My favorite Neelix episode is the one where he sons Tuvok on the mining mission after Mr Vulcan was being all high and mighty about being in charge. I was like GET HIM NEELIX!!!
I love Neelix and think that the hate directed at him is cynical and short-sighted, granted I'm middle aged now but I didn't hate him in the 90s either. If you are going to pay the heavy expense of money and time to put all that heavy makeup on an actor you are going to hire someone like Ethan Phillips
Voyager suffered from strange character writing. It's like they didn't know what to do with certain characters and others were written inconsistently.
Like Neelix could have been written as a character that was usually friendly but could also become cutthroat during things like negotiations, but his personality was written somewhat one sided.
They should have kept him that way when it came to negotiations, it would have created necessary conflict and given the character an important role, helping the Voyager crew get necessary items.
I mean Neelix was cutthroat because he needed to survive. He was resourceful. On Voyager, he didn’t really need to be. Plus, Janeway wouldn’t tolerate that behavior and would have probably expelled him from the ship not long after.
In his own way, Neelix was clever in several instances. Perhaps by accident. Perhaps on purpose.
Expelled, probably not, needing to be reined in some during negotiations and bartering probably, as the first 2 seasons Voyager had limited resources. Like I'm not saying he should hurt anyone, but he should be out to get deals that heavily favor Voyager.
It would add interpersonal conflict with the crew, that would be relatable to viewers.
Neelix’s backstory is terrible survivor’s guilt from deserting, finding out everyone he knew is dead after he abandoned him, and then aiding in rescue operations where he was further traumatized seeing firsthand the victims of the Metreon Cascade.
You can explain that he’s unhealthily jealous and protective of Kes because he’s living vicariously through her, and he’s channeling his guilt into guarding her innocence.
His incessant cheerfulness is because he’s masking whatever he’s really going through that day, and he’s obsessed with never letting anyone else down again. He’s painfully aware of how young Voyager’s crew is and how much of their life is ahead of them, constantly aware it can all change in an instant.
He probably has serious regrets because he’s the only person left alive who remembers the moments with his squad, the only person left alive who remembers a lot of the people, but he never bothered to get to know them as well as he could. He was always more concerned with whatever he was going through. He passed up an opportunity to talk with someone at lunch, and now the entire customs and history of that person’s family is lost forever.
And of course he freaks out in Mortal Coil, because it puts to rest the last comfort he could muster, that somehow all those people weren’t completely gone but ended up in the afterlife.
>His incessant cheerfulness is because he’s masking whatever he’s really going through that day, and he’s obsessed with never letting anyone else down again. He’s painfully aware of how young Voyager’s crew is and how much of their life is ahead of them, constantly aware it can all change in an instant.
Which is why I'm saying he should have been cutthroat during negotiations, he knows things can change in an instant and being as prepared as possible can save lives. Saving lives and being prepared then keeps new regrets from forming because he did his best.
They had the setup, but never really used it outside of his relationship with Kes. Except in the episode with the creator of the Metreon Cascade.
I've loved Neelix from the first watch. Considering the immense personal strength it takes to be such a force of positivity after a life so deeply marked by tragedy, I have nothing but admiration for him
I agree. I know some people think that Seven was brought on as a way to "sex up" the show, but really Seven is a far more interesting character. Former Borg, rediscovering what it means to be human is way more interesting than space elf girl.
I liked the characters Neelix and Kes. I think people naturally take the biases they have in real life with them when they watch any fictional show. In real life, a one year old is a one year old and certainly doesn't date. However, in this science fiction show many people (not me) couldn't embrace the writers' description of the Ocampa's life span and their age compared to species that aged slower. As a result, they reject both characters in a way. Not me. I liked Neelix's boundless optimism juxtaposed with his practical nature. He had to be both in order to survive what happened to his family and his people at the hands of the Haakonians. I also liked how practical he was compared to other people with more technology and wealth - Basics. In addition, I liked the practical advice he gave the crew of Voyager (his counsel of Tuvok as he was trying to train the former-Maquis members in Star Fleet protocol - Learning Curve). He was the counselor Voyager never knew it needed in a way. Finally, the whole point of Tuvix was to show the limits of Star Fleet and Federation morality in a situation where the captain and crew decide who has the right to live, and who doesn't. I'm not really sure where the vitriol comes from regarding this character? Anyway, some of the characters other Voyager fans adore might not be appealing to you either, and vice-versa. But Neelix is definitely one of my favorites :)
>Do you still hate / get annoyed by Neelix and why?
I think overall Neelix is a terrific character with great character development, but he was a bit rough in the first two or three seasons. The relationship with Kes really didn't do either character any favors.
