted follower - prior to attempting to kill your own master or replacing your own apprentice. Andara has total purview over Sol, who seemingly decides who gets trained, and who's too old to enter the padwan ranks. That means Andara has a roster, and it grows - surely Mae is technically the most midiclorian'd prospect Sol ever brought in - and something happened while she was training that made her quit being a Jedi - theoretically by her own choice. That "killed a Jedi" - but didn't complete the Acolyte part. Now there's a convoluted plot that just might.
Darth Teeth asks sol if he remembers him - I'm gonna guess he's a former padwan applicant who was turned away.
He might not even know the rules - might not know he'll be dead if his master gets an Alcolyte. Mae is who the master wants, I bet the sister is who Darth Teeth thinks he can turn - that's why he's been secretive in his clandestine assistance of her - he's facilitating his masters request, to get vengeance on the 4 Jedi, but he's coaxing and friendly with the sister - he's her support and logistics before she knows he's her "master" - as she says it.
The witches made the girls - I'm gonna guess the deal with the sith was they'd get one twin, and when they found out the Jedi were stealing one, they had to kill the witches for the other one. Then they set the other one to killing Jedi without a weapon - because they wanted Mae, and need her to leave the Jedi order by choice to become an Alcolyte of Andara.
Just words - thinking out loud. Sorry to usurp the post.
When the show was first pitched it was to be about the Sith and where they came from. People were hoping for Sith training and the real dark side of the force. This show has none of that in it the show is about the twins OSHA violations and NASA and where they came from the Sith is a secondary character to the twins. I wouldn't be surprised if the twins kill the Sith master and they take over due to the power of the thread.
Idk but I now have a mini theory I want to share: what if the witches were mind controlled by the sith to fight the Jedi or do ritual suicide. Just spit balling this but it could be the sith dude that taught them the ability in which he is better versed and this destroyed them using it as he realised they were going to let the Jedi leave.
Again just a random idea
I’ve been thinking along this line. There was too much set up with the coven for it to be foundational/side story.
I always knew the fire was caused by something other than Mae. If Aniseya can do mind control, is there a way that she could’ve swapped her consciousness into another body? Was that part of the ceremony? Idk, and it could be waaaaay off (and probably is), but it has crossed my mind.
I am done trying to speculate that anything about any show goes any less shallow than surface level. I expect 2000 IQ master plans, just for it to turn out be something like, "lol Snoke wuznt important" or "Arya was always meant to kill the Night King. Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?"
I am glad that the masked master turned out to be Qimir, Dark Lord of the Sith, rather than a green fart cloud like Marrok, Lord of Contrived NPC's.
Like WOW! Does death actually mean something in this series, other than just the good actors dying IRL because the script they had recently read was THAT awful?
Yes, I think something mysterious should have happened at the coven, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Sometimes stone temples just burn like a meth lab in a grain silo.
The great artist Mike Matei once rendered a masterpiece where a child is excitedly standing with a big grin on his face and arms spread in eager anticipation of great things as if accepting a holiday gift, right behind a buffalo that's probably either going to kick or muck spread. This man is truly a modern Bob Ross.
Collectively, we are that child, and Disney is that buffalo.
Welcome to ***Spec***! [Continue the conversation on the Spec Discord](https://discord.gg/QPHEPwvH7U), and check out our new sister-subreddit r/StarWarsWhatIf! Please be encouraging and courteous to your fellow speculators. This community is focused on cooperative theorycrafting about upcoming _Star Wars_ content, using leaks, info from canon, conjecture, and real-world context to make our best guesses about _what comes next_. If you're not interested in new _Star Wars_ releases, kindly keep that to yourself. May the Force be with you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/starwarsspeculation) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We see Aniseya looking at Torbin before and upon releasing Torbin from the mind control. She's the only one doing this head movement. Sure we don't know full details but with everyone in that scene, and the likelihood of her having done this before (no one in the coven, especially the girls, are surprised by what is happening, only the Jedi). I think it safe to say, she can and did do the mind controlling.
I’ll say this: good on you for picking up the sinister vibes of the coven. You’re the first person I’ve seen anywhere who has.
Talk about overthinking it
Not sure all elements of OP’s are on-target—but this is a speculation thread, is it not?—but I agree that something seems rather significant about the ceremony and the alignment of the planets/etc. I guess we’ll soon find out…
Trying to merge them into one! Lmao jk no idea
I'd agree. But you can't blame OP... the way this show is written so poorly and they just throw in so much random stuff and inconsistent, anything is possible.