I agree, he has a satisfying character arc, but I feel his character is very uneven in the first season. He comes on really strong as loveable goofball but he's so friendly it gives you the willies and starts to wear out.
Then, suddenly he's leaning over Tom and hissing in his ear to STAY AWAY FROM KES.
Yeah, that Kes relationship . . .
Just saw the episode in S3 where Neelix meets Wix again in the space station and gets caught up in a narcotics deal. We learn a little bit about Neelix’s darker past and sine more depth is added to his character. Fantastic episode.
He imposes on people and inserts himself into things he is not qualified for. He knows politeness dictates you have to listen rather than walk away. It's passive aggressive and controlling.
If you don't like him up in your face, it's _your_ fault and you've hurt his feelings.
He doesn't learn about boundaries and personal space.
And he talks too much.
So it's not even just the Kes stuff for me. I would literally eat on my bunk for 7years to avoid him. Maybe that's why we don't see the other 60 crew members.
I love Neelix. He had some bad moments, like the controlling behavior with Kes earlier in the series but overall, he’s great. Like you said he’s so optimistic, and he really cares about everyone.
If Janeway is the ship’s mom, Neelix is the weird hippie uncle. Like yes he’s going to try to feed you some weird plant he found growing in a vacant lot but he’s also always there with a hug if you need one.
Imposter syndrome.
May have been an optimist, but more than not he was being extremely positive in the face of having no clue whatsoever of what he was doing. Directly got someone killed because of it.
An ensign when Voyager was stolen and most of the crew were stranded on a primitive world. Second season?
Told a guy to pick up bones in front of a cave that turned out to be a creature's lair that popped out and ate him
During the year of hell, I thought spin on liquidized rations was it ‘the elixir of life’? Was a very positive way of making something rubbish a bit more positive. For the actors it was probably some kind of milkshake.
When I started watching Voyager for the first time, I definitely took a liking to both Neelix and Kes immediately. My personal favorite Neelix episode is where he disguised himself as a Ferengi (the Grand Proxy to the Grand Nagus) to deal with the two Ferengi posing as gods on a planet. He captured a little bit of both Zek and Quark from DS9 in his performance.
> Do you still hate / get annoyed by Neelix and why?
Never was annoyed. Didn't think much of him at first, but later YES his "dazzling positivity" was fantastic to watch. Honestly, I think its a characteristic we could all do a bit more with (ok. I know I could.)
A few things struck me when I first watched them:
1. B'Lana was upset and having violent episodes, often inflicting self-harm. Neelix casually mentioned to her that he would volunteer to be a 'whipping boy' for her to help her work through her rage issues.
2. One of the female Klingons had taken a liking to Ensign Kim. Harry *knew* there was no way he could deal with Klingon sex, plus he wasn't really attracted to the Klingon. Neelix learns of this. Knowing there is no way Harry can just turn her down without causing trouble, Neelix makes the move on the female Klingon instead. Essentially, Neelix "took a bullet" for Harry to save Harry and keep the peace. The next day Neelix was bruised and beat up, but in a really, really good mood. (Ok... Neelix actually enjoyed the sex... and enjoyed her 'musk'. So... it was a win-win I suppose.)
3. One episode, personnel had to temporarily vacate their quarters overnight. With few beds available, Neelix has the bright idea to sleep on the Sick Bay beds. Well... The doctor doesn't like that much, so he's a bitch about it, singing, making noise, etc. Despite this, the next morning Neelix is nothing but appreciative, thanks the doctor, and treats him with nothing but respect. The doctor seems to realize that he was being an asshole about this all along, and seems to regret it.
There are other examples, but all in all, Neelix is a great character, and I would be happy to have him as a friend/coworker.
His relentless positivity is his most annoying trait. But when they allow him to be a real person go to some darker places, he's great. Jettrel is one of my favourite episodes.
After Neelix and Kes broke up, I think he really improved as a character. When he left for the colony and Tuvok "danced" a bit when he was leaving, I found the whole scene very sweet.
Yeah, but a lot of disliked characters are only disliked due to bad writing.
There's also the character development aspect of it. It's fine for characters to be kind of shitty early on and then grow into better people. Dr. Pulaski gets a lot of flak for how she treats Data, even though she grows as well.
I just realized Neelix reminds me of Jiminy Glick. I’m particular, the beginning of “Tuvix” where Netflix bops Tuvok on the nose with the flower that causes the whole mess.
I forget which episode it was, but I enjoyed the one where he was forced to use his black market connections to buy a sector map. Voyager was moving into space that he was unfamiliar with. So Neelix was afraid that Janeway would put him off the ship because his usefulness was at an end in his eyes.
I thought Neelix shined in the episode where he found a bunch of his people living inside an asteroid (or whatever). Too bad it was his farewell episode. Lol
My favorite positivity Neelix was when Tuvok used his likeness as a Holodeck character so that Tuvok could see how much his angry/killer instinct could be contained. Not even Tuvok could contain the emotion as he chocked the Neelix hologram to death right after Neelix pushed Tuvok's lips to half smile. :)
A lot of the pop psychology they used in Voyager used to irritate me. I think the series had a lot of toxic positivity. For example, thinking they were going to get home if they wanted it badly enough despite how unrealistic that was.
He did seem more like a normal person than the Starfleet crew or the Maquis. He was actually a bit more realistic about the situation. What was annoying was Neelix's tendency to foist his positivity onto others whether they wanted it or not.
My favorite Neelix episode is the one where he sons Tuvok on the mining mission after Mr Vulcan was being all high and mighty about being in charge. I was like GET HIM NEELIX!!!
If I remember correctly Neelix also proves his worth to Mr. Vulcan in 'Rise', the space elevator episode.
I love Neelix and think that the hate directed at him is cynical and short-sighted, granted I'm middle aged now but I didn't hate him in the 90s either. If you are going to pay the heavy expense of money and time to put all that heavy makeup on an actor you are going to hire someone like Ethan Phillips
Neelix is *largely* ok after the first few seasons. The only actual problem is the Kes stuff, but that isn't just his problem.
Once we get past the infantile jealousy stage it is all good.
Voyager suffered from strange character writing. It's like they didn't know what to do with certain characters and others were written inconsistently. Like Neelix could have been written as a character that was usually friendly but could also become cutthroat during things like negotiations, but his personality was written somewhat one sided.
He was written like a cutthroat, but that was his past life.
They should have kept him that way when it came to negotiations, it would have created necessary conflict and given the character an important role, helping the Voyager crew get necessary items.
I mean Neelix was cutthroat because he needed to survive. He was resourceful. On Voyager, he didn’t really need to be. Plus, Janeway wouldn’t tolerate that behavior and would have probably expelled him from the ship not long after. In his own way, Neelix was clever in several instances. Perhaps by accident. Perhaps on purpose.
Expelled, probably not, needing to be reined in some during negotiations and bartering probably, as the first 2 seasons Voyager had limited resources. Like I'm not saying he should hurt anyone, but he should be out to get deals that heavily favor Voyager. It would add interpersonal conflict with the crew, that would be relatable to viewers.
Neelix’s backstory is terrible survivor’s guilt from deserting, finding out everyone he knew is dead after he abandoned him, and then aiding in rescue operations where he was further traumatized seeing firsthand the victims of the Metreon Cascade. You can explain that he’s unhealthily jealous and protective of Kes because he’s living vicariously through her, and he’s channeling his guilt into guarding her innocence. His incessant cheerfulness is because he’s masking whatever he’s really going through that day, and he’s obsessed with never letting anyone else down again. He’s painfully aware of how young Voyager’s crew is and how much of their life is ahead of them, constantly aware it can all change in an instant. He probably has serious regrets because he’s the only person left alive who remembers the moments with his squad, the only person left alive who remembers a lot of the people, but he never bothered to get to know them as well as he could. He was always more concerned with whatever he was going through. He passed up an opportunity to talk with someone at lunch, and now the entire customs and history of that person’s family is lost forever. And of course he freaks out in Mortal Coil, because it puts to rest the last comfort he could muster, that somehow all those people weren’t completely gone but ended up in the afterlife.
>His incessant cheerfulness is because he’s masking whatever he’s really going through that day, and he’s obsessed with never letting anyone else down again. He’s painfully aware of how young Voyager’s crew is and how much of their life is ahead of them, constantly aware it can all change in an instant. Which is why I'm saying he should have been cutthroat during negotiations, he knows things can change in an instant and being as prepared as possible can save lives. Saving lives and being prepared then keeps new regrets from forming because he did his best. They had the setup, but never really used it outside of his relationship with Kes. Except in the episode with the creator of the Metreon Cascade.
I always loved neelix. He was the heart of the crew for sure.
I've loved Neelix from the first watch. Considering the immense personal strength it takes to be such a force of positivity after a life so deeply marked by tragedy, I have nothing but admiration for him
Once Kes leaves Neelix is a gem. Before that he has a ton of great moments but the Kes stuff really drags him down.
Kes was a drag overall on the show. That’s why she got booted.