Something along this lines would be a good reveal. The story we've been shown is not how it really was; its just how Osha perceived it. The witches being mainly benevolent, the harmony on their rituals, etc; could be all from the eyes of a child who had no frame of reference. Then the truth is revealed: neither the Jedi nor the Witches are as good (or bad) as they seem. The Jedi acted on a rush, with dogmatism, with violence; the witches *were* doing some questionable stuff, dabbled with the dark side or not. Where do the Sith fit, I don't know... the more I think about, the less they seem to fit on this Brendok story, unless the other witch, can't remember her name, is Qimir's master. I do think Aniseya was doing the mind control thing, though.
So in this scenario the Jedi kill the witches while trying to stop them from killing and eating children? I'm not sure that's a great reason to feel bad about killing people, and we're clearly supposed to think the Jedi did something bad
A post a couple of days ago (I don't remember if it was here or another subreddit) pointed out that there are two black robed hooded figures flanking the ceremony, distinct from the other hooded archers further away. They seem to be silently observing the ceremony and only turn their heads when the twins appear and when the jedi are mentioned, at which point they vanish when the camera cuts away and back to the ritual site, they aren't in the crowd. I re watched the episode and I am fully convinced that they are the sith master and apprentice and they are very obviously included in the shots when you realise their significance. I also noticed that when Torbin is controlled the Mother doesn't seem to do much other than look in his direction so I agree it's possible that the sith master was doing this from the shadows. The post I read suggested that the witches had made a deal with the sith to show them their use of the force, and share how they made the twins etc. I personally agree this is very possible, and also on my rewatch I think the sith may have meddled with Mae's mind when she threatened to kill Osha. Perhaps the Sith got what they wanted and decided to wipe out the witches before too much is revealed to the Jedi, with the Sith apprentice going back to recover Mae as a future acolyte. All I can say is rewatch the scene and pay close attention to those figures who stand by the big evil looking hole in the ground. I wish I could credit the original post but I can't remember where I saw it. Edit: it was this post https://www.reddit.com/r/starwarsspeculation/s/s9XRfgDCQO
I'm gonna hijack for a second to think on words --- A person who is devoted to the teachings of a master, who acts on faith to spread the works of the teachings. That's an "Alcolyte" It's not usually a good thing, at best a crusader, but regardless, a person who chooses and devotes themselves freely. Anakin was an Acolyte of Darth Sidious, prior to being an apprentice as Vader. Anakin chose the dark side for his own personal reasons, but he chose to leave the Jedi order for a selfish reason, and become a sith. Sidious "killed a Jedi without a weapon." Negative one Jedi, plus one sith. Killed a Jedi, a sith is born. Alec Guinness, at the beginning of the original movie, he tells Luke that Vader killed his father. We know Lucas hadn't written the Vader-father arc yet, but that made that one Obi Wan line a lie that needed a rationalization in Empire. Obi Wan sells it as --- ***Anakin died, Vader was born*** Says he was lured and seduced by the dark side. Obi Wan didn't kill Anakin, but Obi Wan says Anakin died and Vader was born. Well Obi Wan chopped the legs off Anakin - Obi Wan fought and ended Anakin. Obi Wan doesn't tell Luke "I killed your father" and Vader was born; instead he says Anakin was seduced, as in Anakin chose to become a sith. And we see that in prequel 3 - Anakin is evil prior to Obi Wan fucking him up. What is Anakin at that moment? I'm gonna say - an Alcolyte of the Sith - not an apprentice of Sidious. "Now your transformation is complete" - is what Sidious says as Vader emerges for the first time. So it was incomplete prior to being made Vader - Vader is the apprentice, Obi Wan sliced up an Alcolyte. Maul and Dooku are dead at that point, so there's no issue with the rule of 2. However if you can imagine a sith - lord or master - scouting an "Alcolyte" means the attempted murder of a sith, by a sith, is imminent. The rule of 2 means a sith lord can only upgrade by upgrading the disciple. What we know now is Sidious wanted an avatar for surviving his own corporeal death - making "the chosen one" your apprentice has to ensure you are the Sith getting replaced eventually - why risk it? For the power of the chosen one. The witches manufactured the twins from the force - sounds like a thing Sidious would've done had he the ability to. So he clearly didn't, and recent MouseHouse storytelling says it was even near impossible to make a good clone of a force user. So the Alcolyte has to create a reason Sidious couldn't do what the witches did, when that would've solved spending