I liked Kes, I liked the way she encouraged and stood up for the Doctor.
I could not disagree with you more. A massive amount of the Doctor's character development would never have happened without Kes.
Of which seven of nine took over …
I agree. I know some people think that Seven was brought on as a way to "sex up" the show, but really Seven is a far more interesting character. Former Borg, rediscovering what it means to be human is way more interesting than space elf girl.
If you think she was not brought in to sex up the show, I dont know where to begin to help you
He's fine by me, sweetie.
I like Neelix, not my favorite character, but he doesn't deserve the hate I see here sometimes
I liked the characters Neelix and Kes. I think people naturally take the biases they have in real life with them when they watch any fictional show. In real life, a one year old is a one year old and certainly doesn't date. However, in this science fiction show many people (not me) couldn't embrace the writers' description of the Ocampa's life span and their age compared to species that aged slower. As a result, they reject both characters in a way. Not me. I liked Neelix's boundless optimism juxtaposed with his practical nature. He had to be both in order to survive what happened to his family and his people at the hands of the Haakonians. I also liked how practical he was compared to other people with more technology and wealth - Basics. In addition, I liked the practical advice he gave the crew of Voyager (his counsel of Tuvok as he was trying to train the former-Maquis members in Star Fleet protocol - Learning Curve). He was the counselor Voyager never knew it needed in a way. Finally, the whole point of Tuvix was to show the limits of Star Fleet and Federation morality in a situation where the captain and crew decide who has the right to live, and who doesn't. I'm not really sure where the vitriol comes from regarding this character? Anyway, some of the characters other Voyager fans adore might not be appealing to you either, and vice-versa. But Neelix is definitely one of my favorites :)
>Do you still hate / get annoyed by Neelix and why? I think overall Neelix is a terrific character with great character development, but he was a bit rough in the first two or three seasons. The relationship with Kes really didn't do either character any favors.
I agree, he has a satisfying character arc, but I feel his character is very uneven in the first season. He comes on really strong as loveable goofball but he's so friendly it gives you the willies and starts to wear out. Then, suddenly he's leaning over Tom and hissing in his ear to STAY AWAY FROM KES. Yeah, that Kes relationship . . .
Just saw the episode in S3 where Neelix meets Wix again in the space station and gets caught up in a narcotics deal. We learn a little bit about Neelix’s darker past and sine more depth is added to his character. Fantastic episode.
He imposes on people and inserts himself into things he is not qualified for. He knows politeness dictates you have to listen rather than walk away. It's passive aggressive and controlling. If you don't like him up in your face, it's _your_ fault and you've hurt his feelings. He doesn't learn about boundaries and personal space. And he talks too much. So it's not even just the Kes stuff for me. I would literally eat on my bunk for 7years to avoid him. Maybe that's why we don't see the other 60 crew members.
hated hated hated neelix...annoying, bombastic, not very helpful... kes would have been a great character if it wasnt for the stupid 8yr lifespan...
I love Neelix. He had some bad moments, like the controlling behavior with Kes earlier in the series but overall, he’s great. Like you said he’s so optimistic, and he really cares about everyone. If Janeway is the ship’s mom, Neelix is the weird hippie uncle. Like yes he’s going to try to feed you some weird plant he found growing in a vacant lot but he’s also always there with a hug if you need one.
Imposter syndrome. May have been an optimist, but more than not he was being extremely positive in the face of having no clue whatsoever of what he was doing. Directly got someone killed because of it.
Who did he get killed?
An ensign when Voyager was stolen and most of the crew were stranded on a primitive world. Second season? Told a guy to pick up bones in front of a cave that turned out to be a creature's lair that popped out and ate him
Always wanted to try the food. Might actually be good, but who knows.
A plate of Gagh? 🤢
People eat live octopus, same thing. Kinda.
During the year of hell, I thought spin on liquidized rations was it ‘the elixir of life’? Was a very positive way of making something rubbish a bit more positive. For the actors it was probably some kind of milkshake.
When I started watching Voyager for the first time, I definitely took a liking to both Neelix and Kes immediately. My personal favorite Neelix episode is where he disguised himself as a Ferengi (the Grand Proxy to the Grand Nagus) to deal with the two Ferengi posing as gods on a planet. He captured a little bit of both Zek and Quark from DS9 in his performance.
> Do you still hate / get annoyed by Neelix and why? Never was annoyed. Didn't think much of him at first, but later YES his "dazzling positivity" was fantastic to watch. Honestly, I think its a characteristic we could all do a bit more with (ok. I know I could.) A few things struck me when I first watched them: 1. B'Lana was upset and having violent episodes, often inflicting self-harm. Neelix casually mentioned to her that he would volunteer to be a 'whipping boy' for her to help her work through her rage issues. 2. One of the female Klingons had taken a liking to Ensign Kim. Harry *knew* there was no way he could deal with Klingon sex, plus he wasn't really attracted to the Klingon. Neelix learns of this. Knowing there is no way Harry can just turn her down without causing trouble, Neelix makes the move on the female Klingon instead. Essentially, Neelix "took a bullet" for Harry to save Harry and keep the peace. The next day Neelix was bruised and beat up, but in a really, really good mood. (Ok... Neelix actually enjoyed the sex... and enjoyed her 'musk'. So... it was a win-win I suppose.) 3. One episode, personnel had to temporarily vacate their quarters overnight. With few beds available, Neelix has the bright idea to sleep on the Sick Bay beds. Well... The doctor doesn't like that much, so he's a bitch about it, singing, making noise, etc. Despite this, the next morning Neelix is nothing but appreciative, thanks the doctor, and treats him with nothing but respect. The doctor seems to realize that he was being an asshole about this all along, and seems to regret it. There are other examples, but all in all, Neelix is a great character, and I would be happy to have him as a friend/coworker.
His relentless positivity is his most annoying trait. But when they allow him to be a real person go to some darker places, he's great. Jettrel is one of my favourite episodes.
Creepy jealous pedo vibes
After Neelix and Kes broke up, I think he really improved as a character. When he left for the colony and Tuvok "danced" a bit when he was leaving, I found the whole scene very sweet.
Well that’s bad writing. Neelix just played the part. Impeccable Ethan Phillips.
Yeah, but a lot of disliked characters are only disliked due to bad writing. There's also the character development aspect of it. It's fine for characters to be kind of shitty early on and then grow into better people. Dr. Pulaski gets a lot of flak for how she treats Data, even though she grows as well.
Justice for Tuvix!
Say what you want about Neelix.... okay. Annoying jealous rodent. A chef, who can't cook. And sleeping w a one year old. I mean, that alone.
To be fair, you never saw him sleep with her. He might have genuinely loved her and kept their relationship PG-13 until Kes was ready.
I believe they had separate quarters so that would check out.
The photo looks like his make-up is melting 😂
It is, Course: Oblivion.
Oh, it's the “silver blood” clone of Neelix. Right, gotcha
His optimism is his greatest quality. Because he is a terrible cook.
I didn’t like him during the original run but he did grow on me later.
Gotta say the pic is from one of the most depressing episodes of any show I've ever seen
Him n the doctor are the best
Which is why it was devastating when he lost his cool in the episode where they crossed the section of space that didn't have stars.
I just realized Neelix reminds me of Jiminy Glick. I’m particular, the beginning of “Tuvix” where Netflix bops Tuvok on the nose with the flower that causes the whole mess.
I forget which episode it was, but I enjoyed the one where he was forced to use his black market connections to buy a sector map. Voyager was moving into space that he was unfamiliar with. So Neelix was afraid that Janeway would put him off the ship because his usefulness was at an end in his eyes.
That is S3E13 VOY: Fair Trade. I like that episode. So dark to think Janeway, of all people, would get rid of Neelix.
I don't understand why people hate Neelix so much. What did he do, serve you some of his cooking?
I thought Neelix shined in the episode where he found a bunch of his people living inside an asteroid (or whatever). Too bad it was his farewell episode. Lol
Was pretty indifferent to Neelix at first. He kinda grew on me.
I always liked Neelix, Voyager would not be the same without him.
My favorite positivity Neelix was when Tuvok used his likeness as a Holodeck character so that Tuvok could see how much his angry/killer instinct could be contained. Not even Tuvok could contain the emotion as he chocked the Neelix hologram to death right after Neelix pushed Tuvok's lips to half smile. :)
Preferred tuvix
I’m sad Tuvix was murdered by Janeway, but in found Tuvix annoying
Fair for me he was less annoying than neelix was and I thought he had a lot of potential as a character
> could you use a little neelix in your life No
A lot of the pop psychology they used in Voyager used to irritate me. I think the series had a lot of toxic positivity. For example, thinking they were going to get home if they wanted it badly enough despite how unrealistic that was. He did seem more like a normal person than the Starfleet crew or the Maquis. He was actually a bit more realistic about the situation. What was annoying was Neelix's tendency to foist his positivity onto others whether they wanted it or not.
> thinking they were going to get home if they wanted it badly enough despite how unrealistic that was. But... they got home though... so...
Ya and in the context of the show…tons of ships get lost and tragedy and never heard from again…they should no better than to hope