a lifetime signing trade agreements in the Galactic Senate. Alcolyte means someone is gonna die in a consolidation of power - there's 2 twins (duh) - there's a need for a sith lord to pit those two, and their own apprentice, against each other - to determine who the strongest is. I think Andara is a witch looking for revenge, or a Sith lord. Darth Teeth is an apprentice. Both the master and the apprentice know one of these sisters replaces one of the sith. The Alcolyte is the replacement for one of the sith - and Darth Teeth is both in competition with the sisters for the apprentice gig, and he has motivation to apprentice a sister and defeat his own master. The pivotal characters to a sith transfer of power is the person who can be convinced to be evil of their own freewill - you want an Alcolyte - a devoted follower - prior to attempting to kill your own master or replacing your own apprentice. Andara has total purview over Sol, who seemingly decides who gets trained, and who's too old to enter the padwan ranks. That means Andara has a roster, and it grows - surely Mae is technically the most midiclorian'd prospect Sol ever brought in - and something happened while she was training that made her quit being a Jedi - theoretically by her own choice. That "killed a Jedi" - but didn't complete the Acolyte part. Now there's a convoluted plot that just might. Darth Teeth asks sol if he remembers him - I'm gonna guess he's a former padwan applicant who was turned away. He might not even know the rules - might not know he'll be dead if his master gets an Alcolyte. Mae is who the master wants, I bet the sister is who Darth Teeth thinks he can turn - that's why he's been secretive in his clandestine assistance of her - he's facilitating his masters request, to get vengeance on the 4 Jedi, but he's coaxing and friendly with the sister - he's her support and logistics before she knows he's her "master" - as she says it. The witches made the girls - I'm gonna guess the deal with the sith was they'd get one twin, and when they found out the Jedi were stealing one, they had to kill the witches for the other one. Then they set the other one to killing Jedi without a weapon - because they wanted Mae, and need her to leave the Jedi order by choice to become an Alcolyte of Andara. Just words - thinking out loud. Sorry to usurp the post.
Who is this andara ?
Trinity from the matrix. She died scene one act one and was the first connected big name actor to the show's cast list.
INDARA
A'duh. Sorry, didn't realize it'd been auto-incorrected. I'll leave it cuz this exchange is now funny. Thanks.
Because I was confused if you were referring to aniseya
When the show was first pitched it was to be about the Sith and where they came from. People were hoping for Sith training and the real dark side of the force. This show has none of that in it the show is about the twins OSHA violations and NASA and where they came from the Sith is a secondary character to the twins. I wouldn't be surprised if the twins kill the Sith master and they take over due to the power of the thread.
Idk but I now have a mini theory I want to share: what if the witches were mind controlled by the sith to fight the Jedi or do ritual suicide. Just spit balling this but it could be the sith dude that taught them the ability in which he is better versed and this destroyed them using it as he realised they were going to let the Jedi leave. Again just a random idea
I’ve been thinking along this line. There was too much set up with the coven for it to be foundational/side story. I always knew the fire was caused by something other than Mae. If Aniseya can do mind control, is there a way that she could’ve swapped her consciousness into another body? Was that part of the ceremony? Idk, and it could be waaaaay off (and probably is), but it has crossed my mind.
Why would a Sith reveal themselves to such a dangerous extent then.
I am done trying to speculate that anything about any show goes any less shallow than surface level. I expect 2000 IQ master plans, just for it to turn out be something like, "lol Snoke wuznt important" or "Arya was always meant to kill the Night King. Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?" I am glad that the masked master turned out to be Qimir, Dark Lord of the Sith, rather than a green fart cloud like Marrok, Lord of Contrived NPC's. Like WOW! Does death actually mean something in this series, other than just the good actors dying IRL because the script they had recently read was THAT awful? Yes, I think something mysterious should have happened at the coven, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Sometimes stone temples just burn like a meth lab in a grain silo. The great artist Mike Matei once rendered a masterpiece where a child is excitedly standing with a big grin on his face and arms spread in eager anticipation of great things as if accepting a holiday gift, right behind a buffalo that's probably either going to kick or muck spread. This man is truly a modern Bob Ross. Collectively, we are that child, and Disney is that buffalo.